Yes, a DoD map with Vehicles in it. Some love the idea, some hate it, and some (like me) worry about the lag. Seeing how there are so many different ideas on the concept of vehicles in Day of Defeat, I'd like your input on how you would like it done, especially those who have played similar DoD maps in the past.

My level is based on the Red Ball Express, a massive Allied convoy route that took tons of supplies day in and day out to the quickly advancing front lines after the invasion at Normandy.

My idea is to have a convoy of trucks start at one end of a winding road that passes through a forest or hedgerows or something to reduce r_speeds and provide cover. The Allied objective is to get enough trucks through this dangerous stretch of road where the Axis are waiting with Panzershrecks to ambush them.

The debated issue is: How to implement the trucks. I am thinking of 2 ways.
[list=1]
The trucks would be func_tracktrains so players can make them go and stop, but they would follow a predefined path.
The trucks are still func_tracktrains, but they are not user controllable.
[/list=1]
Any suggestions on any part of my map would be welcome.

sounds good, make some open top and some closed top, would be great to pop a schrek round into the back of one of the closed tops :D it sounds great i think you should do it, it would be a refreshing change.

hmm, moving trucks, i had an idea once about them which im trying to work out atm. i found out its great fun sitting in the back of a truck seeing the road moving along, driving around the map. i think it would be great fun but extreemly hard to make. i would say try to make the convoy stop at a point, and when u give the order, they move on to the next. i hope u can make this map, if u need any help, i could try ;)

I am idea for having the vehicles to stop is maybe a gate...

just an idea

All of the trucks will be open cab because you can't have glass in a func_tracktrain. I think I'll have most of the Deuce and a Halves be full of supplies with a covered bed, and probably only one of the trucks have an open bed to carry troops in. I'm sure the allies will sit in the back and shoot at the axis in the bushes, but a well places Panzer round would take them out easily enough...I might even put in a German Messerschmitt that would strafe the convoy.

Keep the comments coming, I want to hear reasons why it would work and reasons why it wouldn't so I can get the gameplay worked right.

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
All of the trucks will be open cab because you can't have glass in a func_tracktrain
Sure you can have glass. Ever hear of movewith? Thank god for Spirit.

I like the idea, if you can do it without uping the lag, its a good idea. However, making them user controlled doesn't seem like a good idea, I'd rather make them move on their own, but slowly, giving the germans a limited but fair amount of time to destroy them.

movewith never seemed to work right for me, I tried almost this exact idea and couldn't get the glass to move. You can try your luck at it though, maybe its just my wierd computer.

Anyway, I was thinking that maybe you could make the trucks models, rather than having a brush based train that might be more laggy. This would create some problems as far as clipping though, but I'm just throwing it out there. You could have a func_breakable inside the model to allow you to blow it up.

I've thought of making the trucks models, and then I could have the env_model or whatever "move with" the invisible func_tracktrain clip. The thing with using the "move with" command is that I don't think it rotates with the object it is linked to; in other words the invisible clip would rotate, but the model would not. I'm not entirely sure that it is true, but worth looking into.

These comments are great, keep them coming!

Hmm...

http://clan.hot.ee/clan20ss/untitled.JPG

Allies start in moving truck at Allied spawn. Allies can not exit the truck until they enter the "ambush zone" (between 1st and 2nd tonnels). Axis can not go trough tonnels or over the cliffs. At both axis spawns there are Panzerschrecks. The gameplay should be para of course. Axis win if they eliminate the truck and whole allied team. Allies win if the truck or atleast 2 members of the team reach the safe zone (beyond the second tonnel).

That's an interesting layout, Nucleus. I was thinking of having the Allies start at a camp, get in the trucks and start driving, and they have to make it to another allied camp. The tunnels make an interesting start and end point.

I'm making this map for the retail version of DoD, and they don't have para rounds anymore, so I have to figure out how to do respawns well, for both the Axis and the Allies. It's too bad, this map would work perfectly with para rounds. I think that I can do an advancing spawn for the Axis so they can keep up with the convoy, but I'm not sure what to do with the Allies. Maybe I'll have a few Half-Tracks they can spawn in?

Have you thought about progressive spawns and a short round timer (presuming the option's still in the FGD)? Four minutes or so for the convoy to get from one end of the map to the other sounds about right.

I'd just like to say that htat is a very original and god layout, good thinking.

mr. me i like your sig :cool:

Sounds like a great idea just so long as the trucks arent driveable. But make the objectives just destroy the trucks not the whole allied team. And keep those r_speeds down!

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
Yes, a DoD map with Vehicles in it. Some love the idea, some hate it, and some (like me) worry about the lag. Seeing how there are so many different ideas on the concept of vehicles in Day of Defeat, I'd like your input on how you would like it done, especially those who have played similar DoD maps in the past.

My level is based on the Red Ball Express, a massive Allied convoy route that took tons of supplies day in and day out to the quickly advancing front lines after the invasion at Normandy.

