Hi there.

Since I'm still waiting for a couple of models crucious to DoD_Nightingale's gameplay to get finished, I've started my redux version of DoD_Nürnberg.

The setting:

- The City of Nuremberg in April 1945.

Nuremberg, located in the southern State of Bavaria, was one of the largest and most important cities of the Reich. In April of 1945, US troops started a major attack on the 93% destroyed city. The defense was extremely heavy and lasted for several days, leading to high casualties on both sides.

The layout:

There are two central bridges (2-man-caps) in the middle of the map across the river Pegnitz, the Museumsbrücke and the Fleischbrücke.

Each spawn is located in one of the two twin-churches St. Sebald and St. Lorenz, each on one side of the river, so the river will be a natural frontline.

Axis troops will be able to use mortars and artillery to strike the US fortifications, while the US troops can call for air support to level German fortifications and bunkers across the map.

All in all, there will most likely be 4 flags; the two bridges and one flag close to each spawn marking the headquarters.

Status:

- Brushwork is at 55%
- Athmosphere: set
- Custom overlays & textures: 75% finished
- Gameplay and balancing: 0%.

Now for the pictures.......

http://www.albatros44.de/wip/nbgshow1.jpg

http://www.albatros44.de/wip/nbg10.jpg

StuG model by Lard, many textures by Spineroyal (spineroyal.com <-- a genius he is :D), Flak18 by Ranson... hope I didn't forget anybody.

And again you show some great skills at depicting an atmosphere, but really you need to stop using displacements everywhere ;) That last screenie has the most bent out of shape windows I've ever seen, and the glass hasn't broken yet, those are very solid windows :)

That 5th screenshot from the top is the perfect illustration of every work I've seen of you this far. Like I said on Mapcore, there's always a sense of "wow this is cool looking" and "this could be so much better still". It's like every screen I see feels great, then I pay more attention to the details and go "this is just wrong".

So yeah in that 5th screen, you seriously need to work on those towers. Textures don't do everything, those look like they were copied from 1.3 straight over. Use more brushes to add variety, and models too.

Looks awesome. The fact is though he manages to create the proper atmosphere...whereas many who get all the "details" right don't.

The details can be addressed in the future with the help of an expert maybe!! But so many of these maps have the trappings of genius IMHO.

:)

@Furyo:

Well, first of all it's a WIP - not even two weeks old, but the reviews across all forums show that the standards of a release candidate are being applied to it. I guess I should be happy... :)

The major difference might be that I use to show every corner of my maps without regard on their current status as long as they transport a feeling of what they're going to look like when they're finished.

Of course those turrets and also the bent wall won't keep that shape in the end. I guess that's pretty obvious if you check out those areas where I didn't make that kind of "mistake", for instance the model useage, flat appearance of the turrets or the bent windows.

Changing that kind of stuff really isn't a challenge, creating the whole scenery - is. And it's becoming a nightmare when you have to aim for the most efficiant visibility-blocking, saving resources and adapting layout changes to achieve a maximum balance of looks & performance, which is why some of those spots you've mentioned (and I *do* share your opinion on their deficites! :) ) only serve as placeholders until I can get a grip on the whole performance.

So.... while the general flaws will certainly be corrected, it would be a great help if you & everybody else could point out specific problems (you know, that kind you don't notice being the author.. :)).

@Colonel Krust:

Thankee :]
I've released my first DOD:S-map (dod_nuernberg in it's old shape) in June 2006, so concerning Source I'm really still a learner, especially because I'm still thinking a bit too much in the fps-wise limitations of HL1. Though I could easily risk a bit more detail here and there, I sometimes won't because I fear a drop of fps... but I'm working on that :D.

By the way: I didn't forget about those Stuttgart-demos you offered to turn into avis for me :), but the material I have just doesn't seem to be good at all on a second view... I'll have to wait for a chance to record some really catchy ones.

Cheers,

Albatros - going back to work...

