Hi all,

Just thought I would share with you guys' a map I'm almost done with. I troll the boards quite often, but don't really post much...so you may not recognize my handle.

I'm hoping to have a playable b1 version this weekend...if I can just get the lighting and HDR at settings I'm happy with (lighting is such a pain!) :D

TODO:
- Lighting w/HDR
- Clean up textures
- More furniture inside (using default DoD models)
- Another pass on the sound
- Overview
- Skybox (using Argentan currently)
- Possibly some Normal Maps for the cobble texs
- More frost!

Any comments are welcome...


http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale01.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale02.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale03.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale04.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale05.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale06.jpg

Nice looking buildings etc, good work on those.

my only gripes are the fact the map feels and looks to clean, maybe use some stain overlay/decdals etc. Also the light from the fires look to red to me, try making them a lighter orange?

Looking good. I like the use of topography to prevent the level from appearing too flat.

I like the burning houses. And the architecture is lovely!

Wow, I love the architecture and the level change.

2 comments that I have seen before.

First, all of the architecture seems to have the same texture. You may want to vary that up a bit to give players some landmarks.

Second, the fire in the building is really cool looking, but where's the smoke?

I look foward to playing this when released.

Second, the fire in the building is really cool looking, but where's the smoke?Ditto, and also fire casts off an yellow-orange light, not red. Right now it looks like a disco.

Your houses are too clean...they burn!!! lol

Ditto, and also fire casts off an yellow-orange light, not red. Right now it looks like a disco."You should be dancing, yeah!"

add to the TODO list:

-more outdoor details (models like broken stones,wood ... )
-Roof Windows/chimneys/broken burning roofs
-maybe some Fog
-more phone cables
-really more dirty wall decals
-maybe replace the street with displacement brushes,
to use a nice blend texture
-3d sky?

And a little thing to the use of the snowroof blend.
The snow slips down on big roofs, thus is nothing above.
(also wrong in orginal maps like dod_kalt/colmar)
http://www.salzburg.gv.at/prn/pic-sir_en_e5_oeff_akt_tipp_schneedach.gif

All good suggestions...thx for that. I guess my plan is to release a b1 version this friday night/sat morning, then work on all the feedback and have a final version early August.

Some more sceens:

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale07.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale08.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale09.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale10.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale11.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale12.jpg

Great architecture! Its good to see a talented new mapper come into the mix.

suggestions:

-make the fire less red.
-small details like signs/posters/trash
-large overlays to create a realistic sense of wear
-more variety in textures(on roofs especially)
-maybe you could try using the skybox from dod_coire, made by nave.

looks great so far! i cant wait to see the layout and how it performs.

Posted a new thread in the Release section with a download link...

http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73959

Missed this post. I am checking it out now.

throw in a red brick building for shock value, use color correction, more vehicles, falling snow :P

you're missing alot of great opportunities but I like what I see so far. i'll get some more indepth crit if you care to read it

I just downloaded and had a run through this level. I agree with the others, the contruction and brushwork is really amazing. I'll be very interested to see when the level is less clean and more detailed.

But the two things which stand out to me as far as needing improvement are:

- Holes in the sides of buildings. I'm not sure if these are just place-holders for now, but I think they could be sexy'ed up a bit. It looks basically like a hole clipped in a wall, doesn't look natural. Maybe some displacements would help the effect. Or, use the clip/vertex manip tools to cut some wall pieces, and then the interior of the wall can have some more rounded rubble made from displacements (I hope that last part made sense, but if you look at the stock maps, for example jagd with the hole at the back of allied spawn house, you will probably see the style I mean)

- I'm not a fan of the cobble/snow texture on the main street. It looks fake to me.

Other than that this level is pretty impressive.

Thx for the comments guys...I'm definitely taking notes :D

@FMPONE: If you've got more crit I'll def take it into consideration. I agree with you that much more can be done.

@Woj: I'm glad you like what I've done so far. More detail to come, but I was worried about the framerate initially so I kinda held back on going crazy with stuff. About the cobble tex in the main street, I think if I made some of the street into displacements, and used the alpha blending tool to add more snow that *might* help. If not I might just redo that one.

