In a nutshell:

1) Removed the long path from axis two to allied one and replaced it w/the ability to move from allied one to the hotel under cover.
2) Removed the path behind the church. Removed the ability to get to the second floor of the buildings around the mid cap. Removed the ability to enter the house near axis two. Removed the ability to get to the second floor near allied one. Removed the balcony that allowed you access to the bombed out house near the mid cap.
3) Added realistic shell holes to buildings and walls to facilitate optimization tricks and for their "coolness" factor (the hotel was the great beneficiary for this).
4) Lowered some walls near both spawns to reduce spawn camping.
5) Redesigned part of the axis spawn exit near axis two to thwart spawn camping.
6) Moved allied two into the middle of the field rather than up against the wall.
7) Moved allied one slightly to block views coming from the hotel area.
8) Moved back some walls with view to the mid cap to facilitate cap defending.
9) Worked to eliminate the sound loop problem but I don't think I've licked it yet.
10) Replaced the flag objectives on all caps points with new models except the mid cap; Allied 1 AA-gun, Allied 2 Half-Track, Axis 1 Scout Car, Axis 2 Kubelwagen
11) Fps marginally better in some places, much more so in others. It should run better as a whole.
12) Made certain physics objects non-interfering.
13) Removed all functioning doors.
14) Redesigned certain area's to a more realistic look.

A two week effort designed to get me mapping again at full throttle. The combined effect of the changes has cleaned up gameflow, made combat more predictable and the map seems to be more fun to play. There is a give-and-take to gameplay now that I think is missing in the regular anvil. The changes relating to the removal of most of the second floor area's appears to be the reason gameplay is smoother (less camping out in windows) and the addition of the long pathway through the hotel down to allied one has concetrated combat there. It sounds like I've removed a gazillion things that made anvil/falaise what they were...but you'll have to trust me on this...this version is by far the best in terms of gameplay and gameflow and I think it will appeal to both pubbers and competitive players as well.

Combat has a great flow to it now. We're in the final stages of playtesting. CoJ, DoDF, and CAL are participating. Pics are WIP and do not reflect final offering.


http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/1.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/2.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/3.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/4.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/5.jpg


then 6-14 I think...

Originally posted by FuzzDad 2) Removed the path behind the church. FuzzDad, this is the only thing that IMO is a shame. I've always felt the little graveyard behind the church was one of the most realistic and coolest looking parts of any DoD map I've ever played. Many is the time where I'd be moving through there with someone, and I'd have them stop and look around with me, and we'd both comment on how well done it was. :)

I removed it because it ruined organized defense of Axis one. Sometimes you have to cut out the things that look good because they don't fit the version of gamepl;ay you want. You can still see some of the graveyard so not all is lost.

I think this is exactly what this map needs. Although it's a great looking map it doesn't get as much play as it should because some people feel it's too big, too many paths. Should tighten it up for faster action and less house camping. Good call.

I'm disappointed at how many things were removed. One of the best things about Anvil, IMO, is the number of different routes one could take to get to different parts of the map. Now it seems like you're changing the map, not for the better, but simply to please DoD's mass audience that wants totally linear, predictable, repetitive gameplay. We already have 8 of those kinds of maps. We don't need another.

Anyways, I'll save my final judgement for when I actually play it.

I like the sound of the changes, although I have to say I miss the advanced starting spawns. I loved the frenetic nade fest that started each round

As an aethetic guy, I don't love the use of those cs_italy windows :/ If you look at the official DOD:S maps Valve isn't using those types of windows for the france/germany campaign areas.

Try to phase out all hl2 textures as well for things like indoors... they are just low quality compared to the newer DOD stuff.

The door in image one has a visible dark seem, thats supposed to be in the midsection of the walls. Move it back a tad.

Alpha blend the streets to get some variation of look on them too, a bit plain atm.

And your railings (shot1).... ugh they have always been pretty nasty looking. I'm sure you could have someone model up some customs to fit the scene better than having gaps in the rails every what, 64 units?