P.S.:

The bent wall isn't that far fetched I assume...

http://www.scleroedema.de/treffen2006/bilder06/schief.jpg

;)

Albatros;1053081']:)

The bent wall isn't that far fetched I assume...

http://www.scleroedema.de/treffen2006/bilder06/schief.jpg



You're right about the walls, in some citys hardly one of these old houses have a single 90 degree corner. Which isn't suprising since they are standing there for several hundreds of years. But your picture is an extreme example ;)

Like these color settings you have settle on -- works with the city scape atmosphere. Would be neat to see a light rain falling, but I know that would probably be a fps killer.

I know all too well that these walls exist, having lived in similar places before. There is a difference of axis however, notice your windows are bent inwards, as opposed to sidewise. In the first case, the glass would break, and in the second, it may only move.

Anyway, that's not a problem. Looks like you've got it covered anyway.

Organize a playtest, let's see in a first beta how gameplay works, and hopefully you haven't spent all that time on things that may have to be changed. As for performance, I think you've made enough maps on this engine to have a good grasp on things already

I'll go through each of these screenies in detail and report back with my comments

Great, looking forward to that. Thank you, sir :].

And yup, I hope the changes will be of a minor nature. I'm feeling confident there since the layout is not too experimental in comparison to some of my previous work.

Cheers,

Albatros

Awesome... :)

that is one sweet tank model

Would be neat to see a light rain falling, but I know that would probably be a fps killer.
Light rain would be nice, but why is it it looks crappy in every DoD:S map?

If you do some sort of rain, make sure there is rain sound FX. That donner remake is out there somewhere - and there's no rain sound which makes it a little freaky.

Defintealy good use of textures, lighting, and fog, and cool looking Gothic buildings.

But I have to agree your use of displacements on more than a few places seems to make things a little out of wack.

Also, your bridge is plain ugly. Ive yet to see a small french or german bridge in a village with so little life. It seems you built the bridge around the tank instead of the tank around the bridge. My suggestion is the latter.

Have the bridge curve gradually upwards towards the center, curve the sides to follow it, and include a 32 or 16 unit thick arch underneath it. Also, they tend to have sidewalks on either side. A good height for the sides is 32-48 units. A 8-unit thick border on top of the sides textured as concrete also looks nice.

Slope it :)
http://www.litkoaero.com/Images/GUB001_fr.jpg

Type "stone bridge" in google images. There are some amazing examples to check out.


Good luck with your project. Small map or just a start?

Hi Watchtower :)

In fact, the bridge is only a placeholder. It's a copy of the original Museumsbrücke, and it's a shame they didn't build a more beautiful one.

The real one has three arches and a bit of railing + a statue on it, but apart from that it's a very simple layout.

It's going to get some eyecandy though later on, I'll improvise ;).

Oh and it's a medium sized map, 6000 x 2500 hammer units. You could say what you get to see here is really just a start :).

Thanks,

Albatros

Do you have any ideas as far as a layout as of yet? and are you thinking det or flags? I could see alot of different det access points in this map as far opening paths with charges. Interested to here your ideas for a layout. I could be interesting to make this a very sniper firendly map balancing it with easy access to take them out upon detonation opening up key paths.

It looks good Albatros :-D

Your map in style some how reminds me of the Red Orchestra map Danzig. You should try it out. It think IMHO it is one of the best maps for RO.

http://storefront.steampowered.com/Steam/Marketing/message/807/img/RO_01.jpg
http://storefront.steampowered.com/Steam/Marketing/message/807/img/RO_03.jpg

By the way ... Happy birthday Albatros :-D

Looks pretty cool !

:)

Another style of maping, very realistic !

Happy birthday btw :)

Thank you very much :)

And yeah, somehow my reply yesterday didn't work it seems... anyway, that RO map really does look sweet... outstanding athmosphere. At one time I planned to make Danzig for DoD; but it just seemed a bit too far fetched, even as a hypothetical scenario... :/









Update... :)

so very nice :) minen!

