Hey guys,

I have searched the forums, and I have found some of the answers im looking for, however there seems to be alot left unsaid.

I am looking for info on Map Ownership. I realize that Valve owns the tools which we use to create our maps, however it is my understanding that we as the mapper who created it, own the IP rights to it. That is my understanding and interpretation of the US Copyright laws.

The reason this is being brought up here is that I created a map called dod_4_towers . An ex-member of my clan has recently created and released a map called dod_four_towers.

He and I have been holding some civilized dialogue about whether his map is a rip off or wether since he claims he didnt decompile it and made it from scratch, its a legitimate new map.

I would love to hear what you guys have to say, as many of you have been doing this alot longer than I have.

***A Little Background***

Ex-members of our clan formed a new Clan. As things weren't left on the best of terms, we asked them not to host our maps on their servers, and we would also reciprocate. Without going into too much detail that really isnt that prevalent, they created this "new" map soley because they miss playing it. IMHO, it was done to draw pubbers to their not so full server (many of you who have played my map may recognize that it can be a player magnet).

Here are 2 images for you to judge by. The first is a shot of my map, and the second is a shot of his taken from approx the same angle:

http://www.fps-source.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/mine1.JPG

His:

http://www.fps-source.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10010/dod_four_towers_NR_b2%20pic%202.JPG

OMG...well, as a non-mapper, you'd have to be blind not to see that the second map is a virtual copy of the first. If I were a copyright judge I'd say there's complete infringement here.

Those are my feelings too. There are more pics of the underground area too, but they too are 95% exact.

i didn't even notice they were different until the others said something. If thats what you were looking for then kudos but as they said the copyright thing is not cool, at least ask permission.

I find it extremely hard to believe that this new map was made from scratch, and even harder that it was made without decompiling the original. To be able to retain in one's memory the exact dimensions and props placements, down to a single unit is simply inhuman.

With that said, I can only reiterate my advice concerning vmf protection from vmex. Well I know it's a little late now, but really if there's anything you can do Doc, it's that. Because before you go down the copyrights road with them, you really want to weigh in the pros and the cons.....

I find it extremely hard to believe that this new map was made from scratch, and even harder that it was made without decompiling the original. To be able to retain in one's memory the exact dimensions and props placements, down to a single unit is simply inhuman.

With that said, I can only reiterate my advice concerning vmf protection from vmex. Well I know it's a little late now, but really if there's anything you can do Doc, it's that. Because before you go down the copyrights road with them, you really want to weigh in the pros and the cons.....

Thanks for your input on this Furyo. Having played many of your maps, and knowing that you have been around since the dawn of time, i value your take on this.

With the exception of the original release of my map, all other version have had the vmf protection in them. Unfortuneatly, as he was a member of our clan around that time, I am sure he still has the original.

As far as going down that road, I wouldnt really want to, nor do I have the resources that would be required. I do believe though that I am in the right here.

I made that map for the enjoyment of the DODS community. Having been first a HL fanatic, and then a CS junky, I have played and enjoyed this scene for far to long, and I wanted to give something back, which i try to do with each map I make.

As most of you know, it takes alot of time to create a map even when its the simplest design. It irritates me to no end when people do things like this.

isnt there a date compiled into the bsp or do i see things when it gets compiled?

Technically, you could sue him and probably win...but think of the legal costs involved, and what you get out of it. Best to probably consult a solicitor.

Originally posted by [BDS]Doc
Thanks for your input on this Furyo. Having played many of your maps, and knowing that you have been around since the dawn of time, i value your take on this.


mmm thx for that, but I think you got the wrong guy :) I only made one map and have only been playing DoD since early 2003... ;)

My guess is you're thinking of Fuzzdad, and it wouldn't be the first time someone confuses us two (happened before on the steam forums). Not that it's shameful, I rather take it as a compliment :)

hm, i suppose its the F in your names that has me hosed :cool:

Be that as it may, i do appreciate your input, and I know that you are a respected member of these forums.

Thanks

I don't think you can, nor should you be able to, prevent other public servers from playing publicly available maps. Once your map is released into public domain, there is nothing you can do to prevent it from being played on other public servers.

However, the map that he created IS a blatant rip-off of your intellectual property, and that is a completely different matter. He ripped off your work, and that shouldn't be permitted.

I don't think you can, nor should you be able to, prevent other public servers from playing publicly available maps. Once your map is released into public domain, there is nothing you can do to prevent it from being played on other public servers.

I agree with you there. Mostly it was a "we want complete and total seperation and disassociation" type of a situation. Since we were not going to be playing theres, we didnt want them playing ours.

Thanks for the input

My mom raised me right
SunLits wont be hosting any "ripoffs"
You lads should get things worked out

SUE HIM!
nah that'd be a waste o cash, just like, hack him or somethin, lol jk
DONT HACK!
DONT HACK!

:crown:
:vader:

Rosie,

I appreciate that support. Thanks. We are currently trying to work things out, but he & his clan can't see the problem with this.



Rooster,

you actually made me LOL when I read your post. Thanks

He staight up ripped you off. But I see it as kind of the same as dod_charlie and dod_strand. Dustin Diamond ported the map from 1.3 to source. Think of dod_four_towers as a port of dod_4_towers... except porting from your server to theirs. :p Ok that barely made sense, but what do you expect when you make a popular map and don't let other people play it on their servers? In a legal sense, yea he ripped you off... but he wanted it on his server and did what he needed to. By all means, it was low for him to put his name on the maps walls as if it were his map... but it was probably in spite of your demand.

If I were him I would have just ran your map anyway. Actaully I probably wouldn't. I'd run something sweeter like campazzo. Sorry! :cool:

Unless you have a patent on the design of the map, you can't do anything if it remotely looks like yours. Basically, if someone wrote "I love you", that's basically copyrighted material. If you copy-paste it, you're in infrigment, if you re-write it, then you're not.

Tough cookies.

But to be honest, his version looks like crap and the finition isn't very appealing. I like yours better.

Well to be honest his looks a tad better visually but i am not a huge fan of DM style maps for dod

Now as far as him ripping off your idea it is obvious that his map is a complete rip off and while there is not much that can be done he is morally wrong and if he is a cool dude he will just admit that and at the very least give credit where it is due . . . if not then he is a prick and you should just be done with him

Doc, the problem that I see is that you're too polite. Staple the word "HATE" into your forehead and show up at his house with dried blood running down your face.

Hey Nave,

Thanks for the input. As I said before, it wasn't a demand that they not play it on their server, it was a mutual decision that we wouldnt play theres, and they wouldnt play ours. As for playing campazzo, no worries, my maps aren't for everyone :cool:


Dash,

Appreciate your input too. More or less I started this thread only to get a feel for how our mapping community felt on this issue. I know im not the first guy to have this happen, and truthfully this isn't the first time its happened to me.


Someth|ngW|cked,

Thanks to you as well for putting your thoughts down in this thread. As the conversation between he & I progressed, it turned more and more into "hes a prick" than he was going to remain mature about it. Since it was on their forums, I had no control over the posts, and his clan resorted to editing them all to something innapropriate to the conversation.


GoGurt,

Good stuff! Gave me a good laugh this morning. Thanks for adding your thoughts to the thread, its appreciated.

Originally posted by [BDS]Doc
As for playing campazzo, no worries, my maps aren't for everyone :cool:


You'll always have a place in my heart with dod_axis_are_<3<3<3<3ed, though. They really were <3<3<3<3ed, man.:p

You'll always have a place in my heart with dod_axis_are_<3<3<3<3ed, though. They really were <3<3<3<3ed, man.

HAHA yeah man, they really were!