Other than those little nitpicks I am very excited :)

I loved the original map, falaise. I raved about that map. Anvil removed many of the things I loved, but it is still a good map. Now once again I am hearing about "directing gameplay" and "smoother" and "removing paths". This saddens me. I am trying to have faith in your judgement but if this keeps going the way it is I fear that while it will probably be a good map it will be just another version of the the same old maps we already have. I am not saying I think it will be bad; I know it won't. I'm just saying the things that made me fall in love with the original are slowly vanishing.

Still, I cannot deny the power of the masses. Many maps with completely linear gameplay are the most popular, although to be fair much of that reason is because the defaults are played the most and the defaults are linear.

The thing to understand is that rat-maze maps really only appeal to a small select group of folks...usually custom mappers BTW. I've always thought gameplay on both falaise and anvil was lacking concentration. Sure, it's a big map w/lots of places to go but that's exactly why gameplay is so haphazord. The good thing to remember is the map is still the same overall size...I've just removed one major and one minor path (and replaced the major path w/new one) and removed almost all the upstairs overlooking windows. The impact should be the following:

More combat from face-to-face encounters and less dark-corner and window-based campers.

I can't think this is a bad thing. You still have flanking paths, you actually have more rubble, more cool WW2 models, better performance, and more "war" stuff in the map now than ever. I have not skimped on the new model sets so the map actually looks a lot more war-torn than it did and I did all that AND increased fps. And...dod_anvil is still out there so you get two versions for the price of one (absolutely freaking free) :)

Look at it this way...I stopped mapping for five months to rest up and now I'm back baby...nuttin wrong w/that!

Hurry up and release Flugplatz and Glider for Source. :p

Will be interested to see how this one plays, FD. I'm kind of split down the middle -- I like the 'go anywhere' feeling of anvil but I agree that it could use more focus. So I'll reserve judgement until I play anvil2. Until then, thanks for all the good work!

Mal

Added a few more pics...all WIP

Your work looks stellar Fuzz! I've always loved your maps. Anyways, enough ass-kissing... :P

I don't know if you've done this yet, but have you thought about removing the open-able(?) doors? It seems to me that the area between the allied spawn through the underside of the building to the axis cannon seems a little... not DOD:S. The problem for me is that none of the "official" DOD:S maps have doors. They have just always bothered me for that reason. :(

Cs

Originally posted by Cs42886
Your work looks stellar Fuzz! I've always loved your maps. Anyways, enough ass-kissing... :P

I don't know if you've done this yet, but have you thought about removing the open-able(?) doors? It seems to me that the area between the allied spawn through the underside of the building to the axis cannon seems a little... not DOD:S. The problem for me is that none of the "official" DOD:S maps have doors. They have just always bothered me for that reason. :(

Cs

Yea...that was a lazy compromise at the time because I was...lazy. It's been fixed. It's now a simple three-arch passageway that's been bricked off. I might spruce it up a bit to give it the "Valve" look but might not...it serves the purpose of being simple and easy on fps and semi-realistic so I'll see how playtesting goes and adjust as necessary .

I share the opinion that what made Anvil and Falaise so fun was that you could pretty much get anywhere from anywhere, but I also enjoy a more predictable, defensible flag areas.

I'll miss the area behind the church too, but mostly because I liked reading the headstones. ;)

I look forward to trying out anvil's newest iteration. Your work is always excellent.

As an aside, will you be revisiting the skybox fortress/castle? I think it looks great, but I seem to remember when anvil was released that you weren't entirely satisfied with it, although I might be mistaken.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
The thing to understand is that rat-maze maps really only appeal to a small select group of folks...usually custom mappers BTW.

:D Truly.

By the way, you should clip off the door in picture 1. You can get on top of it.

Lookin good man, the original is a fun map, glad to see that you made the architecture a but cleaner

When you done with this you simply MUST do a glider remake now that we have objective code ;)

Originally posted by Someth|ngW|cked
When you done with this you simply MUST do a glider remake now that we have objective code ;)

I'd weep with joy if you could do that FD :D.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
.

A two week effort designed to get me mapping again at full throttle.




Does that mean a new map after this one? Possibly objective style?