My idea is to have a convoy of trucks start at one end of a winding road that passes through a forest or hedgerows or something to reduce r_speeds and provide cover. The Allied objective is to get enough trucks through this dangerous stretch of road where the Axis are waiting with Panzershrecks to ambush them.

The debated issue is: How to implement the trucks. I am thinking of 2 ways.
[list=1]
The trucks would be func_tracktrains so players can make them go and stop, but they would follow a predefined path.
The trucks are still func_tracktrains, but they are not user controllable.
[/list=1]
Any suggestions on any part of my map would be welcome.
I've been planning out how I'd do a Kasserine Pass map, where the Allies have to destroy TWO moving Tiger CONVOYS(about 6 tanks in total). So far, I've got this:
Get an animator to make the model you have with a driving animation, then just put it on a train track and have a 1 unit {blue textured trigger where someone spawns to start it moving right at the start(I'm not sure if there's any other way to have it follow the track at start)

Sounds like a real nice idea

well, i was working this thing out, trying to get a small convoy, but i ran into some problems. i learned its better to use models instead of prefabs, prefabs will raise r_speeds tons higher. i have experimented this with a large figure 8 road. it was a pretty well.. it moved as i wanted and did all i expected it too. now im going to experiment iwth a full convoy, a sherman, 2 trucks, a jeep or two and maybe other vehicles. ill report my experiments and maybe post a .bsp / .rmf for u guys if u need help :)

I'm not very good at mapping, I just pick up information here and there and play around in Worldcraft:D

Definatly use the movewith on some models, and use the func_train to clip the object. If the model dosnt rotate here is where it could go wrong. you will have to get an animator to include a rotating animation. This will really force you to simplify the road layout. as the corner approaches your going to have to sue the "trigger on pass" to animate the model. now you may be saying great, but what about multiple corners. tis is eithier where you give up or get srious into entity working. you will need to do 1 of 2 things.

1- treat the truck like a monster
monster_furniture alows you to treta a model like a peice of furniture, it has no AI no nothing its just a plug for a model really. but whats the point you say? you can use aiscripted_sequence to activate animations on monster_furniture. do i need to explain the rest knowing that function is just easy working. however this entity isnt in DOD, but its in normal HL.

2- play about with LOTSA env_renders
basically have a tank model for every turn and sue env_renders to switch between them so you ahve the right tnak visible for the turn animation. youd still need to trigger the animation on the env_model, basicaly far to many entitys.

so far, ive made a deuce and a half made by tolchok move impressivley on a S track system i set up. i also made a plane attempt to bomb the truck but was a little too early, the truck realizes the crater ahead, slows a bit, turns a detour and continues back on the track. only problem i have with my fun_tracktrain is this. this is how it looks like before it(truck) is triggered
http://www.mappingfront.com/azncoolteen88/1.JPG
and this is after its triggered
http://www.mappingfront.com/azncoolteen88/2.JPG

*edit* typon on links

Well, i played desert crisis, and players being housed in vehicles tend to have a rather jerky pulsating ride for some strange reason.

The only good situation i saw when it came to train vehicles (and riding it) was in Counter-strike cs_railroad and HL singleplayer. For sOme strange reason, the movement was pretty smooth. The siege APC was fairly smoothly as well....though of course you can't forget the tking, n00b drivers, cliff fallings, etc. lol.

Another thing, most vehicles have threads or wheels that need to be animated. How do you animate it?

YOu set multiple entities of the same env_model wheels/threads .mdls with different playback speeds. You use a multi-manager (smart edit off) to control exactly how you want the wheels/threads to screech to a halt by off-ing/on-ing it's respective Masters. Of course, if your convoy is moving very slowly, you don't necessarily need so much env_models of different playback speeds. All you may need is 2 env_models and 1 master to control which of the two env_model appears.

YOu can have a way of telling the convoy to stop after it gets ambushed, or tell the convoy to retreat out and hopefully they have enough survivng vehicles/supplies left intact. This is inspired from the wargame Sniper!.

Originally posted by IR -inw-
mr. me i like your sig :cool:

dankuwel IR, the map is urs right, jagd.

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
That's an interesting layout, Nucleus. I was thinking of having the Allies start at a camp, get in the trucks and start driving, and they have to make it to another allied camp. The tunnels make an interesting start and end point.

I'm making this map for the retail version of DoD, and they don't have para rounds anymore, so I have to figure out how to do respawns well, for both the Axis and the Allies. It's too bad, this map would work perfectly with para rounds. I think that I can do an advancing spawn for the Axis so they can keep up with the convoy, but I'm not sure what to do with the Allies. Maybe I'll have a few Half-Tracks they can spawn in?

i always thought para would still be in, just not on any of the official maps... fuzzdad is doing para_raiders you know...

Wow guys, these comments are great! This helps me a ton.

