Originally posted by =A82A=WhataMack in another thread
The thing is, you don't get fog when it's cold; you get fog when the air temperature rises. This is absolutely correct :)

But to be honest, it's just a sticking point, that's why aI've never said anything about any of the snow maps with fog. You see, fog takes the place of limiting your vision like actual snowfall would. However trying to use REAL snowfall looks like poop on computer screens, So using fog as a medium is the trade-off. In real life your eyes adjust PAST the flakes falling in front of your face, so you don't really see them, but on a game without depth perception (all because it's not possible) you are almost blinded by all the flakes in your face.

NOW, if someone could only find a way to take the same draw distance variables used for grass and such and REVERSE them to apply to snowfall, or use a modified fog draw distance, then you'd really have something as long as it didn't kill your FPS

Well yeah, Wile E, but you can certainly have a lot of snow on the ground and fog at the same time. Happens a lot here in New England, especially in early Spring. :)

Originally posted by =A82A=WhataMack
Well yeah, Wile E, but you can certainly have a lot of snow on the ground and fog at the same time. Happens a lot here in New England, especially in early Spring. :) :D

Okay I have never seen it but I believe you, which caused me to do some quick research

Q: Is it possible to have fog when it's raining?

A: Yes. In fact, rain sometimes helps fog form. As rain falls, a little water evaporates from the drops, which makes the air a little more humid. If the air is already very humid, the added water evaporated from raindrops can make it humid enough for fog to form. This is called "precipitation fog" and usually occurs on dreary days when the clouds are low.

Falling snow can also create precipitation fog because ice can turn directly into water vapor, without first melting into water and then evaporating.

You'll find more about fog, and clouds, by going to our Understanding clouds and fog page. Taken from http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/askjack/archives-clouds-precip.htm

However, I have to admit my personal experince has overwhelmingly "no fog when snowing" :) This is because, very generally speaking from what I have read, fog is create by rapid temperature cooling/changes near the earth's surface. It is usually already pretty cold before it starts snowing

http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8f.html

we get fog and snow here. Its usually on a weird day when its freezing so far up and very warm right around the ground. its eerie as hell though.

I live about 50ft off a river and theres always fog when it rains here...

Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
[B]:D

However, I have to admit my personal experince has overwhelmingly "no fog when snowing" :) This is because, very generally speaking from what I have read, fog is create by rapid temperature cooling/changes near the earth's surface. It is usually already pretty cold before it starts snowing



You need to visit Salt Lake City, UT. It usually has to warm up just above freezing for it to snow. Not to mention lake effect snow. Cool air mass hits the warmer air just above a body of water. Snows like crazy and it usually is very overcast and gray.....

well I've been looking through pics on the internet (google addict I am) and apparently I've just been living in all the wrong places :) However I MUST admit that although many of the pics I saw looked like they were on mountainsides (and therefore not really fog but clouds), I can find PLENTY of pics of fog with snow on the ground.

Still, back to my original questions I tossed up in the air

- is it possible to have an enviroment effects like snow and rain faded in and out just like the fogging effects and grass sprites
- Even if it is, do you think it would be a resource killer or would it have no profound effect on FPS?

I personally think the fog effect works, and looks, just great on snow maps, and is a good FPS saver. However I always never truly feel like it's snowing, just wondering if there is another way to do business!

None I know of. The func_precipitation entity doesn't have fading distances either

Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
I personally think the fog effect works, and looks, just great on snow maps, and is a good FPS saver. However I always never truly feel like it's snowing, just wondering if there is another way to do business!Well, just because there's snow on the ground in the map, doesn't mean it has to be snowing right then (obviously). In dod_flurry, for example, it looks to me like it's late winter because all the water's completely frozen up, especially the waterfall. So all the snow in the map could have been there for several months.

I haven't played Red Orchestra at all, but seeing as how that takes place on the Russian front, what do they do for snowy maps? Do they have any falling snow, or just snow on the ground?

ehhhhh

You miss the point. It's not "the maps need this", the point was more "if you wanted to, could you"

I was curious. I have about 4 hours experience of actual source mapping, which is a roundabout way of saying I don't know crap. I ask questions ;)

Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
:D

Okay I have never seen it but I believe you, which caused me to do some quick research
I've seen it happen all the time in Massachusetts. The Tyndall Effect is very pronounced near streetlights at night after a snow.

While not completely on topic i thought i should post this here

I just got a new fog effect working and it looks much better than the default snow_falling offered by the func_precipitation

I replaced the fleck_ash materials (3 in total) with some custom ones that look like snow and when your map is finished just compile them into the .bsp, this will load the materials only when your map loads and wont overwrite the client's ash materials

The effects is about twice as dense, slower moving and almost twice as thick creating a much nicer looking snow fall

Originally posted by Someth|ngW|cked
While not completely on topic i thought i should post this here Actually it is ;)

Originally posted by Someth|ngW|cked
I just got a new fog effect working and it looks much better than the default snow_falling offered by the func_precipitation......

