Well here is my contribution to the orange map community. Its a little different from the usual citrus. Are you up to the challenge? First here are a few screen shots.

http://static.filefront.com/images/personal/f/FishHeads/74906/rgcxbeiibc.jpg

http://static.filefront.com/images/personal/f/FishHeads/74906/wbliviknat.jpg

http://static.filefront.com/images/personal/f/FishHeads/74906/aridqjevlq.jpg

http://static.filefront.com/images/personal/f/FishHeads/74906/jyciiqyjyi.jpg

http://static.filefront.com/images/personal/f/FishHeads/74906/rehbgpzjfx.jpg

The download link for the map is here......
dod_orange_canyon_b1 (http://files.filefront.com/dod_orange_canyon_b1zip/;6636336;;/fileinfo.html)

Feedback welcome as this is the first beta. Enjoy.

Fish Heads (o>

i, personally, dont like dev, it hurts me eyes.

These maps are fun (providing the creator hasn't included giant advertising lettering all over the map) and I will be checking this one out.

It looks like unfinished rubbish to me.

This thread marks the day I've officially seen there was such a thing as a "orange map community". And there go my hopes of seeing everyone of them go down the drain....

Orange maps are an insult to the more "standard" maps, and to see they have this much success only further proves there really aren't many reasons for mappers to keep mapping for this game....except their own fun.....

Hell, even FY maps are at least textured.....

I will be nice....

obviously, there are people who like these maps. They see a lot of play time on servers.

I cannot for the life of me understand exactly why you'd want a map like this. I'm not condeming this; I'm just saying the appeal of these maps totally escapes me. I avoid these maps on servers at all costs.

I find them about as much fun as that god-awful "AWP" map for Counter-Strike

Well, I think i should elaborate on my post. When I say it proves there really aren't many reasons to keep mapping for this game, it's simply that if the orange maps get this much success, they must please the players.

There are really just two reasons for maps to be made: the mapper's fun and/or the players'.

So if this very little effort is enough for so many players, you're left with only the first reason.

Everyone will agree I'm sure, that seeing a map that can be done in a couple hours get some spots on the top 10 most played maps list can only demotivate any guy that would want to become serious about mapping, or any other serious guy that has mapped in the past.

Originally posted by Furyo
Well, I think i should elaborate on my post. When I say it proves there really aren't many reasons to keep mapping for this game, it's simply that if the orange maps get this much success, they must please the players.

There are really just two reasons for maps to be made: the mapper's fun and/or the players'.

So if this very little effort is enough for so many players, you're left with only the first reason.

Everyone will agree I'm sure, that seeing a map that can be done in a couple hours get some spots on the top 10 most played maps list can only demotivate any guy that would want to become serious about mapping, or any other serious guy that has mapped in the past.

thats correct
its a major let down for me personally
i rarely see either my my maps played
if dod_aura does not have a little more success with the community, it will be my last map for sure

Originally posted by Neutrino
thats correct
its a major let down for me personally
i rarely see either my my maps played
if dod_aura does not have a little more success with the community, it will be my last map for sure

JFG plays your maps Neutrino.

I agree with Furyo and Neutrino. Orange maps look like ass. Any talented mapper could whip off an orange map in about the same time it takes me to put the trash out back for pickup. I worked very hard on dod expire, took me a year of off and on motivation, and I don't see it get played very often.

What is even funnier is how protective some of the mappers who created these orange_arena_tower_train_xi_1337 maps are of their work. It cracks me up actually, very amusing.

Go ahead guys, make simple layout maps, maybe you are still learning hammer, but texture them, make them have some sort of semblance to something other then a giant pumpkin. Use some imagination, be creative.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
This is how one should build "orange" maps...simple easy deathmatch/flag maps set in an environment that at least passes for the era.

This was from the release post on dust2_slg. He's right.

I give this map a 2/10 without even playing it. Sorry fishheads.

Originally posted by Propaganda
I worked very hard on dod expire, took me a year of off and on motivation, and I don't see it get played very often.It's true, it doesn't get played very much and I personally LOVE this map. When I still had my server (I shut it down due to the lack of use) I put it in our regular rotation. I think the map is damn near perfect.

This is really the sign that DoD:S is not what it once was, and it's future is definitely questionable.

I prefer real maps with authentic feel. That being said during the middle of the day....it seems only arena maps fill servers with players.

lastly this looks a step above most of the arena maps with some more complex environments then the standard fare. good job.


expire is a great map....we need to have it more regular in the rotation on sunlits so it gets more play.

I don't really mind maps like these, and I sometimes play that XTC (?) server to just go and have some nice fun. But I mainly prefer maps that contain strategy, which these don't really have. Looks nice as a fun little map, though.

well they wanted more cs players moving over to dod, be careful what you wish for next time.

Sorry; these types of "maps" are never included on our server.

I always thought the dev textures were for developing the layout of a map, not for leaving the map like that.

I have a map (on the backburner) that uses dev textures, but it's because I didn't want comments on visuals; the dev textures are a "blank slate" so that gameplay and balance and paths can be checked. The map is still in the alpha state but I hope to finish it and make it look like it belongs in DoD.

