any chance of a forest map with trenches and that?

set in the summer with some bombed out building and that.

No fog or anything on it as its summer lol and no sandbags just a plain forest obviously have bushes and that 2

just an idea i had and well basicly always wanted

its up 2 the person who makes it if its CTF or Bomb objectives :)

thanks ToAd

Something like out of the movie "Lost Battalion"? That's the image I got when I read this post. The only thing, the move is during WWI, but takes place in the Argonne Forest, near Verdun.

never seen that film mate :S

I have ideas floating around that I may or may not begin work on. I am working on my first map still, but I may abandon that all together.

Well the idea isn't really that original. The main reason as far as I can imagine to why there are no good forest maps for dods, especially without fog, isn't that it hasn't come across alot of mappers mind to do, but rather that it's very hard to make a forest map that runs smoothly.

But if anyone can manage to do this, I would also love to see a real forest type map. :) Read something somewhere about new technology beeing included in Epsiode 2 that would allow larger open areas without loss of fps, or something like that, dunno if it's true though. :/

A port of Lyeskrovy from ro to dod would be fun.

To whoever would want to make this map, I'd recommend taking a look at Lyeskrovy for ideas for the look and feel of the map. Of course the layout couldn't be that open due to optimization purposes. Maybe after HL2:Ep2..

EDIT: sorry MB, I hadn't read your post, didn't mean to be redundant.

Why not just remake dod_forest? I'd play it...one of my favorite maps. :cool:

ha, you been looking over my shoulder or something?

For the past couple of days I've been messing around with ways of making a forest while still keeping fps up. I'm trying all sorts of combinations of models, etc, to give the illusion of a dense forest.

Check out these pics from my test map:



(as a side note, the new imageshack format is pretty interesting)

dod_outpost has a small forest/woodland area in it, and it's nicely done imo. Maybe an expanded map based on that area would work, with added trenches etc.

ha, you been looking over my shoulder or something?

For the past couple of days I've been messing around with ways of making a forest while still keeping fps up. I'm trying all sorts of combinations of models, etc, to give the illusion of a dense forest.

Check out these pics from my test map:



(as a side note, the new imageshack format is pretty interesting)DAMN YOU DD!!!! You beat me to it. I have been working on something myself but didn't want to share it yet (I'm greedy)...but it looks like a great start!

Google The Battle of Hurtgen Forest:

http://bellsouthpwp2.net/e/a/ea_herr/Hurtgen333.jpg

:)

ha, you been looking over my shoulder or something?

For the past couple of days I've been messing around with ways of making a forest while still keeping fps up. I'm trying all sorts of combinations of models, etc, to give the illusion of a dense forest.

Check out these pics from my test map:



(as a side note, the new imageshack format is pretty interesting)

*drools over the keyboard*
is the map gonna have trenches? what about climbable trees? because just a forest floor, even with trees may not provide enough cover, IMO.

also, I think that a mini-tunnel/bunker system would be very nice too. not overly complex, not important enough to be the key element, but to keep everyone on their toes.

Google The Battle of Hurtgen Forest:

http://bellsouthpwp2.net/e/a/ea_herr/Hurtgen333.jpg

:)That's EXACTLY what I have been working on.

Hurtgen would look great, some bushes and leaves everywhere is great.

is the map gonna have trenches? what about climbable trees? because just a forest floor, even with trees may not provide enough cover, IMO.


So far it's just a concept map, meaning it's not very large and definitely not close to being a full map yet. I just wanted to see if it was even possible to have a realistic looking forest. Still more testing to be done, so please Formologic, dont let me stop you from making your map :) We need more!

We need more!That's for sure.

I had a couple of ideas running around in my head, but nothing set in stone. I was thinking to do Hurtguen forest first, since it was on the way to Hill400, then do a map in the style of Hill400, then move onto something else. So.....I will maybe focus more on the Hill400 to see what I can come up with. I'm still a total noob mapper so who knows if I even get anything out the door. :p I don't have my first one in beta stage yet. :(

fps is gona be a ***** though

so far it seems the biggest hit comes from the layers of alpha textures used for the tree leaves. Using +showbudget, the swap buffers field is the one that goes bonkers when looking up at the trees.

More than likely, an entire open-ended forest map will not be possible without fog. However, that doesnt say anything about maps that are 50-50 or whatever.

