Is it possible to clip a crater so the it slopes downwards? i've tried it before and I get problems with it when I check to see if I have any problems on my map.

Heres what I'm trying to do:

I'm making a beach map and want the beach to slope upwards abit toward the shingle, but everytime I try clipping my whole beach to make the angle, I get problems with the craters.
Or would I be better off clipping the beach but not the craters then just use the vertex tool and dropping the edge of the craters down to the same angel as the rest of the beach?

heres the solution. DONT CLIP AT ALL. Seriously, the clip tool is evil. Unless your pro, dont use it. Instead, make your own craters by making a whole bunch of tringles and connecting them together.

The clip tool isn't EVIL!!!!! in the slightest It's just VERY ANNOYINGLY HELPFULL.

when using the cliptool its respahes the brush for you so its not invalid, I mean its just giving you a hand along isnt it. DAMN THING!!!! usually I want to clip the brush to fix it.

to the CARVE tool that one is EEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as to actually helping you.

use the vertex edit tool to drop the edges to match the beach slope. Watch what you do, but craters are maily traingles so it should eb asy to avoid Invalid Solid Structures. make sure the beach slope is a nice reguaulr slope like "down"x"left" 1x2 or 1x3 or 2x3 or 1x4 etc

Yer I've noticed how evil that dam clip tool is.

I've semi fixed the problem any way, I've clipped the non cratered areas, and are using the vertex tool to lower my craters to match the slope. Its a slow tedious job but its going to be worth it in the end ;)

What exactly IS clipping, and where is the clip tool and how do u use it?

Originally posted by TheNomad
What exactly IS clipping, and where is the clip tool and how do u use it? The Clip tool is that button that looks like a block with a chunk lopped off of it. What it does is allow you to draw a line through a brush (or set of brushes) that adds a division along that line. There's 3 modes for it that change each time you push the button while you have it selected, one deletes everything above your clip line, the other deletes everything below, the 3rd simply cuts everything along the line, leaving both parts like they were cut through with a sword.

Oh yeah, and none of the tools are evil if you know how to use them. Even carve can be useful. You obviously know it's a ***** to carve a cylinder or complex shape out of a wall, but have you tried isolating that shape? Put a block around it that barely fits it, then carve that block out of the wall. NOW carve your object out of the block. Less fracturing, less problems. And Clip makes all your brushes valid, how is that evil?

Originally posted by Cheeto
Oh yeah, and none of the tools are evil if you know how to use them. Even carve can be useful. You obviously know it's a ***** to carve a cylinder or complex shape out of a wall, but have you tried isolating that shape? Put a block around it that barely fits it, then carve that block out of the wall. NOW carve your object out of the block. Less fracturing, less problems. And Clip makes all your brushes valid, how is that evil?

actuall Cheeto if you really did know what you were doing you wouldn't be using that method, its really likely to create no integer vertecies. you simply vertex edit triangles so they are like spokes off the side.

if you know what your doing the carve tool is completly useless, all it does is run through the clip tool along each side of the brush.

never get used to using the carve tools, never. carving is the way of the devil

learn how to use vertex manipulation

Yeah but vertex manipulation is a bad idea for new mappers. They're better off learning to use carve and clip properly. And clip is still handy even when you're more advanced.

Originally posted by Cheeto
Yeah but vertex manipulation is a bad idea for new mappers. They're better off learning to use carve and clip properly. And clip is still handy even when you're more advanced.

I couldnt disagree more. Forget carve even existed. Learn the right way from the beginning, which is to view everything as triangles and then manipulate them into looking as how you want them. When you know how to do that, and have the patient to do so, then kow the basics of hl mapping...

Clip on the otherhand is a very usefull tool in the hands of skilled mapper...

Originally posted by Kehldon
I couldnt disagree more. Forget carve even existed. Learn the right way from the beginning, which is to view everything as triangles and then manipulate them into looking as how you want them. When you know how to do that, and have the patient to do so, then kow the basics of hl mapping...