I am interested in a lot of things in Source mapping. The new code opens possibilities, the way the classes are designed also allows you to think of ways to expolit each one via map design. So yea, I'm mapping again.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
The thing to understand is that rat-maze maps really only appeal to a small select group of folks... Actually what I have found is that they are hated by players who are god-like at shooting people but can't seem to check their corners. They like to have their targets set in front of them where they can see them so they can shoot them better, because they have the advantage then. They don't like unseen targets that can surprise them and kill them. When you go to the upper levels of play, yes I would have to say linear maps are grossly more popular. It's almost a gladiator-like thing: they would rather face their enemy and die than shoot them in the back. But on the ground with us regular folks I have found the split to be more like 40/60, not a small group of select folks. It's not that I hate linear maps - it's just that I get tired of the same old map over and over. Anyway, I think it is folly to suggest that re-designing a map will encourage less camping. Look at dod_flash. They don't come more streamlined than that. And yet STILL you get teams that won't budge. You know Wile speaks the truth ;)

Anyway like I said I understand the incentive to comform. The bottom line is you want your maps to be popular, and most of the server-owners eventually drop the non-linear maps like dod_pier. Truth be told I am looking forward to your release and will probably enjoy it immensly; I only speak out so much to reverse this thinking that those who like these maps are a "small select group". :)

Man, reading through this thread it seems like people think the Original Anvil is going away or something...

I don't BELIEVE that is the case here, correct me if I'm wrong Fuzzdad. I love playing the REAL Anvil - But, in the same breath, I can understand the changes that are being made.

I would just consider Anvil2 to be the same map... Just later in the war :)

Few buildings have been destroyed, couple new paths have opened up, others have been closed up and aren't needed anymore :) :) :)

Yea...crans got it right. Look...I map for me...all others second. I am greatly interested in getting anvil to a place where the combat is tighter and more controlled and gameflow has a better eb and flow to it. Nobody on the playtests has vociferously complained about the lack of campers or the loss of the upstairs area's. It still takes the same amount of time to run from spawn to spawn...you'll just run into more players now than you did before.

I hate to be the bearer of this...but it's been proven time and time again that the rat maze maps only appeal to a select group of players and I'm trying to map to a much broader front. The changes I'm making are also made with absolute knowledge of what they do to gameplay...every single change was made with respect to impact (cause and effect). It's not popularity I'm going for...it's a gamestyle I'm trying to get too and here's why: After 30 minutes on the old anvil I want to play something else. After 30 minutes on donner I want to play another 30 minutes. I'm trying to capture that feeling and I'm fairly convinced it's the chaotic nature of gameplay on the map....it tires me out. That might appeal to some others...but not to me.

I think you'll find gameplay on this version just as rewarding as previous versions. If not we'll always have Paris...ermm...Anvil one.

Linear maps are popular because Valve makes linear maps. Most dod players don't play custom maps, of which some are non-linear.

Shame really, but what can you do !

My new map is rather linear unfortunatly, but I want people to play my maps. I'm tired of all the whining about non-linearity. Sickening. People are afraid of new things.

/rant end

:)

Hey ultranew_b,

Please don't give up on your creativity. There are alot of us that like a good challenge in a map. We are constantly putting good new maps on our server and they aren't all linear. Some are very polished in appearance and some are from newer mappers that are trying to learn the tricks of the trade. Keep up the great work.

Sorry for the hijack FuzzDad, I just hope more people would give custom maps a try. Yea there's a learning curve when you play a new map, but that's what makes it fun. Not knowing where all the established hiding places are.

Yes, it's a game but it simulates war and you didn't go running down the middle of the street wielding your gun. You had to get position on someone, hold a chokepoint, sneak in, thru and around buildings. Don't be weary to make challenging maps. We're not all lemmings out here. Remember that old fast food commercial , "same place same thing", please don't fall into that mode.

JCC

I don't think what was initially being spoken of was a linear vs. non-linear argument. The main point, at least what I thought, it seems like FD was trying to make arguing focused vs. non-focused, because that is what lets us play a map like Anzio for hours on end... and I surely don't see it as a linear map.

