Hi, I'm currently working on a ww2 map that would be set in Poland, Check Republic or one of those areas. Not in Normandy. Anything but Normandy! What I'm after is buildings that look like this:

http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=artillilerystreetcornervx3.jpg
http://www.vera.cz/images/brno_1-v.jpg
http://www.dp-praha.cz/obrazky/90014/tramvaj.JPG

maybe even like this (my home town) except w/o the trees:
http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laisvesaleja1ks8.png

here are some screenshots from the actual map:

http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=94863063er4.jpg
http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15881375ka5.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=84370142eg3.jpg

http://img161.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25419533fd0.jpg
the buildings in the last screenshot are most uninspiring. Somehow I feel like I'm running out of textures. or do I not know how to use them?

I'm hoping for some advice and references as to how to make all these buildings. Also I hope to have a few buildings accessible, but I wanted to know, how feasible is that? I mean such buildings are HUGE! the resulting map size may result in bad framerates and a long download time.

I looked for similar maps, but could find none, for any Source game. I would really want to find a similar one, decompile it and learn from it. Are there any maps like this out there?

FYI: this map is primarily to serve me as a learning experience. I'm not good with architecture.

Hi Irate Pirate,

well... first off I think you're starting that project the best way possible, organization-wise.

When it comes to the mapping part, I'd do it differently.

There's basically two ways on how to start a map.

One way would be to draw a paper layout and afterwards build the outlines of your map in Hammer and adding detail as you go.
That's what most people do.

The other way - my way :p - is to start with a highly detailed building as an inspiration and have the map unfold itself following only a rough plan in your mind. In this way, your inspiration will be conserved by enjoying the part of the map you've already finished - if it's looking good, your motivation will come automatically.



For your project I'd recommend doing just that - mapping a small part, maybe a block of three houses, in full detail, and then wrapping your map around it.

The idea itself sounds interesting, and the choice of picture material immediately got me a feeling of what you want to create. Promising stuff =).


Cheers,

Albatros

thanks for that Albatross. you maps are definitely an inspiration. I tried to decompile one for learning purposes but it gave errors.

as far as having a layout - I do have a layout in mind. and I can even come up with a few variations. however, I'm very afraid of having a huge map size (megabyte-wise). that will absolutely kill the map.

here is one possible layout:

http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=overviewto6.png

the bottom side of the map I am pretty comfortable with. the top side.. not so sure.

as you can see, the map's a mess. total randomness. until I learn how to make realistic, believable buildings, I see no point in figuring out the entire layout. but you're right, I should start out with a very small area and detail it a lot.

yet I'm afraid of repetitive buildings!

Hi again,

as for the repetitiveness... you might just need a bit more material to check out :).

http://www.jlittlewood.com/pictures/deutschland/pix.htm

This has in fact been a source of inspiration for me speaking of unique looks for buildings - you can definately give it a try for that city map of yours.

Okay, the major problem in that layout is as you said the randomness in the layout. Might not surprise you that my first screeners looked almost identical to your layout :).

http://www.albatros44.de/woha4.jpg

What made my work get better was to really stick to mapping one original town with many realistic buildings (dod_nuernberg) so I was forced to getting better with the Hammer tools.

My recommendation would be to collect a hell of a lot of pictures and photographs of an existing east-european town and, as I said above, start in small steps areawise but go for much detail.

One more thing though - the dimensions of a map are in no way the reason for a large filesize. I was using dozens of custom models and textures aswell as music in Dod_Luebeck, so I had a bsp of 85 MB for a while. Edelweiss is larger, but only comes to about 25 MB, because I reduced the # of custom models and custom textures aswell as sounds.

So that shouldn't be much of a problem for you :).

Cheers & good nite, 3 am here... dang.

Albatros

well the site you linked me to is very nice, great pics, but everything is very gothic. nearly every building looks like a church! damn, that will be hard to map.

I have yet to find a site would contain a series of photos from one city, not a bunch from every place. thanks for all the tips though.

I made a map it's basically a city block and every building you can enter and run around in. It's by no means pretty, I did it as a test for gameplay (which definitly has a different feel). The performance doesn't seem to take too much of a hit as long as you follow normal optimization concepts (don't make areas too big, don't make absurdly long halls ect.) the biggest thing it seems to affect is filesize.

Now the thing with the map I made is it's pretty empty devoid of items so of course as I fill the city up trying to make it more of a real map the fps might start to take hits as well, I don't honestly expect it to get out of control though.

If you want to see the map I have no problem with that, but it really is empty and simple, just a few building plans copy/pasted (in total there's about 35+ buildings). So it's something you could easily do on your own I'm sure.

I know that I personally would be willing to download larger maps if they had a more full and interactive environment.

well I'd love to see that map, hook me up! and I also don't mind long downloads as long as the maps are good. but many people mind it..

hi irate pirate !

the look of the city you wanted to archive (based on the pics you posted)
vienna is the right choice for you !

plus - nobody has ever done it before

what's "vienna" you ask...well it's probably the most central city in europe, the main city of austria, beneath germany and above italy

there was quite a lot fighting too, but for no reasons it's basically ignored in historybooks (international ones at least)

if you want i can give you heaploads of material and as the city's layout&style did not change in the last 60years i can give you up to date footage of it (i'm living there)

here are a view images to give you an impression:
pictures are taken between 1938 and 1943

http://www.wien.gv.at/ma08/geschichte/bilder/soviet.jpg
http://www.iisg.nl/collections/djambatan/images/debrug07.jpg
http://www.schifter.mediathek.at/htdocs/resources/img/POPUP_oegz_sp_wiengraben42_1006410.jpg
http://david.juden.at/fotos/heft51_Walzer3.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna

Wow thanks a lot, outlive! Vienna is just perfect. Not too many churches either.

You're being too shy on the detail!

http://www.albatros44.de/woha4.jpg
oh my albatros.... didnt u make a version of that in 3.1b and we used to play that together a few times :D was a fun map :D

Originally posted by Dash
You're being too shy on the detail!

I know, I'm a noob.

Originally posted by the_irate_pirate
I know, I'm a noob.

shhhh ;)

It's not about being a noob or not. I've seen a lot of maps where people shy-off to details thinking source can't take it. I say, do as much as you want, and THEN strip it off if it's too much, because great detail gives so much more appeal to a map.

A few pieces of advice I would give you to improve what you already built in hammer. Use more brushes on your buildings to add depth to them. A few horizontal or vertical brushes running along your buildings can go along way. Also check out the dod models for this (balconies, railings, etc)

Making some of the parts of your buildings taller or shorter would probably look nice aswell since city buildings are so large.

thanks for all the tips. I should have more detail.. no shortcuts exist.. I'm just gonna have to learn it!

wow I found an amazing website: http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Europe/Poland/East/Mazowieckie/Warsaw/page35.htm . check it out!

Warsaw is good place too

also look into Prague - very similar town to vienna