I have a layout that I am toying around with that might help with the fps issue. We'll see though.

Here's something that I was playing around with a long time ago....

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/formologic23/de_methlab_a70000.jpg

The picture really doesn't do any justice at all, you have to be walking through it to get the full effect.

it seems you are relying on the tree models just a little too much. the terrain seems rather flat. we need shrubs, grass, mud, broken stumps, ect
but yeah, i realize its a WIP

Here's something that I was playing around with a long time ago....

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/formologic23/de_methlab_a70000.jpg

The picture really doesn't do any justice at all, you have to be walking through it to get the full effect.



How did you get those green pine trees? they only show up as snow pine trees in my map. or are those custom models?

Sounds like a really good idea. ;)

here's an idea to help keep the fps reasonable: have cliffs and huge rocks!

Here is a quicky just to see what kind of fps I could get with an enormous amount of Militia and Pine trees. :D

My system specs:

Intel 3.0 LGA 775 Single Core
2GB Corsair XMS DDR400
Nvidia 7900GT

Resolution: 1600x1200
AA: 4x
AF: 16x
Reflect World
All settings maxed out on a 20.1 Viewsonic VP2030b LCD

It may be hard to tell from the pics but the lowest I have so far is about 60fps with all these tree models, optimized only with 1024x1024 ground blocks. That is supposed to be water in the middle to form a little pond. It may not be saying much but I just wanted to see if I could fill up my quick layout with foliage. I'm also just posting to see what kind of discussion can/may/will become about it to get some ideas flowing about options.

PIC #1 (http://www.thegamerplanet.com/formologic23/Images/dod_forest_a20000.jpg)
PIC #2 (http://www.thegamerplanet.com/formologic23/Images/dod_forest_a20001.jpg)

I think that this test is not very reliable. Maybe you should add some bots, "spread" them around, make them mimic your actions (like fire their garands) and then tell us what fps you get :).

It's so refreshing to see a forest map in DoD:S..

looking goooooooood :D

i always wanted a lot of trees in highlander, but being so open and without fog, the framerate simply wasnt there for it :S

so I'll probably be throwing my hat in the ring on a more woodsy map at some point.

I think that this test is not very reliable. Maybe you should add some bots, "spread" them around, make them mimic your actions (like fire their garands) and then tell us what fps you get :).

It's so refreshing to see a forest map in DoD:S..Well, it may and it may not be, but that's a lot of darn alpha texturing going on, along with water, so the stuff needs to be rendered 3x when you have expensive water.

Again my goal was to see how many actual tree models could be drawn at one time and still maintain a decent fps, because those militia tree groups are tough cookies. If a layout is properly done, I don't see any reason why this couldn't work, it just is going to take some creative design...and someone with more skillz than I have. :D

My goal is within the next few weeks is to get something that is playable to test out on a server, instead of bots. I really don't want to go through the hassle. :p

but being so open and without fog, the framerate simply wasnt there for it :SI will probably do some fog to see what kind of difference it will make, but in the meantime I'm going all out Vanilla to see how much I can do to destroy the fps....

And for those who have missed this, this is my original project that has continued to plague me, but one day I will finish it. It's in the style of country sidish.

http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69005

What you can do w/an outdoor map, especially those set in the Bocage, is to physically separate the fields by large hedgerows made from displacement w/bushes and small scrub oaks and the like coming out of them. You can then create several openings to the field and then set a tight skybox around the field with the sky actually partitioning the hedgerow in the center...remember that in Normandy there were parts of hedgerows that you could not see over...so think of a network of roads surrounding fields with tall hedgerows separating them...that way you can contain viz to the field itself but still retain the feel of a larger map. As you travel around the outside of the field on the road network the engine cannot actually see into the field until you get to entrance points that you build. Make each entrance point a portal to block model drawing, place a few horizontal and vertical hints in the field to limit your box draw and play with the terrain to make tenches or whatever. Try and limit actual world brushes to a min unless you want to do something fancy like place a destroyed building as a "door" into the field.

If you then stick to undulating terrain in the field itself to limit the actual physical distance a place can see (be creative) you can add in enough tree models and the like to get a fairly realistic look and keep fps high enough to play. One thing you can do to judge how effective you are doing is run through Donner and Anzio from spawn to spawn along the main paths and note the fps as you run...then just keep your bocage/field map to similar figures.