Dev textures are for developing maps and I'd hate for anyone to jump on an alpha test of mine and have it classed with Orange-Mania.

i hate it. everyone is building dev styled levels. i like aimtrain but one or two dev things are enough.when you like, you can change the name 3xi orange canyon . this made it perfect ^^.

I'm sure you spent several minutes creating this map and I applaude that, I just don't "get" the orange map thing.

@ Furyo and Neutrino, I map as a purely as a hobby, not to please others, if I make something and ppl like it, bonus!

:)

Originally posted by Pan
(providing the creator hasn't included giant advertising lettering all over the map)


I spoke too soon..


I'm getting a bit bored with people writing junk all over the maps.

Sounds like a few folk here don't these 'orange maps' anyway, but even some realistic maps have this rubbish written everywhere.

At least a few folk like B@D do it nicely with a simple sign (ala summer_bridge) if you REALLY have to advertise inside the map..


sigh. :rolleyes:

Fisheads -

First I would like to apologize to you as you seemed to have stepped into a pile of goo that has been forming for awhile, and quite honestly really has not a thing to do with you. You just happened to be standing at ground zero when the levee broke. You've done nothing wrong and your attempt to contribute is appreciated by many.

Fisheads for the rest I'm not addressing you; I'm addressing everyone else posting here

It's the larger picture that has some of us wigging out I think. How to put this nicely; No one could EVER sell a game with those "orange" levels. Those maps are lame. They are actually a step back before even the DOD beta 1 (in 2001). Not to mention if I wanted to play "Tron", I would have bought it (that's what it reminds me of LOL)

And mappers, I understand %100 percent your ill feelings on this. It really does, after a certain point, become an insult to hear praise heaped upon these 1-day wonders. It's like finishing the Mona Lisa, having someone stick a tourist postcard on the wall right next to it and both receive equal praise.
It's not just maps either. THIS skin (http://www.fpsbanana.com/screens?img=http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/srends/16846.jpg) got voted into an "expert" status - ready for the punchline? - when nobody could even download it because the file was too big - he forgot to compress the VTF files. Reeks of professionalism, eh? LOL and I get accused of having a large ego because I point out that my reskins are about %500 times superior to this. Don't worry; in some forum somewhere you guys will probably get accused of the same thing (if you haven't already)

So far it seems most everyone has been following the "can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" policy, but it looks like sense of preserving a minimum level of quality in this game is starting to outweigh that.

Thanks for the maps!

Originally posted by Formologic23
This is really the sign that DoD:S is not what it once was, and it's future is definitely questionable. [/B]

I think the problem with DOD:S is a result of its stupid players, or perhaps a steeper learning curve with making custom content... so we get maps that are "out of context" and overly arcade like.

I think the game itself is great... I might be alone when I say I've always loved it more than 1.3, although there are obvious things about it that could use some work.

Originally posted by ultranew_b
I'm sure you spent several minutes creating this map and I applaude that, I just don't "get" the orange map thing.

@ Furyo and Neutrino, I map as a purely as a hobby, not to please others, if I make something and ppl like it, bonus!

:)

That's exactly what I said, one better map for pleasure these days, cause it would seem most players (from the top 10 list) would rather play orange maps anyway.

The difference (I would think) New_b, between your mindset and mine is I already spend all day mapping at work. If I'm going to come home to work on a personal project, or spend some of my week ends on it, I'd like to think that my map, though it could end up being the worst ever, would still be more popular than any orange map out there.

Yet it's not the case, and while the novelty of orange maps could have worn out in the end, it doesn't seem like a possible trend. So that makes me ask questions as to what this game is about and what players want, compared to my own vision of what it should/could be.

So when I start thinking about how to use my free time, you'll understand my doubts and concerns. I'm not saying I won't map, but I'd start thinking about venturing elsewhere. I actually have a HL2 SP mod somewhere in the back of my head.

Originally posted by Furyo
I'd like to think that my map, though it could end up being the worst ever, would still be more popular than any orange map out there.

Yet it's not the case, and while the novelty of orange maps could have worn out in the end, it doesn't seem like a possible trend. So that makes me ask questions as to what this game is about and what players want, compared to my own vision of what it should/could be.


i know. its sad that there are so many beautiful and fun maps that nobody play. Hopefully the popularity of more intricate customs will increase as people get better computers. i think a lot of people play those maps because theyre the only ones they can get a playable fps on. poor bums.

... in the meantime mappers, lets get creative and think of some more colors to make fight arenas out of. i would have considered playing this if it was dod_magenta_canyon.

Calling an orange map an "insult" to other mappers might be a bit too much. I understand "serious" mappers are disgruntled and demotivated when they see some oranges get more play than the map they spent countless hours working on, polishing and optimizing. But really why throw the stone at the mapper? What happened to constructive criticism? If I don't like playing flight sims as a genre, I'm not going to vent about how that particular one sucks.