I like the pics, good work.

Originally posted by nave
I don't think what was initially being spoken of was a linear vs. non-linear argument. The main point, at least what I thought, it seems like FD was trying to make arguing focused vs. non-focused, because that is what lets us play a map like Anzio for hours on end... and I surely don't see it as a linear map.

Yea...case in point very few of Valve's maps are really "linear". The only one that's uber linear is Flash. What Valve does is compress gameplay into area's but most maps have three or more ways to get into those area's and the maps fall into several categories:

1) Round-a-bouts and spoke-and-wheel maps with either a circular route with interlocking passageways and no single main path (Anzio) or a center area with spokes for caps (Avalanche, Colomar). Jagd kinda falls into both.
2) Large end-to-end maps with at least one main pathway and multiple side and interlocking routes (Donner, Argentan, Kalt). Kalt could also be considered a linear map of sorts. It's Flash-like but without the single choke point.
3) Linear w/limited side paths and a big honking choke point (Flash).

Both versions of dod_anvil fall into the large end-to-end maps category...all I've done is push it slightly towards the Kalt model rather than the Donner model. One interesting note on half of the official maps: On Donner, Flash, Argentan and Colomar you can find a place where you can stand and all traffic passing from one end to the other must pass within your vision.

Donner: Axis side of the tank in the street
Flash: The center cap (doh)
Argentan: Just to the allied side of the mid cap
Colomar: The bridge

Kalt: Can't see folks in the tunnels
Anzio: Too circular
Jagd: Like anzio
Avalanche: Allies can get to the apts w/o being seen from the center

It will be interesting to see FD, can't wait to see it.

I'd really like to see more large End-to-End maps. i.e. Caen, Cherbourg, etc. cause to me that was the heart of DoD... but I digress, back to Anvil. Keep up the good work FD.

Just a brief explanation to those who may not know what we all are talking about.

lin·e·ar
1. Of, relating to, or resembling a line; straight.
a. In, of, describing, described by, or related to a straight line.
b. Having only one dimension.

A linear map is one that forces you into a certain path, from which you cannot deviate except to go forwards or backwards for a considerable distance of the map. There is little lateral or multi-level movement provided for. Basically (and this is my reall beef with linear maps) they really cut down on any guesswork as what route the enemy will be coming from. Non-linear maps allow up to 360 deg of movement across the map. Yes some maps are more linear than others.

I would not classify anvil 2 in it's current form as linear. It allows some movement between the paths in the middle and does allow at least 3 or more separate approaches to every cap point. The final cap points at both ends have three approaches. It also allows movement between 2 of the final flag approaches. However, it does not allow movement on more that one plane (i.e. flat-level design)

I should be able to release a "release candidate" in the next several days. I have a pretty good version ready to go now w/a few minor clipping deals to work out. I'll give it a week as a release candidate and if there are no major structural or gameplay problems I'll do a clean up of all the nit-noid texture alignment errors and other bugs, release a final version, and get on w/my next project.

The official dod maps are geared toward the masses, the regular pick up and play players, thats what makes the game sell, dod maps were MUCH better before it went retail but thats the price of popularity, good thing we still have mappers like fuzzdad though to make some good stuff

For me, anvil is a little frustrating due to the fact that you can be attacked from so many angles and routes at any one time. I always find myself hanging back and playing defensively, anvil2 sounds like it will have a better 'flow' to it :)

Can't wait Fuzzdad!

looked good and I did not get that sound problem from the first anvil. I was a huge fan of Falaise and the orginal in 3.1 (names escapes me for some reason). I played Anvil2 for about 30 minutes and good not get into a good rifle zone, don't know if it is the map or if I was just having an off night.

Bocage was the original map name by Fat Tony I believe.That is still my favorite version with the 3 man cap in the middle.

I loved that version best, too, Nick. Anvil is good though and I'm looking forward to the sequel.

But more than Anvil II I want to see what FD is cooking up next.

Originally posted by Ol' Noodle Head


But more than Anvil II I want to see what FD is cooking up next.

Helz ya!