:)

Current WIP area, it's called the Fleischbrücke - meat bridge.

I'm working on the ruins on the right side.





If I didn't have to learn this stupid laws stuff, I'd really feel like mapping for hours and hours... lol

You gotta start thinking about a career change if you enjoy mapping this much :)

Btw, I know I promised some feedback but I've been extremely busy as of late, with CAMP, work and other stuff. I'll be away on a long weekend starting tonight, so I can have a look at the shots then

Hey Furyo,

I think I do... :)

I'll only go for the first examns so I have a safety net in case I'll fail at becoming good enough to do level design as a job. After those examns, I can risk a bit and see if I can become good enough. :]

About the screens - take all the time you need, it's absolutely okay if it takes a while. Almost half of the rough brushwork still is missing anyway, and from next week on I'll probably be able to finish an early balancing version of Nightingale anyways. :)

Thanks & cheers!

If you do consider this though, you're probably going to have to reconsider all your workflow. To read here that "almost half of the rough brushwork is missing" when those shots are already this detailed, that is a sign that you have a wrong sense of priorities when designing your maps. Unless you don't want to be a level designer but an environment artist (which from these shots you may have a better chance at)

Well, not to be misunderstood there - the layout is already complete. In fact I'm one of those good old paperwork fanatics, so all of the planning and layout work takes place on paper.

Step one is always to make a series of sketches, think of a gameplay idea and combine that with a rough overview of what it's supposed to look like when it's done. Then I discuss those basic things with a number of DoD veterans to find out what needs correction and finish a 2d-top-view, side-view and rear-view aswell as a set of detail sketches.

The map will in large parts be set before I even fire up hammer for the first time, especially regarding routes, scales and objectives.
So when I say half of the brushwork is missing, it's just a matter of transporting it from the paper into hammer. You could say I'm finishing a map from the upper left to the lower right corner... :)

Does that differ much from your way of working?

Well the difference I see is that you're already adding in lots of props but even more importantly decals and overlays, before playtesting your map.

I'm not saying the rough brushwork is all you need to organize a playtest. Lighting will definitely have to be used to give a sense of gameplay orientation and gameflow to your map, it'll orientate the player, whether in SP or MP. Some very basic texturing has to be done to give a sense of overall depth of the different scenes, and that'll tell players which weapons to use from which distance (as in this texture here will be lit this way, so the player will know how far he is from there, telling him if he has a chance of making that shot or not, etc)

All of these things will definitely impact your playtest, so not having them in at first will be a major deterent to the quality of the feedback you receive. At the same time, displacing this or that brush, or working on tweaking light intensity so "this little rock here is lit correctly" is a complete nonsense from a design point of view at that stage in the map. You're wasting precious time that you have right now as a custom mapper, but that you won't have when your producer is asking you to meet a certain deadline.

I think that's the decisive point... looking at it from that point of view you're right. With my current workflow I do indeed need more time for a project than with a more efficiant one.

Dang, valuable stuff... see, this might have been even more helpful than the comments on the screenshots :).

Well yeah, as long as I'm custom mapping I can afford the extra time and warrant for a nice balancing version, but I'll certainly adapt to the "slim line" of mapping soon.

Cheers,

Albatros

The map does look awesome and hopefully the gameplay and balance it good. Just take your time when making a map, make sure that you know it works well.

Heya,

just announcing that I'm still working on this. Nightingale has my full attention at the moment concerning DoD, but other non-dod-projects are taking up most of my time...

Thus I'm gonna delay this into august... :|

Cheers,

Albatros

a non-dod-project is taking up all of my time currently but both nightingale and nuernberg redux have my full attention :D

the architecture/ way of destruction is really really nice. i guess it's the most realistic i have seen in dod so far.

All i can say is OMG

That actually looks better than real life.