The fact of the matter is that orange maps do get some serious play. If you look at the current custom top10 though, it's not that bad. You have almost as much time spent on Salerno than on Salerno_rc3. If you add up those times, Salerno is number one. Admittedly, if you were to look beyond the top10, the numbers might be worse for serious customs.

Orange mappers still go farther than 95% of the community has gone. Whatever you think the impact of their work is, they have produced something for an otherwise stale game. They're part of the family of mappers, modelers, texture artists, plug-in writers that makes the game better. Ideally the @#$ would sink and the good works would float to the top. Is it always the case? No. Who is to blame?

I assume mappers want their map to be played, and server operators want their server to fill up. No one forces anyone to play or praise orange maps. In the end, the players chose to play those maps. Personally, I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole, but how can you blame those who do if they're having fun?

Originally posted by nave
I think the problem with DOD:S is a result of its stupid players

So why is there so many people playing those maps, and so many great "real" customs being mostly ignored?

Performance issues have been mentioned. Take a look at the Steam Survey and remember not many have the kind of hardware you have. For those on older machines, how many frequent this forum, and how many are computer savvy enough to toy with their .cfg? I suspect that many players only know that while they're playing a slideshow on regular maps, they get good, playable fps on orange ones.

Download times. Oranges are a couple megs, download is almost instantaneous. Not everyone is going to stick for even a minute downloading 10, 15 or 30 megs of a custom that may or may not be good.

"Brand". With an orange map you mostly know what you're getting. For a Salerno, an Anvil, a Venteux, a Vigilance, how many hideous (albeit textured), unoptimized, badly laid out tunas? I can wait 10 seconds for an orange map, but would I wait a few minutes for an nondescript custom I have no clue about.

Instant gratification. Oranges have immediately apparent layouts. No textures or fancy brush works to catch the eye. You download it instantly, you immediately see how it's going to play, what the flows are, the good positions etc. Easy to get in the game (that is, if the dev textures are not an immediate turn off for you in the first place).

Do we have to conclude that a sizable portion of the DoD:S player base is pathologically impatient, unimaginative, apathetic, uncurious, not committed to or deeply involved with the game?

Maybe.

When no new official content has been introduced for months, when dozens (hundreds?) of servers full of fake clients are allowed to blur the landscape and make it harder for the few good servers to stand out and gather momentum, when new cvars are introduced with little to no explanation to players or server operators, when a large portion of the committed, enthusiast players of a WWII mod hasn't made the jump to source, when many current players chose to play oranges and disconnect when Anvil and the like come up, what's left for serious mappers to keep toiling on their works of art? As Furyo said, do it for yourself. And keep the faith - though I can't blame those who decide it's not worth it anymore.

:carrot:

Orange maps are an insult to the more "standard" maps, and to see they have this much success only further proves there really aren't many reasons for mappers to keep mapping for this game....except their own fun.....
EEKK!!
Don't quit on us, the custom community.
We don't run arena maps at SunLits in the daily mapcycle
It boggles the mind that the arena maps are so popular. It cant be the "look", necessary tactics or gameplay.

Players may have 30 minutes to kill. Browse the servers for a game. See a 32 man, arena server with real players and jump on.
Server operators trying to draw in new players to their regular community or seed an empty server, load up the arena maps as well. Stats go to the wind.

We run 26 custom maps on the mapcycle, have 70 accessible by votemap and 115 that can be loaded in by the admin. Neutrino, Furyo and Propaganda, all your maps are represented. The maps on the mapcycle are switched up as new maps are released. That dilutes any "hours" a map can rack up.

Its a shame that Valve cant provide a central download site for a "Custom Map of the Week/Month", accessible through the Steam interface.
It would solve the major hurdle of the mappers and custom map fans getting exposure for the custom maps to the greater community.
The War Report page is a good example of a possible format or even a link from the News page similar to the "FreeStuff" .
A link to a permanent download page with a list of maps.Two files for download, server and client and a screenshot....done .Valve could cover their butts in the fine print.

Thx Rosie for your support, we all know how respectable and supportive SunLit is. There are other groups of course that come to mind, but you'll agree that we are a dwindling kin...

Oh, on a more optimistic note, I'll soon have one of the major maps from the 1.3 era ported to Source (dod_cr44, remade with its original creator Kominaaa). We'll see if that can beat orange maps.

That is incredible news, Furyo!

I'm pretty much done mapping until they address and fix some issues with the game. I did the dod dust maps just for sunlit league as Rosie wanted to use dust as a league map.

Originally posted by ultranew_b
I'm sure you spent several minutes creating this map and I applaude that, I just don't "get" the orange map thing.

@ Furyo and Neutrino, I map as a purely as a hobby, not to please others, if I make something and ppl like it, bonus!

:)

The best way to deal with it, and frankly the only one that works.

I second that - mapping is art, not more and not less.

Especially to those who connect their future mapping ambitions to the "success" of a map:

The quality of a map can't be measured by the number of people that play on it - in fact, the opposite may usually be the case (q.e.d.).

