dod_caen wip german spawn so far

screens can be found here (http://www.mediahump.com/?gid=368)

You should try deforming the inner faces of the broken walls so they bump out a bit, and maybe use a different texture or make the texture larger for the long building in the back; the texture looks very akward when you can see it repeating like that. I'd love to see Caen in source.... along with the Einfield:(

well its still a wip so the texturers will get done last.

You need to sourcify this a LOT more, it looks like a 1.3 map.

I'd suggest you work on sections of your map instead of making one global blocky version. Since Caen is a known map, you don't have any planning to do in advance, thus making a global blocky version won't do you any good since you'll have to work on each part of the map individually afterwards.

Also, it's a good habit to try to get the textures aligned right in the beginning so if you want to change them, there will be less work to do.

The columns in that picture don't look very convincing and seem to be incredibly huge compared to the arch door. Is your map to scale? Because it seems to be oversized if I compare the models you used with the overall size of the buildings.

Originally posted by Dash

Since Caen is a known map, you don't have any planning to do in advance, thus making a global blocky version won't do you any good since you'll have to work on each part of the map individually afterwards.


I'd say that making a global version would still be beneficial for getting the proportions right. I'd imagine this is how the officials were made as well, although I am assuming.

But by all means I wouldn't post screenshots of the block version.:D

dude....seriously, you are my hero!!!!! :)

i could really care less if it looked exactly like the 1.3 version, as long as its got the same layout and stuff i'm happy. because yea sure it doesn't look all purty, it at least is a blast to play :)

keep it up man

Originally posted by Dash
You need to sourcify this a LOT more, it looks like a 1.3 map.

I'd suggest you work on sections of your map instead of making one global blocky version. Since Caen is a known map, you don't have any planning to do in advance, thus making a global blocky version won't do you any good since you'll have to work on each part of the map individually afterwards.

Also, it's a good habit to try to get the textures aligned right in the beginning so if you want to change them, there will be less work to do.

The columns in that picture don't look very convincing and seem to be incredibly huge compared to the arch door. Is your map to scale? Because it seems to be oversized if I compare the models you used with the overall size of the buildings.

I don't like this idea at all. This is what I did with my first map and I regret it.

I like what I see in the screenshots. Sourcification comes last. World geometry and a vague sense of what textures will be used come first. You argue that Caen is a known map, but we don't know exactly how it's going to operate on the Source engine (although I'm sure it's safe to assume it will be received well regardless). It's in my opinion though that gameplay/balance/and performance should all be taken into account before eye candy and that it's just easiest to approach these elements in that order of priority.

The screens don't look that impressive compared to what they can potentially be, but if you take it for what it is at this point in development it's looking good.

This doesn't look all that great to me visually and the layout looks a bit warped compared to the last caen

Besides after dod_gamein and another wmap i have in the works i plan to work n a caen_classic release

thank heaven's some one got on this
you rule

wait wait, did you get permission?

Permission by who? Helvan? He vanished and nobody has ever seen him again.. Waldo just took the liberty to recreate it.. So should he ask Waldo for permission? No he shouldn't, since Waldo "stole" the map to.. (but that's just because nobody has found Helvan ever since)

well i plan not to change mutch to the origenal map only a few things here and there and update it to source can probebly can use some help from a texture artist whit some texturers.

I meant for the name, is it going to be called dod_caen?

Are you sticking with the brittish models for allies? Any plan as to when you expect to be finished? Cant wait! Caen was my fav 1.3 map.

I think that anyone who remakes a map, and they're NOT the original author, they should rename the map.

dod_caen_remake
dod_caen_2006
dod_caen_tribute

Something like that. That would cut down on alot of confusion and potential disputes.

Its a good start, I miss the theme of 1.3 beta Caen and would love to see that played up. That was my favorite.

Eventually as they said it needs to be brought up to Source Status.

Originally posted by Bocasean
I think that anyone who remakes a map, and they're NOT the original author, they should rename the map.

dod_caen_remake
dod_caen_2006
dod_caen_tribute

Something like that. That would cut down on alot of confusion and potential disputes.