The effects is about twice as dense, slower moving and almost twice as thick creating a much nicer looking snow fall Anything coming out with an example of this effect? Curious to see what you've done!

My next map after caen_classic ;)

Originally posted by Someth|ngW|cked
I replaced the fleck_ash materials (3 in total)

Where exactly are these 3 materials located? I've been looking with GCFScape and haven't found them.

:)

Materials/Effects

The file names are Fleck_ash1, Fleck_ash2 and Fleck_ash3

There is also a material called Ember_swirling001, this is a particle that flys up, you can either replace this with a material that is completely invisable or another snow flake

Also rmemeber that these materials will not be in your cgfs if you do not have Episode 1 installed so you can just create them yourself

Could someone possibly send me the Fleck_ash materials from Episode 1? The .vmf and .vmt files.

I do not own Episode 1 yet, so I don't have that cfg. Sorry Valve. :p

I need the originals so I can replace them. I don't know the size, format etc of the original vmt and vmf files.

I'm almost done the next beta of dod_flurry and would love to have a heavier snowfall, it was my original "vision" of the environment. The current snow is really nice and all, it's just not dense enough for this particular instance.


It would be much appreciated,

:)

ultranew_b@yahoo.ca

You dont need toe original files and the size does not really matter bbecause the engine resizes them automaticly for the effect but i would reccomend something like 64X64

Make sure the VMT looksl ike this

"UnlitGeneric"
{
"$basetexture" "effects/fleck_ash1"
"$translucent" 1
"$vertexcolor" 1
"$vertexalpha" 1
}

Seeing as this is another rain thread, I still believe it should look like:

http://summit.outervoid.net/pub/gewitter.mpg

!!

If a modified Quake3 engine can handle something so beautiful, Source should be able to do it no worries!

Even Unreal 2 had extremely realistic snow ;)

I am not a mapper but will offer my 2 cents.

I lived in montreal for 5 years for what it is worth.

you definately get snow and fog together...at elevation you might get cloud and snow together.

those crisp clear days are typically after the snow has already fallen. in fact it always seems a bit "warmer" when snow is falling than when it is not. you certainly can get a warmer day with fog and snow....a north east type effect. wet damp snow and air.

Thanks for the info wicked. :)

I still need at one of the original vmf files (even a screenshot of it). I need to know exactly the size and what it looks like (like a snowflake, a round white blurry edged blob or what?), guessing is not fun.

A picture is worth 1000 words.

Size does matter, cause it can ultimately effect performance if its too big, etc.

What I don't understand is why if I can see snowfall ingame, why do I not have the files that make it?...odd

Sorry for being a pain.

:D

You can see the snowfall because the snow has nothing to do with the fleck_ash materials, the snow was introduced with dod_kalt... The ash materials are strictly Episode 1 files right now but the SDK still allows you to compilee Ash Fall using the func_precipitation but you will only see purple/black checharboards without the materials the engine references

The snow is a a seperate effect . . .

What i did was took the materials used to make the ash effect in the func_precipitation and replaced them with materials that look like snow because the ash fall is much more dense, thicker and falls slower than the snowfall effect. . .

The default size of the ash textures are 32X32, the size does not matter because the image is a single color which will be the same file size no matter how large you make the image . . ., the thing that makes file size larger is the size of the color pallet saved with the image or if you have transparency at that resolution, e.i. the alpha channel all you need to do is create a pure white, or blueish white texture in photoshop at like 32X32then create an alpha channel for it of a radial gradient (white inside and black outside) and save it as a VTF with the names of the ash textures then ingame you will see your effect by using the Ash Fall in the func_precipitation

Thanks for the info wicked !! Finally got it working !:)

It does indeed look much nicer.

There is a serious downfall to it though, it rapes fps. It uses alot more resources than the normal snowfall (because it has more sprites).


I wish Valve would create a snow system that has a 1/2 spherical (snow) volume attached to the player (ie. 256 - 512 units). This volume would follow the player through out the level at all times. For indoor areas the mapper would create a "no snow" volume, that tells the engine to not render snow in the player attached volume. It would be more customizable as well giving the mapper more control over the amount of snowfall.

I'm thinking this system would be much less resource dependant as the snow is rendered in a small area only consistently as opposed to a large volume(s).

As it is now, the mapper creates large volumes in the level and the snow is rendered in the volume.

Edit: This is possibly how the Unreal engine makes snow. I'm not positive (without checking) as its been awhile since i've mapped with Unreal.

:(

I just got a good chuckle picturing players running around Kalt with a little sphere of falling snow surrounding their heads :)

Kinda like all of them got their heads stuck in one of those snow globe thingies.

I'd have this strong urge to pick up dead players and shake them to start the snow falling again :)