Of course it's very satisfying when a map gets appreciated by the community - I'm also very thankful that right now about 100 players play on Edelweiss -, but that's only the cherry on top of the cream on top of the cake.

What really counts is that there is no definate connection between the number of servers that run a map and the quality of it. There's other factors for a map not getting played - sometimes it's the balancing, more than often it's big-time bugs, usually it's the download size. But - don't confuse that with missing quality or overall appreciation for the work you've put into the map.

I guess the thin line on which most quality mappers aka time-spenders balance is the ratio of "good looks" and "good gameplay". I'm still looking into this and I don't have a perfect formula yet :D, but every map I release beats the last one by far, and I'm certain this applies to all of us mappers.

So let's keep on mapping and consider the fun-maps just another branch of the game instead of seeing them as a concurrence stealing our well deserved public server slots : ))).

Cheers,

Albatros

Originally posted by ultranew_b
I'm sure you spent several minutes creating this map and I applaude that, I just don't "get" the orange map thing.

@ Furyo and Neutrino, I map as a purely as a hobby, not to please others, if I make something and ppl like it, bonus!

:)

I was once a mapper by hobby, but seeing as how I am most likely on my last map for DOD, I want to leave some impression on the community. And how can that be done if my work isnt played. It can be frustrating, because I dont map solely for myself. I map for the community, and try to give them what they want. But then for the most part, it is either unappreciated or unrecognized all together. And then to really tip the iceberg, its maps like these “orange arenas” that take a chunk out of my motivation. It’s the positive feedback I get from my posted screenshots that keep my going now.
dod_paysage and dod_harbor, I thought those two maps had a good balance of visuals and gameplay, but I rarely seeing either of them playing on at least one server at a time. So whats to say that wont happen with dod_aura? I will finish it of course, for the community.

I'm pretty much done mapping until they address and fix some issues with the game. I did the dod dust maps just for sunlit league as Rosie wanted to use dust as a league map.
Propaganda: we really appreciated it :)
Neutrino: Both paysage_b7 and harbor_rc1 are on our pub servers and tried and true match maps in the SLDL (http://www.sunlitgames.net/sldl_main.php). Maps from the DOD Source seasons 7 -10

anemia
anvil series
churchyard_b5
claviers_b2a
coire series
dijon
dust series
epicentre_b2d
grubbenvorst_rc3
harbor_rc1
hobofire
insecurity_rc1 (bouddha)
newcastle_final
railroad and rails_b2
salerno and salerno_rc3
solitude_comp
stug_rc1
tiger
venteux_final
vigilance_rc2

Id recommend these custom maps as a solid start to any server repetoire as they are good for both pub AND match play. This is by no means a complete list of the excellent custom maps available, just a starting place.

And gents, its not an exaggeration to say that you two retiring from mapping would be a tragedy for the community.

so you guys who are bummed about your maps not being played a lot, i understand how much work you put in. but i think its more of a matter that not many people play DOD. everyone i talk to who seriously plays the games knows all the good maps... they might not be getting as many minutes played as orange fight arena, but who cares. last night I played a great 32 player game of dod_expire. and last week at a party i ran into a guy that i played 1.3 with a couple times at a cyber cafe, and he got all excited talking about salerno and strand.

there's support, and i would have to say its only been increasing. i used to have to hunt for good customs, and would usually settle for playing avalanche or donner for the hundred millionth time, but now i can almost always find a good custom to play on.

for all you guys that are done with DOD, what are your plans for the future?
i have 2 projects that i want to finish, but after that i want to move on to something else besides DOD maps.... maybe a simple mod?

we've hijacked this thread hard style.

I saw a single post on topic way back mid page 2 lol.


I'm not even sure what to say... These orange maps are really saying that most people don't appreciate real custom maps. Couldn't we separate orange maps into a different forum? Or even just chuck them away and tell them to goto fpsbanana type of thing? I think they are only going to get flamed here. (rightly so too :P)

Originally posted by McJewels
but i think its more of a matter that not many people play DOD.

we've hijacked this thread hard style. This is the most true statement out of this hijacked thread.

As far as my plans for DoD:S go? Not sure...I ran a server, it failed. Will I do it again? Not until I get some updates that make the game worth running a server again that will bring new life to the game. I am really hoping for the EP2 code update for the long draw distances, which I hope will really change the way source maps (CSS, DoD:S) are made. I will play it occasionally in the meantime.

What also keeps me from playing is all the maps that are older versions running in server's rotations. I don't want to play salerno_rc3, I want to play dod_salerno. I don't want to play dod_whatever_bX when there is an RC version out. The new versions should replace the older versions IMHO, otherwise we could just make the betas and RC's final, and there wouldn't be any need.

Granted there are some maps out there that have some unfinished bug in the newer version, but I can only think of a couple off the top of my head. I see this everywhere and it's annoying. I hate having my steam folder filled with betas and rc's when a final is out.

No one cares that you have 200+ downloadable maps on your server. Keep the betas and RC's to a minimum, and when a final version comes out, replace the beta's and RC's.