Or call it something completely different, so it doesn't look like the Americans are stealing probably the biggest British and Canadian land battle in Normandy.

That aside, its looking promising!

well i am working as fast as i can on it about 4 to 6 hours a day but there is allot to do so i cant realy say when it will be done but i hope to finish it whit in a month or two then i am gonne work on a other remake probebly gonne rename the rebuild maps to dod_........_source_build

some work in progress screens.

and another.

Looking good Commando, take your time. We can wait. I think dod_caen_source would work great. Your off to a good start. ;)

think there whas a complaint about this building what about now?

good or bad?

How about the artillery hits and dynamiting the walls will yopu be able to work that in? And ofcourse the all important British skins.

well i dont know about the dynamite.
but i can add a tank to it like it whas origenaly but i dont think that will improve the game play.

dynamite can be done with the pending update.

yea whas hoping for that

the best way I have seen classic maps renamed for source is like this dods_caen dods_chemille etc.


Bostton1

you shouldnt use dods_
many people have dod_ on the filter to avoid fy,aim and other weird maps.

the map is looking good man... maybe valve will buy it off of you and include it in an official update... either way... i can't wait to play it!

Originally posted by LatencySick
the map is looking good man... maybe valve will buy it off of you and include it in an official update... either way... i can't wait to play it!
Uhhh, how can Valve buy something they already own? :rolleyes:

well valve can have it from me when im done i dont wanne have some thing for it it is a hobby not a job i do it becose i lkike too not to urn money.

seeing caen whas one of the top played maps in dod it is weard that they dident put it into source so im doing it.

You are my hero FC!

Ugh.

I'd get banned if I said what I wanted to say. Yes you can go on about getting gameplay right before Sourcification takes place, but the map has to at least look like 1.3 status before then, this does not. It looks like something from before 1.3 beta!

Work on a building at a time, rather than a whole area. The use of big fat single brushes like this should be outlawed.

Fuyro on one of his recent maps playtested it before he "sourced" it up and even then it looked releaseable.

Originally posted by Ginger Lord
Ugh.

I'd get banned if I said what I wanted to say. Yes you can go on about getting gameplay right before Sourcification takes place, but the map has to at least look like 1.3 status before then, this does not. It looks like something from before 1.3 beta!

Work on a building at a time, rather than a whole area. The use of big fat single brushes like this should be outlawed.

Fuyro on one of his recent maps playtested it before he "sourced" it up and even then it looked releaseable.

²

I hate it when people use the gameplay-issue to cover up the lack of graphics.. Hello, this is 2006, this is the source engine.. Add some frigging detail..

I'll even say more, throw away the overall look of caen and make it actually look like a town instead of the blocks used in the original (due to the HL1 engine limitations).. Keep the maplayout, maybe keep the same mainpoints (bank, allied sniper spot) but redesign it to fit source/ww2.. Kinda like they did with Kalt, but more extreme :) )

Well what a load of crap from you guys. If you are so unhappy with FC´s attempt why dont you ake a perfect version? Make it snappy too please. Instead of bashing the guy maybe some friendly advice and even asistance would be the way to a perfect source caen map.

Originally posted by Kevorken
Well what a load of crap from you guys. If you are so unhappy with FC´s attempt why dont you ake a perfect version? Make it snappy too please. Instead of bashing the guy maybe some friendly advice and even asistance would be the way to a perfect source caen map.

God, that's another load of bull to -_- "omg you HAVE to like something, unless you can make something better yourself"..

And ehm, we are giving him advice.. The advice is to upgrade the whole map to source standards.. Get rid of the blocky HL1 layout, go with the power of the source engine..

Agreed, I was thinking about remaking this map myself.

Some of your screenshots are looking OK, the effort you have put in shows, but the layout isn't exactly like Caen.

The key features of Caen, such as the objects to hide behind (the ruined area in the plaza which isn't there in your remake) and the sizing of the sniper windows were the key ingredients that made Caen how it was. If you are going to remake a map, keep these things in unless its a benefit to gameplay, which in this case, it isn't.

