A quick question again (ok so there are a few questions :P). There are lots of great guides for the actual technical side of mapping, i was wondering when you guys design a map, do you do so with a particular number of players per team in mind, or not? Thinking of a certain style of gameplay that the map design will encourage?

I think it is quite important, as there is, i think, quite a difference in playing on a 20 player and a 32 player server. To have a great playing experience on both, all other factors being equal, requires an appropriately sized/designed map, impo.

That being said, who do you build your map for?
Is it primarily for yourself and your ideas you would like to share?
Is it something you want to get perfect and for everyone?
Do you build for 32 player servers because they can be the most 'popular'?
Do you build for smaller server setups?
Do you compomise a thing of beauty or gameplay..which takes precedent...do some mappers focus on the look above the feel and vica verca..

Do you think of two designs.. one for 32 player and one for 20 players?
Do Server Admins even care? (i would hope so!)
Will SA's upload maps appropriately to servers?
I know i would.. i would LOVE to see some maps rejigged for 20 player servers, that atm on a 20 man are too big, and visa verca, maps on 32 player that arent quite big enough atm, made bigger.

If anyone has other ideas about the 'idea' or 'philosophy' behind map making, please do share. Obviously im a total noob in regards to mapping, other than the fact that i love keeping up with what all ye great mappers are producing. More than most things, i reckon the concept and pre planning behind a map is vital... over the course of a map build which i guess can take months... how true do you stay with your orginal idea behind the map? Do you think it matters if you do or dont?

Cheers fer yer thoughts.

edit - i want to add in a few recent quotes from some of ye, which i think add to this discussion..

my comments were on the size of the maps, not that they are league maps actually.

The most popular maps seem to all be about the same size as the standards and as someone that wanders around various pub servers a lot, the most full 32 man servers always seem to be on Donner/Argentan/Avalance/Solerno/Anzio etc., all of about the same size and "breed" of map.

There will always be a few servers that successfully run customs because they have a large clan or group that only plays on that one server but the standards and a few small customs rule the rest of the busy ones.

Yes, the league maps make the top 10 custom for a couple of weeks because of the number of clan players . The map for each week is mandatory. That doesn't mean its a clan's favourite or that pub players will like it. It just means that particular map is the match map and the teams are faithfully practicing... for that week.

The recent CAL maps are reworkings of 1.3 standards:
Coire, the railroads, anzio, donner, thunder, insecurity(cr44 adaptation) and solitude with argentan, anvil and stug being the only "breakout" maps.

These are all good for 6v6 play but pub servers are usually 20-32 man. Larger maps that support something beyond 2 heavies going one side and rifles going long are interesting and appreciated for the general DODS community.

The question still remains whether custom maps are not getting the play time because of inefficient advertisement and distribution or a true lack of interest.
Just my 1 cents.

This is somewhere I feel I can offer a valid opinion to the server ops and mappers on these forums.

Most of the maps in the top ten custom list each week will be competitve maps, every single week. There are a lot more competitive players out there then people realize and these same players also frequent pub servers and other communities and end up requesting the maps you'll see on that top ten list week in and week out.

Watch the CAL rotation this season and you'll see maps like coire, anvil2, lennon, thunder, salerno and rails all make their stay at number one for a week.

Pub players and league players generally all like the same kind of maps, they want to get into the action quickly and start looking for people to kill. This is a topic I've discussed with many a mapper privately in the community as I've had the chance to work with them here and there and something that needs to be discussed in the open.

As much as I love seeing some of the amazing creations by some of you, you're going to end up making a beautiful map that will never be played or popular if you continue to make them so big. Please look over all the top maps and notice that even the popular stocks all share the same thing with the popular customs, people want smaller maps with limited jogging around the map.

Many mappers snub the league players that ask for help getting more league maps made but the proof is in the stats, league maps are popular because pub players actually enjoy the maps for the same reasons.


Please try and curb your desire to make the next huge masterpiece and work on a smaller scale if you want your map to be a popular choice.


I don't think mappers should be forced to compromise their maps just because people can't wait for something to download or can't even be bothered to go to a site and download it themselves.

I build my maps for myself, I think of something that I think would be fun to play then go and do it.
Though in saying that I keep a certain gameplay in mind and also build it for 32 players.

I find it very difficult how to imagine a map will run with different amount of players. The main map under my name (vigilance) was inspired when a friend was complaining about not being able to enter many buildings in maps. When drawing the layout, I planed one side to cater to rifles while the other to cater for Close Quarters Combat and aimed at around the size of 1.0 dod_Flash. Then making it all so that Line of Sight wasn't too large it all came together that way.
It's probably... 2 and half years, or 3 since I started so it's quite a way from the original, but not too much (the tunnel was even planned from the start).
No I never really thought about how many players it can fit to be quite honest, modeling it loosely off an 'official' map it seems to work.
At the end of the day I just do it to say that I have made something instead of doing something un-constructive as just gaming :) If people like it then it makes it funner.

It would be nice for mappers to include map descriptions that say how many players a map was specifically designed for. That way if a server has too little or too much traffic and doesn't find the map a good map they'll know why. I think it would be a very good thing for the entire dod:s community to do so.

Most servers that are continually full can play the maps that are designed for full servers and those with only a few people can play the smaller maps. That way there is a good variety no matter what server you hop into instead of the same maps on every server with varying number of players.

Gents,

If the map is well designed, planned and balanced then it should be fine for all small and largeservers. Yes we have some maps are specifically made for smaller or large servers, but we shouldn’t intentionally going out our way to do so.

I know I think about the flow of game and run the map on my community to see how players will flow in the game, but it doesn’t always turn out the way I have planned. Also area with FPS drop I will eliminate access or block the area off so no one will experience the FPS drop and cause lag for them. It’s really up to the mapper.

Mapper don’t need the extra pressure, should allow his/her imagination just flow naturally. Does it really need to look like a real town? It’s a game that fun factor should always be number 1st priority and the gamer will appreciate even more. I think one of the problem I’m experiencing is some communities expect every map released MUST be up to their standard and that is not fair. Since I have done mapping I learn to appreciate the work of many mapper’s efforts and their mapping project.

Happy St. Patrick’s weekend!!!

Cheers, Kurt

I think a good map, as I'd call it, is a map that have equal value playing it with full, or just a few players.

Personally, I've never liked playing on 32 player servers. I think most here would agree that 12-16 player servers play most maps the best, because you can "manage" teamplay. After a certain limit, it just becomes one big deathmatch.