I hope you don't mind my saying this, but in the veeeery first screen, the flak gun is pointed straight at a wall, and the tower behind it. I'm sure I'm just splitting hairs here, but that was the biggest thing that jumped out at me.

Other than that, the map looks pretty nice. Keep up the good work.

Jesus !
great map, really awesome, this map should be an official one !
Congratulations and keep this beautifull job !

Thanks =),

going strong on it.

I said it in another place - I only work on it one day per week due to other engagements, but that day usually pushes me forward quite a bit.

Got my HDR working again today, so I can present you some more decent pictures of the progress! :)





Cheerio,

Albatros

P.S.: Cpl. Punishment - hell, I'd mind you *not* saying things that are absolutely true. :)

Of course you're right with that Flak. The only reason I've put it there in that unusual location is that in the very early and very late stages of the war, those 88s were used extensively for ground combat. I'll go for a PAK 40 though - just don't have any time for modeling at the moment (and still missing the experience in that sector for something really good).

Cheers!

Albatros;1067737']
Got my HDR working again today, so I can present you some more decent pictures of the progress! :)


Nice work, looks great, love how destroyed things look :)

BTW, where you having the VVis problem where it crashes after about 20%? If so how'd you fix it? I'm getting some problems with it and it's giving me window's crash errors and funky shadows where there shouldn't be etc etc.

Sorry for the off topic :(

Man this map looks incredible. The atmosphere is so unique. Can't wait for a release.

@Sly Assassin:

Sorry - I was only one of the myriads of users who had that vrad-crash problem in the second (HDR-) run.

All I can offer you is to send me your compile log and I'll take a look at it :).

@Omni One: I guess release will be between end of august / early september!

Albatros;1067825']@Sly Assassin:

Sorry - I was only one of the myriads of users who had that vrad-crash problem in the second (HDR-) run.

All I can offer you is to send me your compile log and I'll take a look at it :).

@Omni One: I guess release will be between end of august / early september!


thanks, compile log's fine expect for one nodraw on a terrain suface which shouldn't effect it.

Well,

took me a bit longer than planned to get working on it again.







So yeah... maybe december it'll be, then? ;)

Anybody who'd care about participating in pre-alpha bug spotting, please send me a PM soon. I guess in two weeks or so I can have a playable version done.

Cheers!

i love you man :P, great job.

Albatros;1092161']Anybody who'd care about participating in pre-alpha bug spotting, please send me a PM soon.
wei dohnt ju ahnsa? :D

this map is looking soooo good and so ww2ish. you are the man.

i love you man :P, great job.


I love your work :p

Change the attic windows, those are just horrendous brushes with slapped on textures (1.3ish), and rescale the shingle texture on the main tower (which I suppose is in the 3d skybox)

I'm also really not sure the tower on the right (small one) would ever be that thin when it's that long. That just looks weird

Aside from that, you've got a visual winner.

Hi again,

thanks hehe.

@piu: ken yu hiär mie?!

And hey, way to go... :D

@ Furyo:

Muchas gracias, good idea on changing the dormers & shingle texture. Looking much better now. These are the few really awkward things I just don't see anymore after staring at a scenery for too long, getting used to them... so even more appreciated :).

Heya, thanks for the feedback :).

@Thrik:

I'm using IrfanView to quickly rescale my screenshots from 1280 x 1024 to something smaller. It slightly blurs them automatically in that process, so I sharpen the pictures once. Not a perfect solution, I admit.

The original-size screenshots of each picture are linked with it, though, so you can see the untampered stuff aswell.

@Seldoon:

Thanks for the paintover :), the info_lightings are still missing (aswell as enough cubemaps). I've been retexturing that area so the texture flaws are gone aswell.

@PogoP:

I've started layouting with mostly standard content, but now I'm replacing more and more with my own stuff, some raw material comes from cgtextures, other from pictures I've taken in my vacations. Also, I use a lot of SpineRoyal's ressources. He made some of the finest texture packs for DoD I've ever seen.

