While I've found lots of tutorials regarding the technical aspect of mapping (entities, making functioning ladders, etc.), I can't find any tutorials regarding making terrain look realistic (there's a link at MardyMouse but it's dead), how many textures I should be using per map, etc. Basic stuff, really. I guess trial and error would solve my problem, but I'd rather know the basics before I start putting serious time into a map, then discover that I made a horrible mistake, due to my ignorance. :)

So, if anyone could answer these questions, I'd be very grateful.

1) How do you go about making realistic terrain with such basic shapes? I'm used to modelling characters in Maya, and am more acquainted with NURBs modelling over polygonal. Mapping is just another form of modelling, really, and so far, I.. well, I suck at it. I can't even make a nice looking crater, or a pile of rubble.

2) What's the best way to do typical tasks, such as making the outside of a building have say, a brick texture, and the inside have a wallpaper texture? Do I just open up the Texture Application, click on the face I want to texture, and select my texture? Or should I make a new brush for the "inside" wall, and put it up against the outside wall?

3) If you use a lot of Vertex Manipulation to create objects in "not linear" shapes (block, sphere, etc.), does it cause massive framerate loss?

4) Regarding the framerate loss, what are some of the more typical things that cause this? What should a newbie mapper avoid like the plague?

5) Regarding the "ground" level of the map... Is it best to make one giant square / rectangle with your "ground" texture, and then build onto that, or is it best to make the ground in smaller sections, and manipulate each section individually? Or is it best to make one giant square, use clipping to cut it into type pieces you want, and then work with those?


I realize that somewhere in these forums, or on the net, these questions have been answered (maybe). At any rate, the Mapping section seems to be kind of cluttered and unordered, and if my answers are here, I can't find 'em.

Again, if anyone could answer my questions, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

1) How do you go about making realistic terrain with such basic shapes? I'm used to modelling characters in Maya, and am more acquainted with NURBs modelling over polygonal. Mapping is just another form of modelling, really, and so far, I.. well, I suck at it. I can't even make a nice looking crater, or a pile of rubble.


Use triangles, and modify them with vertex manipulation.
Triangles wont give you concave brushes or any of that nasty stuff, and can give you excellent results if you're willing to put some time into it.
Tutorial :
http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.php?page=tutorials&id=16


2) What's the best way to do typical tasks, such as making the outside of a building have say, a brick texture, and the inside have a wallpaper texture? Do I just open up the Texture Application, click on the face I want to texture, and select my texture? Or should I make a new brush for the "inside" wall, and put it up against the outside wall?


Just use the Texture Application tool. Quick and easy :)


3) If you use a lot of Vertex Manipulation to create objects in "not linear" shapes (block, sphere, etc.), does it cause massive framerate loss?


That really depends!

If, by clipping the brush, you create additional faces (surfaces), then that will add to w_poly.

If the "new and exotic" surface is slanted or angled, and touching up against another brush, face splitting will occur.

Just use good judgement, and see what works :)


4) Regarding the framerate loss, what are some of the more typical things that cause this? What should a newbie mapper avoid like the plague?


Extensive particle effects in high-activity areas.

Poorly planned vis-blocking (engine sees more than the player)

Too many models in view at once (adds up to e_poly)


5) Regarding the "ground" level of the map... Is it best to make one giant square / rectangle with your "ground" texture, and then build onto that, or is it best to make the ground in smaller sections, and manipulate each section individually? Or is it best to make one giant square, use clipping to cut it into type pieces you want, and then work with those?


I "piece it together" myself, but the end result is pretty much the same. You can add more detail to the ground if you construct it with pieces, although the 2d views in the editor might get a bit confusing :)



Again, if anyone could answer my questions, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

No problem :D

Thanks for the response Instacrome. :) There's a few things I'm not following.

First, when you say triangles, what exactly do you mean? I'm assuming you mean making say, a block, and using the clip tool to create separate triangles, and then toy with the vertices of each. If that's what you meant, then we're on the same page.

You also mentioned "vis-blocking", where the engine sees more than the player does.

In short, I've no clue at all as to what you're talking about. Could you elaborate please?

Sure.

Triangles is...well, a triangular brush. 3 sides, instead of the normal four. You can create it by vertex manipulation, clipping or selecting "Wedge" in the Objects field in Hammer.
With these wedges, you create your terrain, by manipulating the vertices. Takes quite a bit of time, but its worth it in the end.

Vis-blocking.
Vis stands for Visibility, one of the four calculations done on your .map file to make it into a playable level, during compile.
Basically, what it does is, it estimates what the player should be able to see depending on where he is standing at any given time.
English is not my first language, so I don't really want to get into a too long explanation.

Heres a good article with some explanations and tips for beginning mappers :
http://www.slackiller.com/tommy14/rspeeds.htm

Hopefully that will help. If you have any more questions, I'd be glad to answer them :)

Thanks again, and thanks for the offer regarding future questions. I'm sure I'll be back to this thread at some point or another. :)

I highly recommend the triangle method for making nice looking ground, and vertex manipulation is the easiest way to do it. However, don't make the triangles too small, or you'll overload the clipnodes on your map(a rough definition of that is all the space the player can be in). If there are too many triangles, the game slices up the space you can walk in invisibly mushc like the clip tool does to brushes...and with lots and lots of triangles this can be really bad for your map. So just use a moderate amount and you'll be fine :p

I learned this lesson the hard way :p