Clip on the otherhand is a very usefull tool in the hands of skilled mapper... Learn how to carve the right way from the begining and you'll have a handy tool. But tell them to make everything from triangles and now you've made mapping take at least twice as long, more likely 3 times as long. Terrain and complex objects are the only real uses for triangle mapping I see, and most of the time the complex objects are better off being a model anyways.

chetto yes complex objects are usually better off as a model, but have you ever though about whats supposed ot clip them :P

I ditto forgetting about carve. If your having trouble figuring out the clip lines needed I'll let you carve for a guide, but you better improve the brush work or there will be trouble. Vertex manipulation isn't as hard as everyone says it is. just remember to keep all the vertecies on the same plane. to help visualise it, if you couldnt fit the vertecies for a face all on one very stiff and thin peice of carboard your doing it wrong.

Originally posted by Cheeto
Learn how to carve the right way from the begining and you'll have a handy tool. But tell them to make everything from triangles and now you've made mapping take at least twice as long, more likely 3 times as long. Terrain and complex objects are the only real uses for triangle mapping I see, and most of the time the complex objects are better off being a model anyways.

I agrea with you on the model part. But when it comes to mapping, it requires patient, sure it might take longer build stuff up from triangles, but If you know how to, you will save alot time correcting and rebuilding stuff that didnt work after you have carved it.

As I said, patient and visualisation is what makes a mapper good, IMHO, well perhaps a little artistic feeling too then :)

You'll also get less frustration out of vertex manipulation than you will out of using carve and having wierd stuff happen as a result. I've been there done that, and learning vertex manipulation is the one true path to enlightenment ....

Originally posted by Angry Beaver
chetto yes complex objects are usually better off as a model, but have you ever though about whats supposed ot clip them :P Huh? You mean the clip BRUSH? They're different things, mano. :p

A model miust be clipped with brushes if it is to be solid in the game. If the model is complex you must make (relatively) complex brushes to clip it. Therefore you may require the skills of vertex manipulation to make these clip brushes rather than relying on the carve tool. This is what I believe the Beaver was trying to point out to you.

Originally posted by Angry Beaver
actuall Cheeto if you really did know what you were doing you wouldn't be using that method, its really likely to create no integer vertecies. you simply vertex edit triangles so they are like spokes off the side.


Tat's why pple clip using the start end points located directly on the grid dots, so you won't get floating pt numbers.

CLIP is ok. Sometimes, if you want to save the no. of brushes used, you can clip a solid instead of relying on too many brushes. Of course, you must already know what you want beforehand. If you are whipping something randomly up, then i guess creating everything out of simple blocks with vertexes altered would do.

Also, what about those houses with roofs and a miter corner turn? Try clipping a house at a direct 45 degree angles (with start/end pts on snapped to grid). Then, create an exact copy, flip and mirror, and miter edge stickiii to it!! Much faster way to handle things. Won't produce any errors. And the vertices are still located snapped nicely on the grid still. Of course, after doing this, further manipulation on the house is not very easy. Then, again, i think simple readjusting of the length/breath of each segment can still be done via vertex manipulation, and that won't produce any errors. Just jusst just don't use the resize, rotate, or shear tool as that gives u every little control and is relative resizing among mulitple solids/angles, resulting in inconsistency and possibly errors on more complex solids!!!! In fact, i use Vertex Manipulation for resizing more often comapred to the default resize/shear handles, as vertex manipulation focuses on absolute rearrangement of vertices!!!! Of course, you don't vertex manipulate an isolated vertex....(this ain't Milkshape 3d where everything is traignle based) Rather, you vertex manipulate a bunch of vertices that are meant to be together.(draw a selection box round the required vertices and hit ENTER, then move them in a single straight absolute X, Y or Z direction) . If you do this, coplanar errors will *always* be avoided.

There is also a proper way of carving. YOu don't carve a smaller solid into a larger solid as that would fragment the larger solid. You carve a solid of the same size on another solid of the same size....and things would usually be fine that way.

whoa thats a good idea...

btw: glidias, what map is that in your sig?

Im sorry i started this argument :(

but when i was a noob mapper i always used carve until i realised it was evil (most of the time) and i find vertex manip quite easy and use it often.

both tools are handy if you know how to use them correctly.