My plans are this:

1) finish rive
2) make cr44
3) stop until TF2 comes along and I'm dying for it to come sooner rather than later. That style will renew all my creativity in 5 minutes tops.

As for orange maps, they definitely belong in this forum and won't go anywhere. I'm not going to set them apart. We all need to realize orange maps have become an important part of this game's custom community, and you'll notice my posts in this thread were in no way trying to change something, rather state my own view of them. Everyone's getting the same treatment here.

I won't quit mapping all together, I just see a real lack of support for this game by the devs, and we all know they are working on other things, and that's fine, it's good business for them. If they fix some of the glaring problems, I will map for dod again. Right now I am mapping for Insurgency (well I'm supposed to be anyway if I can get motivated) and working on stuff for cs and PVKII.

http://jfgclan.com/hockey/

http://jfgclan.com/pvk/

and yes, this thread has been massively hijacked....

....until TF2 comes along and I'm dying for it to come sooner rather than later. That style will renew all my creativity in 5 minutes tops.

it'll take you as long as that?

hmm, i wonder how many orange maps are lying around on hard drives all over the world, waiting for the release of tf2.

i'm scared now.....:(

The thread may seem hijacked, but it's still referring to the mapping style in question.


First of all, Cpt Ukulele - That was a decent post.

Originally posted by RosietheRiveter
Its a shame that Valve cant provide a central download site................

It's a shame Valve can't do alot of things, especially with this game at the moment.

Originally posted by Furyo
Oh, on a more optimistic note, I'll soon have one of the major maps from the 1.3 era ported to Source (dod_cr44, remade with its original creator Kominaaa). We'll see if that can beat orange maps.

This isn't really big news to (dare I say) most of the DoD:S community, as a huge part of it don't even know what DoD 1.3 (and previous) is - It may be 'just another map on the pile/another big download.' - Not that I mean this in a negative way. I'm all for grand maps, especially the old good'uns.


The only thing that really bothers me about mapping today is the hideous giant lettering scattered around the maps - Server IP's, names, clan advertising etc.

On realistic maps this just completely rapes the whole feel and enjoyment, imo.

The map this thread is relating to is another one of these.

Thanks for the map fish, but I'll pass on the giant flashing letters in spawn, thx.


ps. I'm so busy at work this post took about 2 hours to finish, and I've subsequently forgotten other points I wanted to add.

This thread should be stickied.

The only thing that really bothers me about mapping today is the hideous giant lettering scattered around the maps - Server IP's, names, clan advertising etc.
There's really not that many of them.

This is by far the best orange map I've played.

Great work!

Originally posted by Ol' Noodle Head
There's really not that many of them.


One is too many. And you'd be surprised, I've seen quite a few.

There are potentially great maps destroyed from this, imo.

Ok, first off, FishHeads is my father. Since he is busy, I'll reply to most of you guys comments... especially since there are three pages....

First off, my father is an accomplished mapper. He has been mapping for years and years.. so don't think he is some idiot making orange maps and thinking he is the big cheese. Maybe you should look at his other maps such as Swamp and Hurtgen Forrest(sp?).

Surprisingly, this map went through many phases and took much longer than a few minutes. And if you are going to judge before you even try.. well.. thats just sad. This is laid out a lot differently than a normal orange map, and with enough play testing, it will probably get changed quite a bit if he gets any feedback. I have to say he knows his way around maps well.. so don't think this map is just another PoS thrown together map.

Also, this map pulls better fps than any map you will put together. As of a few months ago, our 9800 pro burned out.. leaving us with a GeForce 3. So, why make a graphically intensive map? Do they add depth to the game? No. The orange textures work wonders for boosting your performance. Just look at the framerates.. I dare ya.

I guess.... in the end... all I have to say is.... someone might want to lay off the forums until their period passes. Orange maps are designed to be small, quick, and fun. You always know where the fight is. If you don't like em, don't play them.. I sure avoid them when I can find something better. But we all know they have a small place now in the community, whether it fits into your agenda or not.

As for the big name in spawn.. well.. he made a map and I got the credit for it.. lol.. so he decided to ensure it doesn't happen again I guess. That and maybe so the orange newbs might look into his other maps. I agree its a little silly.. but.. whatever floats your boat I guess..

Anything else? Just play it, if it ain't your style.. move on. Sitting here on the forums isn't going to get your own maps made and out on servers..

LeadPaint
Free Face Paintings Every Day

Thanks for keeping your head chilled when replying, I know many others wouldn't have.

I don't think the assumption was clearly made that any maker of an orange map is a complete newbie, at least not on my part, rather that orange maps are so easy to make they don't need an expert mapper to make them.

I guess what I'll retain from your reply however is that the main reason you play orange maps is for the FPS they procure. And I don't even have to check the FPS on orange maps to know they're higher, it's just purely logical. However to think that textures are responsible for a massive FPS drop is BS. textures are loaded into your RAM when you launch the map, sure the less you use the less load in your RAM, but we're talking peanuts here.

As for playing the game with a geforce III, you could easily get a very cheap card to change that one and have 3 times the performance you're getting now. You can get an AGP card that's better than the 9800 pro for 50 bucks these days....