Some update with pedroleums damn sweet Stug-skin aswell as some texture overhauling:





Cheers,

Albatros

PS.: almost forgot it. The little tower has to look like that, even though it's admittedly looking a bit weird on first sight.

http://reichskrone.de/WegWanderungNuernberg-Dateien/image003.jpg

This is the original building.

Oh my god this thing is looking more and more beautiful.


P.S. - Alba, I updated the grunge brush topic, so you can go d/l the set.

very detailed and gloomy map.

Puts your right there. Actually one of the few maps Ive seen that looks like a war has been happening there.

One question how are framerates and how large is the map? is it a small, medium or large map?

Great use of atmosphere like everyone says.

sil3ntninja

looks amazing. when i heard dod was coming to the source engine back in the day, this is the kind of quality and atmosphere in maps that i expected

Hey again,

@Watevaman: great stuff, thanks :) already downloaded the set of brushes.

@etfninja: I'm trying to stay on the level of the stock maps with the FPS, and the size will be comparable to that of dod_kalt. :)

Continuously changing stuff... hehe

First screenshot:

- Perfectly flat slanted wall (destroyed) on the left -> impossible. Even a level 2 displacement brush to make it seem like there's some parts sticking out would sell that feeling a lot better.

- One of the two upstairs windows looks like it's lit wrong. Even if it's supposed to be a brownish rock it's made of, there's no reason the other one wouldn't be made of the same. I could understand it if both windows were decades apart and in a different architectural style, but this is not the case.

- Again, the attic windows just destroy the scene. Way too flat, with no roof overhang on the front. Weird texture choice for the ones most to the left, with a different color than the rest, while still being tiles (I'd chose metal to enhance the difference) and for the ones most to the right, with the overlay going under these brushes and not continuing the worn out look.

Make them two separate brushes at least, so you add depth to these windows. If you're out of budget for brushes, level 2 displacements will do it too.

- The roofs of the two buildings facing the viewer in that screenshot look too bended at the top, and it looks like the support structure actually goes through the tiles.

- I like that new dome in the skybox, better texturing too, but that spike has got to go. Replace it with a model (you have some in the other screenshot) if you have to, but this just screams brushwork.

- Again, that tower on the right hand side looks weird. Mostly its roof. Too spiky for one thing, and also not symmetrical at its base, which may be why it looks very unstable.

__________________________________________________ ___

Second screenshot:

- bad texturing on the chimney facing the viewer, it's tiling a lot.

- Unsure whether the top of the chimney really would be that black from the smoke coming out, certainly not if it's just wood burning. I realize it's black because it's coming through a skybox brush in Hammer, so I'm just pointing out you may want to make it smaller.

- Good attic window behind that chimney, see that's a perfect example of what the rest should look like.

- The wooden floor in the middle is too rounded for a destroyed one. Even polished again by time. The stock model you use on the right proves useful most of the time, so you could perhaps look into using it again there.

- Generally speaking, if you're going to have spiky tower roofs all over, please don't use tiles on the roof. Make them metal sheets or something, but tiles aren't cut in triangles in real life. That's what makes them stand out right now. You can also work on these angles with added trims on the top, to give some depth to the roofs. Really depends on whether or not players will be in the positions you took the screenshots though.

- Nice rounded broken pillar on the right, sticking through the wall. I'd disable its shadows so it doesn't cast this black on the wall.

That's it for now, hope this is helpful

Can't wait for this one, Albatros. It's looking better and better.

Hey Furyo,

haven't received comments from you that turned out not to be helpful in some way :), so thanks a lot.

Everything you've mentioned is correct, some of these things are pretty tricky.

The erratical lighting behaviour on some of the models will be a matter of info_lightings and cubemap placement I guess.

I'll also try and see what I can come up with metal roofing / floor model-wise.