-falling snow
-use alpha blending on the streets and piles of snow displacements to further the illusion of settled snow
-currently you make a roof, apply some blended snow to everything but the outsides, on every building. That looks really weak, add in some spots of less intensity inside the big white blob and generally spare some buildings more than others. No snow fall is ever perfectly equal
-if you have a building with a flat surface with no wall detail other than windows, that building is NOT COMPLETE, add in some decals, scorch marks, war type stuff. Think World War Two, not Pristine European Village.
-in this environment you MUST utilize the color red, brick buildings, etc. as well as ADVERTISEMENT DECALS. They are your friend. Use them generously, they are a welcome source of color
-power lines. this map lacks then, judging by the screens. Add them in by the bushel, they do wonders for detail and they are a little factor that adds realism
-you have extensive issues with tiling, such as on the walls on this shot: http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale03.jpg

if you see a texture repeating, you know you're in trouble. You have a number of solutions, add in a wall break such as a pillar, add in decals, up the texture scale (be careful with this). Take your pick.
-No two buildings near eachother should have an identical texture for the outer walls. If you get to here you know you've ****ed up, don't just make buildings. Make a post office. Make a cafe. Make a government building. Things have to have purpose to be memorable.
-Smoke. Smoke out of chimneys. Smoke out of vehicles. Smoke.
-The skybox texture does not work with your map. Choose a more interesting lighting scheme, bright blue, night time blue. You have to work on this and put alot of time in it, even choosing a Valve env light is a better option to the current sky you're using

I rarely go through bothering to do map crits because most people's maps are just not designed to be art or even pretty, but this map has some really cool architecture (I like the church the most) and if you implement what I've mentioned it'll be solid as hell

@FMPONE: Thx for giving me some further focus. Right now I'm working at making a new 2D sky...although I'm kinda hesitant to use a night sky. I tried a night sky first, and while it looked good (with all the street lights on), I felt it was in the best interest of gameplay to keep the environment somewhat light (early morning, late afternoon). A good custom sky with snow capped mountains will go a long way I think.

I also made the ground texs more realistic looking. I turned most of the street (and some other ground cobble) into displacements, and used the alpha blend tool to help give more of a frosty feel. That also helped the existing snow displacements (on top of the ground/street) to blend in better. I looked at the .vmt files from the official DoD maps to see how they did their cobble/snow blending (same with the roofs). It's made a BIG difference...and also helped to break up the repeating texture problem (for the ground at least).

Just wanted to update this thread with a link to the final version of this map. I could have done so much more with the map, but I decided to call it final, and move on to my next project. This is my first source map (I did a couple other maps for Half Life 1 years ago), and I forgot just how much fun and addictive mapping can be. Anyways, I hope some of you guys' give it a shot and have fun!

Final Release Thread (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?t=76474)

Download (http://www.dvdlevels.net/downloads/dod_frostvale.zip)

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale01.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z28/dvdevore/dod_frostvale03.jpg

An accessible bell tower would be awesome.

This town is seriously missing trees. :p

It's a bit sad you rushed to call this final, because it still looks like a POTENTIAL good map. All the additions people have given you advice on adding were actually very EASY and QUICK to add and would've made this map WAY more nicer... :\

@Dash: I can't say that I disagree with you, but it just got to the point where I couldn't really add a whole lot more detail because of the wide-open nature of the map without causing a hit in performance. Anyways, I would hope that you still download it and give it a try....it's pretty fun! I promise that my next map will be more detailed, and better planned out from the beginning :p

Would you release the VMF for this map so I could have a look around the map, if I ever re-released it then don't worry I would give you and Valve credit. =)

This town is seriously missing trees. :p

It's a bit sad you rushed to call this final, because it still looks like a POTENTIAL good map. All the additions people have given you advice on adding were actually very EASY and QUICK to add and would've made this map WAY more nicer... :\

Perhaps he'll come back to it and make a frostvale2.

@zonetropper5: Maybe I'll release it in a bit....not just yet. If/when I do, I'll pm you in-case you still want it.

@Cpl.Punishment: That's a good idea....maybe I will do a second version that has the village bombed out in ruins....more detail and such. That way there would be 2 choices....the first one being the FPS friendly one, and the latter being the more detailed and interesting one....but both with the same gameplay, because I thought that turned out pretty good :D

Multiple versions of a good map is a wonderful thing. Go for it.

@zonetropper5: Maybe I'll release it in a bit....not just yet. If/when I do, I'll pm you in-case you still want it.

@Cpl.Punishment: That's a good idea....maybe I will do a second version that has the village bombed out in ruins....more detail and such. That way there would be 2 choices....the first one being the FPS friendly one, and the latter being the more detailed and interesting one....but both with the same gameplay, because I thought that turned out pretty good :D

No problem man, once you feel ready then PM like you said, I would just like to look around the map and maybe change and add things. May also help me with the mapping as well, there are some things which I just don't get how you do properly.