Like I said before, the problem isn't orange maps, it's the success they have. That leaves us "standard maps" mappers asking ourselves questions as to the point of continuing. I guess by your post that half the community plays on 5 years old computers, and that's just disappointing. For the record, I'm one of those guys that run a 5 years old comp

Originally posted by LeadPaint Also, this map pulls better fps than any map you will put together. As of a few months ago, our 9800 pro burned out.. leaving us with a GeForce 3. So, why make a graphically intensive map? Do they add depth to the game? No. The orange textures work wonders for boosting your performance. Just look at the framerates.. I dare ya.

it doesnt have to be graphically intense to look half decent.
apply textures and its almost there. and the orange textures dont work wonders. they work just like most flat textures. im pretty sure its the lack of any detail in the map that is working your "wonders" for fps
and yes, i believe a scenerio set in the times of the war adds depth to the game, in more ways than one. it gives atmosphere, mood, and offers an obvious visual appeal to set the era. everything combined in a map adds depth. gameplay, sound, visuals, whatever...

Originally posted by Neutrino
it doesnt have to be graphically intense to look half decent.
apply textures and its almost there. and the orange textures dont work wonders. they work just like most flat textures. im pretty sure its the lack of any detail in the map that is working your "wonders" for fps

:PARROT: beat me to it:PARROT:

I think JFG will hold an "arena map contest". What we can do is challenge mappers to creating a small, deathmatch arena style map without the dev texture that runs high frames and looks decent. Who's in? We will give a new gfx card to the winner.

Double post sorry

Originally posted by Propaganda
:PARROT: beat me to it:PARROT:

I think JFG will hold an "arena map contest". What we can do is challenge mappers to creating a small, deathmatch arena style map without the dev texture that runs high frames and looks decent. Who's in? We will give a new gfx card to the winner.

it could be a good boost to the standards of arena maps

I like playing DODS because of it's WWII style setting. When you enter these very forums this is what it says,

"Day of Defeat: Source features multiplayer, team-based gameplay set in the WWII European theatre of operations. Players choose a role and tackle goal-oriented missions based on historical operations.

Day of Defeat: Source takes the classic gameplay of the original Day of Defeat and improves the experience with Source, the advanced engine technology Valve created for Half-Life 2. With this technology, DoD: Source offers state of the art graphics (including support for HDR lighting) in optimized versions of popular maps, plus redesigned sound and all new player, weapon, and world models.

New Features:

War Status Report for gameplay statistics
Completely updated maps to take full advantage of the Source engine
Integrated physics simulation for realistic gravity, friction, and bouyancy
Greater detail in textures, models, and surfaces for added realism
Improved lighting, shadows, and reflections through bump mapping, specular and HDR lighting.
Completely redesigned user interface
All new voice, weapon, and ambient sounds"

The first 2 sentences say it all for me, "Day of Defeat: Source features multiplayer, team-based gameplay set in the WWII European theatre of operations. Players choose a role and tackle goal-oriented missions based on historical operations."

I don't recall any orange (or other solid colored) towns in my history books. Maybe there needs to be an arena type mod put in place where these maps can be displayed and played instead of dragging down the game I love to play.

LeadPaint we play Swamp quite a bit on our server. I think your dad did a great job on that map! I don't know how historically correct it is but it's got a great atmosphere to it and a WWII'ish feel. I would like to try the other map he made. Can I get a link to download and try out the other map.

The problem I have with the colored arena maps is that they seem to be more deathmatchy to me. I like a well layed out map with multiple routes and places in it for different styles of game play. This game to me is supposed to simulate some of what fighting in WWII might have been like without actually loosing your life or your best buddies life.

Sorry if this is off topic and no disrespect to your dad LeadPaint but in my opinion maps in DODS should reflect what this game is about.

JCC

Originally posted by fishheads
Feedback welcome as this is the first beta. Enjoy.

Fish Heads (o>

It looks OK to me, there are so many of these maps :)

This one stands out a little more from the rest of the orange maps... more spots to duck and weave sniper/mg fire, some of the orange maps get too hard to play when they get a mg or sniper firing into the spawn area.

I think these maps are a breeding ground of a sort and may be of some use in developing parts of the game. (I admit to playing these ... and actually enjoying them.) But, they are all starting to look the same and play the same.

There is some more room for development with these maps but it's not in their basic lay-out! The ones that introduce something out of the ordinary, more like the adjusted dod_flash map that you have to move a tank through the map.

For me, I will enjoy a few in a row but they all seem to turn into massive nade/mg/sniper spawn killing disappointments, that is dead boring and the players leave the server.

Please... when making these put a bit more effort into introducing a bit more gameplay, a complex tunnel system, a out-of-the-ordinary objective system to cap out... anything... but make it stand out in game play!

Overall, for a orange map, this gets the thumbs up from me.