Though I don't go into detail now, please be assured that I've read everything you've pointed out and already had a chance to correct one or two of these things. :)

Here goes:








My spare time for working in hammer isn't what I'd like it to be, but I'm trying to keep the schedule as far as I can.

Cheers :)

On that last screenshot, and others before, one thing I noticed is the lack of overhang on the roofs. On the right side there, there's too much of a hard separation between the slanted roof tiles and the vertical wall. A 8 units large, 2 units tall brush there with its bottom face displaced can easily be transformed to a gutter shape, as I usually do it. Using a shingle trim texture you've used elsewhere, you could break that up with close to no additional cost

a fence, a horse, a truck, 2 flaks and tnt boxes - all in one place - that may be a little bit to much. but maybe i have to see it ingame to judge. besides that - great, great job.

Holy Crap!!! :eek:

:)

Trying to get some of Furyo's and the others suggestions installed, but it'll take a while until I can applicate those improvements to all buildings.





Bit of update once again..

Looking good, as usual, Alba -- question: how do you get your textures to look so photo-realistic? Are you adding extra bumpmapping or are those screenshots at ultra high resolution, AA/AF settings?

Hey :).

Well, first of all, I'm relying on spineroyals or my own textures, and as far as the .bsp size allows it, I create additional bumpmapping .vtfs.

Everything else is just scaling the textures so they fit the brushwork exactly. AA and AF are high, resolution is at 1280x1024.

Boosting your settings for taking screenshots has quite a few points to itself... not only do they look better, but you can also automatically gain better chances for a solid FPS rate on most player's PCs if the map is running fluently on your own at high settings.

Nice work Albatros! I admire your mapping stamina. It seems as though you always have something on the conveyor belt.

Some feedback.

I agree with most of Fuyro's comments. Some very useful constructive criticism in there. One thing about the textures on the spires that might help you.

It is possible to get the textures to align more or less perfectly, without too much hassle, using the alt + right command. Make a cylinder that is the same size as the lower part of your spire, and align all the textures perfectly (using alt + right). Only one face will be messed up.

Then alt + right the corresponding cylinder face, to the one on your spire. Once done all the way round, the textures will align brilliantly.

You could also add a lower extruding trim on these (between the spire and the cylinder), by using the arch tool. Draw a 90 degree arch, and make it fit with your cylinder, and at about 8 units thick. Cut each segment of the arch into a triangle, and then pull the inner lower corners of each triangle down. Once done on all of these, there will be a slanted border between, the cylinder and the spire.

Because you have a lot of cylindrical stuff, I think this could add some nice polish.

If you don't understand what I mean by what I said (it's hard to explain), I will post an example vmf of the result, which should help.

Hey OrnateBaboon,

thanks for the feedback.

It's a bit early in the morning. so I had to read all of it several times ;p, but now I've got it. Very valuable information on those two techniques - I'll instantly give it a try in hammer.

Heh and yeah, I normally don't spend a day without working on at least one map. :)

Cheers & thanks again,

Albatros

Another small update :).

@ Ornate Baboon, Furyo: I've been experimenting a bit with those trims & the gutter pipes. All in all these are some fine additions to the looks!

I like the lighting as it is now and I'll post an overview within the next couple of days.

Awesome work Albatros!
Nice progress on this map, it looks cleaner and more organized
now than in the beginning of this thread.
It's something I think you might struggle with, don't get me wrong I
love the bombed look you got on your maps.
But remember that It's got to be a fun and easy map to play so
sometimes art and realism has to suffer for playability.
To little space and to many cracks and thight corners turns the map into a sniper masacre. :D

But from those last shots it looks like it's room enough to have a proper fight. ;)

(Btw the spineroyal site is no more, but welcome to TextureHub)

I forgot to post this before. My explanation was so bad regarding the cylinders thing with trim. Hopefully the vmf will help.

http://www.chehamilton.com/Random/cylinders.zip