At some point you should be able to run visual tests from all angles of your field to get a feel for draw distance and then set you fog and draw distances to match the longest possible view. Match your fog color to your lower skybox color and you should get a nice fade effect.

I think that's great advice for any map. Try and group the map into a series of large "rooms".

it may take some trickery to make the treetops disappear without becoming too noticable - well, at least on my map, where the trees are ginormous.

One way to limit the "tree-pop" effect is to place tree's along the top edge of your seperator (in my example...the top of the displacment-created hedgerow)...this way they will be seen on each side of the sky...so a person in the field would see the tree and a person in the road adjacent to the field would see the same tree...if you can afford it you can then place enough of them along the edges to obscure or hide any in-the-field tree-pops. Aside from the camouflage trick it helps you cheat a bit in the overall entity count (you don't need a tree on BOTH sides of you sky wall). Another trick is then to lower the outside road and hint over top of it so you never see the in-the-field tree in the first place once you exit the field.

Lots of little tricks like that.

Just a little update (no screens yet), but I have been plugging away at this test and it's turning out better than expected. I removed the water and put in place what is going to be a hill/cliff type thing, and on a normal compile (60 seconds), I am averaging probably 100fps on my machine. I have not used any optimization tools yet, and I know that it's a beginning, but I really think that this can be done with the way I'm going it. The fade distance is really going help out too when I get that going. Keep your eyes open for some further updates.

Just a little update (no screens yet), but I have been plugging away at this test and it's turning out better than expected. I removed the water and put in place what is going to be a hill/cliff type thing, and on a normal compile (60 seconds), I am averaging probably 100fps on my machine. I have not used any optimization tools yet, and I know that it's a beginning, but I really think that this can be done with the way I'm going it. The fade distance is really going help out too when I get that going. Keep your eyes open for some further updates.

I think fade distance is key on a map like this. I think making it seamless so it's barely noticed would keep fps high and make a pretty nice outdoor style map. It's that transition point, where you have a nice view as you move and stuff fades in so it's barely noticed, if at all. Something like BF2 I suppose, just prettier. I noticed when playing BF2 you don't even notice stuff fading in. Keep going on this formologic sounds promising.

I work for a mod called Resistance and Liberation and all of our maps have huge outdoor areas with heaps of trees, hedgerows etc.

I've found using a mixture of fade distances, combining 2 or more models into one model (ie making 10 seperate trees into one model that has the 10 trees in it), fog, hint brushes, low skybox, occluders and area portals really helps keep the fps high while letting you have alot of models around the map.

I think if you use a mixture of cliffs/hills with occluders in them, fade distances and Fuzzdads idea you'll go far with this map. If I had the extra spare time I'd be making a forest map for dod right now, alas I don't have the time though with working on the mod, family life and work :(

I work for a mod called Resistance and Liberation and all of our maps have huge outdoor areas with heaps of trees, hedgerows etc.

I've found using a mixture of fade distances, combining 2 or more models into one model (ie making 10 seperate trees into one model that has the 10 trees in it), fog, hint brushes, low skybox, occluders and area portals really helps keep the fps high while letting you have alot of models around the map.

I think if you use a mixture of cliffs/hills with occluders in them, fade distances and Fuzzdads idea you'll go far with this map. If I had the extra spare time I'd be making a forest map for dod right now, alas I don't have the time though with working on the mod, family life and work :(And I continue to have my eye out for your mod, you guys need to hurry up! :p

But thanks for the tips, I am hoping I can get some decent screenshots and a playable release in the next upcoming weeks.

If I knew anything about modeling, I would combine models on the other map I am working on, and it would probably help out with the FPS extremely well. I will look into getting book and obtaining a modeling program. I have Blender installed, I just have absolutely no idea where to begin.

Download the trail version of XSI and find some video tuts on their website, best thing to use apart from 3dsmax.

The really good thing about combining alot of models into one is it decreases how many times you've got to load the same model textures ;)

I have a version of my woodland map ready to be released publicly in the next couple of days. It's called dod_timberland_b1 for those interested in playing a woodland/forest map. Lots of trees, but I kept some of the ground details simplified as I was testing the idea. If people seem to enjoy it, I will add more details and optimize the map further.