Originally posted by Furyo

Like I said before, the problem isn't orange maps, it's the success they have. That leaves us "standard maps" mappers asking ourselves questions as to the point of continuing. I guess by your post that half the community plays on 5 years old computers, and that's just disappointing. For the record, I'm one of those guys that run a 5 years old comp

Yup, Do I bother making more maps for DOD? After I finish the two I'm working on, I think I'll move on to better things. Hopefuly RnL, for example, because DoD isn't getting any classier.
Jez my computer's getting on too, for some reason about once every month I have to degrade to video settings on DoD. I think my computer is going backwards...

Just a note to all people talking about how they play for realism etc. blah blah:

Maybe some people also like to play for fun?


All in all, no one is ever forced to do anything in an online game.

If it's not for you, avoid it. At least supply feedback as requested by the creator, instead of just letting everyone know how much you hate this style of map.

I will be very sad if all my favorite map makers stop making them for source. You guys are the ones who have kept this game alive, while the dev team has been on hiatus. In my opinion the best maps is source are customs you all have made.

I would have quit playing long ago if it wasn't for your efforts. I look every day in the release section to see what new stuff may be out.

how fun are maps like nuerenberg (wish it was smaller though), paysage (rosie missed it but we played that in sldl too), anvil, strand, tunisia, vigilance, grubbenvorst, ventuex, Pier, harbor, dijon, battlebridge, flurry, fuel, mortimer, salerno, stug, tiger and expire? frigging awesome.

While i was reading this i completely forgot i was in the mapping section, hahahahahaha. thanks fellas

Originally posted by LeadPaint
So, why make a graphically intensive map? Do they add depth to the game? No. The orange textures work wonders for boosting your performance. Just look at the framerates.. I dare ya.

If everyone thought like that we'd still be playing Asteroids. The official maps would play the same if they were dev-textured, but then no one would even buy the game, which is why it's confusing that so many people play and make these maps when it only takes a few days of texturing and adding a few props to make them look half decent.
And strangely, half these maps actually don't have playable FPS. I've spent months getting dogsector to a semi-playable state, when I can join a 'fun-map' server that's just an orange box (or in the cases where they do use real textures, walls glowing from using prop textures) filled with hundreds of props and no optimisation or even a full vis compile, that runs at single-figure fps. Using these textures and putting 'orange' in the name just seems like a way of making your map more popular.

I haven't played this map so I don't know what the gameplay is like, but if you're going to spend the time coming up with a layout and creating a map, the only reason you could have for not spending the extra time needed to make the map at least look like it could be set in 1944 is popularity. People can play and make these maps if they want, but why do they even think of making them for a WW2 game? Most of them would work fine in a DM game like HL2DM so it just makes no sense that people want to make them for dod:s.

Please keep this thread on topic, as I have created this thread for the ongoing 'texture maps' discussion: http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71077


I have done this in an attempt to allow this thread to be used for what it was intended.



ps. You can jump into spawn from the sandbags and ledges out the front. You may want to consider creating better spawn protection.

Thanks for this map, I love Dev maps. They are a great way to have some fun spamming nades and not worrying about my ratio. Keep em coming!

Textures are for noobs... :rolleyes:

I feel like I can contribute a little on this having spoken to and worked with a lot of mappers during the time I worked for CAL DODs and still have some things on the back burner even now with a couple other mappers.

I've noticed that there are two kinds of mappers, those that do it as a hobby and don't really care what the community thinks of their creations and those that map to get their map actually played.

Removing the Orange maps from the picture, you'll notice the the most popular maps all are similar. They are small, faced paced and force the players into choke points. These maps, most of them standards, will keep you "in the game" and not running across a large map to find other players to shoot at.

There are some fantastic looking maps thare are huge, but they are never going to be poplular because the design doesn't allow for quick and sustained action. I know a lot of mappers look at custom "league" maps with disdain, but there's a reason league and standard maps are popular and it's something that should be taken into account when you sit down to start your next project.

Also, take into account that your single map can be played in different ways. Using this forum you can set standards for how to name maps that I'm sure most people would follow. You can release ctf, det and tdm versions of your maps. If you don't like Orange maps for the dev colors, take one of your maps, put random spawns everywhere and rename it tdm_mapname and release it. The people playing Orange maps aren't playing them just because they are Orange, they want the deathmatch gamemode and that's the place to find it.

Like I said...if someone took Donner and reduced it to just the main street w/three cap points...a flag at the entrance of each sniper area with the spawns protected in the sniper houses or around the corners...keep the mid exactly as it is (two-capper)...that would be the Sourcification of the Orange concept. You'd probably have to keep the old bunker area and redirect the path somewhat but the overall concept map would be simple...main path up the middle and two side paths.

You could drop both original spawns completly, block off visibility to the original one-flag locations, use nodraw and remove unseen brushwork and models and you'd have a small, tight, deathmatchy map.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
Like I said...if someone took Donner and reduced it to just the main street w/three cap points...a flag at the entrance of each sniper area with the spawns protected in the sniper houses or around the corners...keep the mid exactly as it is (two-capper)...that would be the Sourcification of the Orange concept. You'd probably have to keep the old bunker area and redirect the path somewhat but the overall concept map would be simple...main path up the middle and two side paths.