I'll see if the "move with" will work correctly so I can use models instead of prefabs, even though Tolchok's Deuce & a Half is excellent. I think this will work nicely in the DoD retail becuase you can have transparent textures, but I'm not sure glass will work. If anyone out there knows where good Allied vehicle models are, I'd sure be grateful.

Here's what I've got so far: There's an allied convoy with 4 Deuces and 2 HalfTracks. The allies will spawn in the HalfTracks, or do a progressive spawn along the road. Axis will do a progressive spawn out in the bush just a little ahead of the convoy. Allied objective is to get 2 of the 4 Deuces to the next allied camp, and the Axis will try to stop them with their Panzershreks.

The convoy will NOT be drivable, and there will not be a timer because the convoy will not stop unless it's destroyed. There will be a German Messerschmitt that will strafe the road every once in a while, posing a definate threat to Allied soldiers walking on the road, but we'll leave blowing up stuff to the Axis soldiers :D

And concerning whether para is still in, from what I know you will be able to use the Paratrooper models, but the rounds will be regular DoD reinforcement spawning. You can specify how fast each team respawns, but I want to keep this playable and fun, and not too hard.

Yes you can make models movewith a func_train and you can have it stop at a certain point untill a wall or a gate is blown open then continue on its route you can also have a func_breakable that moves with the func_train and after being hit a certain amount of times it will end the round and give the attacking team a score

Daft if you need any serious enityt help come to me, i tihnk I've devised a plan for entitys that would work bueatifully, eays to map and a heck of a lot knowing what your doing and it would really work well. I do need to tets it though, but i have a backup for ever idea.

what happens if the axis blow up the first vehicle in the convoy? will the convoy stop? or will the vehicle disapear?

will the allies that are riding in the vehicles die in the case of their vehicle exploding?

will the axis be able to enter the vehicles? ( i can just see an MG jumping into a duece and a half and setting up to desemate any allied trying to get back in the truck)

also how many hits from a panzersreck (sp?) will it take to destroy each vehicle? and how many panzershreks will be lying around the map? will the panzershreks re-appear on the ground after a time (like if some idiot grabs ahold of one and wastes all its ammo on a tree... or if you try and hit the trucks but miss.... so you will need a few... but not too many or the whole axis team will just run around rocketing)

just a few questions too look at that could be potential problems.

Originally posted by Techn9ne
what happens if the axis blow up the first vehicle in the convoy? will the convoy stop? or will the vehicle disapear?

will the allies that are riding in the vehicles die in the case of their vehicle exploding?

will the axis be able to enter the vehicles? ( i can just see an MG jumping into a duece and a half and setting up to desemate any allied trying to get back in the truck)

also how many hits from a panzersreck (sp?) will it take to destroy each vehicle? and how many panzershreks will be lying around the map? will the panzershreks re-appear on the ground after a time (like if some idiot grabs ahold of one and wastes all its ammo on a tree... or if you try and hit the trucks but miss.... so you will need a few... but not too many or the whole axis team will just run around rocketing)

just a few questions too look at that could be potential problems.

Well it would not have to be a full convoy it could be one vehicle that the team must defend like a supply truck or something and you could easily set up a teleoprt system that would not allow the axis to enter the vehicle

I was thinking about doing this type of map a while ago but never got around to it its good to see someone is finaly doing it

You might even be able to get a model with an animation for the wheels moving which would make it more realistic and maybe even add a partical emmiter to the rear of the vehicle to simulate dust being kicked up

Techn9ne, thanks for your great questions, these are excactly the kind of things I wanted brought up. Also thanks to all the other people that have helped me so far, especially the ones testing out the entities (NC17, Angry Beaver, azncoolteen, etc). I can't get DoD to run on my comp at home, so I have to map in HL mode, then work out all the DoD entities at school. Thanks for telling me the "move with" will work, it will simplify things greatly. Does the model rotate with the train as it rounds a corner? That's my biggest worry.

As for your questions, Techn9ne, I think I'll make it take only one or two Panzershrek hits to take out a Deuce, it depends on how they act in the next version, which comes out TODAY!!!:D Anyway, when a truck gets destroyed it will trigger a path_trackchange and the rest of the convoy will drive around it. I'll have the trucks spaced far enough apart that they won't crash into each other. I'm also thinking of placing the Allied spawn inside of armored Half-Tracks so the Axis cant just keep killing the Allies as they spawn. This means that the Half-Tracks probably won't be destroyable, but I might change that later.

Tolchok's Deuce prefab is too tall to jump into, so no one can get in once they leave, but I have placed a Model Request in the MSA forum and a few people have offered to work on it, so I'll have to request that they make the vehicles too tall to enter from the ground. I've also requested that they add animations for the moving tires and such.

Again, thanks for all your help, I started this map two months ago by myself and didn't get very far, with all your help I'm sure we'll have a great level to give to the community!