Just a quick update...I am working on an update to this map (which I hinted at), which includes better lighting, detail (much more), more custom textures, and of course some crucial fixes (exposed spawns being the most important), but it appears someone has beat me to the punch:
http://www.prisonerofwarclan.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5229

Arrrgggh!

I guess I should be flattered? lol

Anyways, I probably should have never called this final, as it's become obvious that it isn't.

So I guess I'll be calling the update frostvale2_b1 :D

Why don't you talk to the guy and get him to use a different name (and maybe hold off on his edits)?

im sure the guy will understand if you get in touch. i think whats happened is , everyone has seen potential in the map and by going final in what appears to be a half finished map has left peeps wanting more and have taken it into there own hands to finish it.

this is just my opinion on your map:

it doesnt "feel" cold. a very slight fog, and have you made the map "cold" in the map opinions?

also where the houses are on fire dont add snow to the roofs, it would have melted.

other than tht great map! hope to see more from it.

I tried to create a username/password on the site, but was having server/DB trouble with that site. I'll try again to get in touch and have him hold off...but don't get me wrong....I'm not upset with him or anything....more upset with myself for calling it final :D

I just wanted to post here with an update (even though I don't have new screenies) in-case he posts here too.

I've been working on the sky and lighting first to try and get that better. After that will be fixing the spawns, and then more detail and such.

Multiple versions of a good map is a wonderful thing. Go for it.
Speaking of multiple versions of a map...Escape sucked. (I'm working on the one and only version of the layout)
CR_44 is probably the most remade map of all time though, I don't even want to think of how many versions I have on my 1.3.

You don't have anything to worry about DVD, I'm a slow ass mapper, beyond that SS I haven't had time to do any editing.

At least you don't appear to be on of the IP Nazis that has driven me away from these forums.

Rommels!

I had a sneaking suspicion you were here ;)

No it's an open source game (of sorts), and I know zonetrooper wanted to mess around with the map too, but I just wanted anyone to hold off with a release, because I'm not done with it myself :p

I play on your guys' server sometimes, so that's how I found that thread...no biggie. I'll post some new screens of the new sky and lighting (which I'm doing first) as soon as I can. I don't think it will take me more than a few weeks to get the frostvale2_b1 out there.

To be honest, I think I called it final because I didn't really think it would get that much playing time....but I've found some servers actually like it. I did 2 maps for cs 1.6 back in the day, and they never got played, so I think I just had the mindset that it would be a learning experience and nothing more.

Anyways, thanks for holding off!

Yeah, I come here once in a blue moon, I used to come here a lot more until the community went all IP nazi and you couldn't post edits of anything that you didn't make all yourself without it being removed or getting flamed.

As long as your working on it I won't be releasing anything.

I think you saw some of the changes that we though would make it better though...
Spawn:
Move some spawn points out of the line of fire
Make more protection/cover
Make more exits, we were talking making an interior to that building off to the right of the allied spawn and putting a couple spawns in there so if the main got camped some will spawn over there to counter.
Maybe make the upstairs of both spawns accessible with windows you can shoot out if your team is pushed that far back.

Other Misc changes:
Fix the particle shooters for the fires so they shoot up not to the side.

someone talked about adding fog to your map to make it colder.. I do think it's a good Idea.. beside the cool effect, it will help you reduce the fading distance of your object making your map gain FPS and performance.... AND this would enable you to add some more cool effects and details.... without reducing performance....

don't forget to use areaportals and hint brushs as you have multiple level in your map... it will help you gain FPS too.

finally, add some rubble to the bottom of your holes in walls and make those burning houses wall black with smoke above the windows from were smoke should come out...

beside your map has a very interesting and global architecture... good work keep it going... never mind if you take one more year before releasing it again :-) as a good map cannot be a one-night made map...

Thanks yoda...all good ideas.

To be honest, I've not been too hot on the fog, although I will try it out at home to see how it turns out. I was going to shoot more for a stormy dawn sky (huge dark clouds), with snow flurries here and there (just dark enough to allow for good ambient lighting, but not dark enough to where it's hard to see the enemies). We'll see...I'm definitely going to try out a couple different skies though.

If the newly added detail becomes too much, then I might have to resort to fog for the added FPS benefits.

Don't forget the accessible bell tower. ;) Seriously though, I really like this map and to add more details to it would make it even more incredible.