You could drop both original spawns completly, block off visibility to the original one-flag locations, use nodraw and remove unseen brushwork and models and you'd have a small, tight, deathmatchy map.


A nice point, and I like the idea, but this wouldn't be legal, right?

You would either need to remake the map yourself, or retrieve the original from Valve (who, as I understand, will not release it for this or any other default DoD:S map).

Nothing illegal about it.

Originally posted by ultranew_b
Nothing illegal about it. Yeah, that's what I thought.

Look at maps like flashtank and flashatnight...if it were illegal, those maps would've caught flak from Valve by now.

Here you can see three standards that have been edited:

Flag version of jagd:
http://www.rivalsonline.net/files/maps/dods/dod_jagd+_b2.zip

Anzio+ is cleaned up a bit, improved fps and the cubby hole is back
http://www.rivalsonline.net/files/dode/dod_anzio+_b1.zip

Donner with some features from 1.3 donner back
http://www.rivalsonline.net/files/dode/dod_thunder_b1.zip

Originally posted by FuzzDad
Like I said...if someone took Donner and reduced it to just the main street w/three cap points...

Fuzzdad, if you give up sleeping, you could easily do this in your spare time! ;)

Originally posted by Guyver
Yeah, that's what I thought.

Look at maps like flashtank and flashatnight...if it were illegal, those maps would've caught flak from Valve by now.


I just recall someone asking in another thread about having a map edited, and the responses were:

1. Make the entire map again yourself (in which case it would be legal)
2. Ask Valve for the original files (which they wouldn't give legally)


Personally, I think the 'other' versions of the default maps are much better.


Originally posted by Bennett*
Here you can see three standards that have been edited:

Flag version of jagd:
http://www.rivalsonline.net/files/maps/dods/dod_jagd+_b2.zip

Anzio+ is cleaned up a bit, improved fps and the cubby hole is back
http://www.rivalsonline.net/files/dode/dod_anzio+_b1.zip

Donner with some features from 1.3 donner back
http://www.rivalsonline.net/files/dode/dod_thunder_b1.zip

I think I'll use all of those :D

Originally posted by Pan
I just recall someone asking in another thread about having a map edited, and the responses were:

1. Make the entire map again yourself (in which case it would be legal)
2. Ask Valve for the original files (which they wouldn't give legally)


As I undersand it, you can alter/edit stock maps as long as you don't try to profit from it.

People use mapmodels from the stock maps in their custom maps all the time (or atleast quite frequently.)

Originally posted by Pan
I just recall someone asking in another thread about having a map edited....

This is the thread (and responses) I'm talking about:

http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69746

props to the original author though is mandatory in my opinion, permission too if its a custom. I would say the same for the officials..but I am not sure you would get a response.

Originally posted by Pan
This is the thread (and responses) I'm talking about:

http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69746 Yes, but you'll notice he was talking about adding more spawn points. Maps like flashtank and flashatnight didn't need more points.

Originally posted by Bennett*
Here you can see three standards that have been edited:

Flag version of jagd:
http://www.rivalsonline.net/files/maps/dods/dod_jagd+_b2.zip

Anzio+ is cleaned up a bit, improved fps and the cubby hole is back
http://www.rivalsonline.net/files/dode/dod_anzio+_b1.zip

Donner with some features from 1.3 donner back
http://www.rivalsonline.net/files/dode/dod_thunder_b1.zip


Are there anymore maps like this?

Originally posted by Pan
Are there anymore maps like this?

Not yet, but there will be updates to these. I take it you like them?

jagd makes a better flag map imo.

Originally posted by Bennett*
Not yet, but there will be updates to these. I take it you like them?

jagd makes a better flag map imo.


They are fecking GREAT!

We played the jagd ctf version for about 2 hours in a row as soon as they were uploaded :D

These and flashatnight are great remakes of defaults.



Can't wait for more.

I personally like the originals of donner and anzio more. aside from the minor gameplay/layout changes, there are a ton a graphical problems: messed up overlays, floating faces that someone forgot to delete, no 3D skyboxes at all???

i guess its cool to have some change.. but its not significant enough to play IMHO.

... and the poster advertisements are..... nm

I personally like the originals of donner and anzio more. aside from the minor gameplay/layout changes, there are a ton a graphical problems: messed up overlays, floating faces that someone forgot to delete, no 3D skyboxes at all???

i guess its cool to have some change.. but its not significant enough to play IMHO.

... and the poster advertisements are..... nm

Posters won't be there in the next releases.

Anzio will have allied access to church back in the next version and the donner one is still being tweaked. Remember these don't replace the standards in your server, you can play both.

Yeah, I was a bit peeved after noticing all those poster adverts.

As long as they won't be in future releases ;p



Love the edited defaults.. Keep 'em coming.

Posters won't be there in the next releases.

Anzio will have allied access to church back in the next version and the donner one is still being tweaked. Remember these don't replace the standards in your server, you can play both.

cool. more changes, more reason to use these.