If you don't understand what I mean, I can always draw it up in an image for you.

Stick at it, keep up the good work. This was my favorite dod map of all time, I'd like to see a remake thats good :)

Originally posted by Ginger Lord
Ugh.

I'd get banned if I said what I wanted to say. Yes you can go on about getting gameplay right before Sourcification takes place, but the map has to at least look like 1.3 status before then, this does not. It looks like something from before 1.3 beta!

Work on a building at a time, rather than a whole area. The use of big fat single brushes like this should be outlawed.

Fuyro on one of his recent maps playtested it before he "sourced" it up and even then it looked releaseable.

I cannot believe I'm reading this. Nowhere did he say "I'm thinking of releasing it like exactly like this." I'm pretty sure I see the letters W-I-P in the topic title... does that mean anything to anyone? Furyo might have ACTUALLY BEEN DONE WITH LAYOUT when he released his map.

I'll admit, FC took a risk releasing these kinds of shots for a WIP... it's best, in my opinion, to release screens near the end of the development cycle and not during it, because now everyone probably thinks he's going to release it like that (and I doubt that's the case here). Ok, an example... right now I'm working on a map that isn't anything more than a bunch or orange boxes. Why? Because I want my map to actually have a good layout and perform well (and I want to know it performs well before I spend hours upon hours of meticulous detail work only to find that my layout is screwing me over). The next thing I see myself doing is texturing them to get an idea of what I want it to look like, and then I'm going to go through and construct each building, one by one, in full detail.

I don't like that "one building at a time" philosophy. No, "big fat single brushes" are not acceptable when releasing a map, but if you're simply using them to get an idea of scale and layout, what's so wrong with that? It doesn't take that much time to make a "dummy" map as it's mostly just a bunch of blocks, and when you're satisfied you start making your detailed stuff. I did the "one building at a time" method with my last map, dod_harvest, and I'm still kicking myself for it. There are framerate problems that I simply can't fix without a drastic layout change at this point.

When looking at these screenshots, it looks as though he's got the rough geometry down and a vague idea of textures and what will come next is what I explained: he'll probably sit down and flesh out each and every building.

Hell, maybe I'm just reading into it too much and you're all right, but I'd like to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

im not gonne coment on that stuff only gonne state again W.I.P if you dont like it do it your self.

Oh well.. This might help to get the looks right: http://www.geocities.com/dieppe_berlin/1Canada/1-Battle/france/caen.htm

Also note that Caen was bombed to <3<3<3<3 before any troops entered.. Maybe use that to give some atmosphere to the map..

thx

and a other new screen

If you want to release a map just for gameplay testing, just texture it in orange/grey grid textures, then nobody will complain about how it looks as it will obviously be WIP.

Nine times out of ten, people that show a WIP like this with blocky buildings release a beta of it, maybe 2, then never touch it again when they get to the "making it sourcified" stage.

Edit: I would remake it if I mapped for DoD:S anymore, but I don't. It may however pop up in another mod.

Originally posted by Final_Commando
dod_caen wip

less flat ground and more displacements plus texture blending :D

decompile any of the stock source maps (or anvil) to see how well done it is. (plenty of guides on it as well...doing it so its great is a dif story tho..)

Originally posted by ok comp

I don't like that "one building at a time" philosophy. No, "big fat single brushes" are not acceptable when releasing a map, but if you're simply using them to get an idea of scale and layout, what's so wrong with that? It doesn't take that much time to make a "dummy" map as it's mostly just a bunch of blocks, and when you're satisfied you start making your detailed stuff. I did the "one building at a time" method with my last map, dod_harvest, and I'm still kicking myself for it. There are framerate problems that I simply can't fix without a drastic layout change at this point.

When looking at these screenshots, it looks as though he's got the rough geometry down and a vague idea of textures and what will come next is what I explained: he'll probably sit down and flesh out each and every building.

Hell, maybe I'm just reading into it too much and you're all right, but I'd like to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

It is very evident that you did the "one building at a time" thing with harvest (it looks <3<3<3<3ing sick by the way), but I'm very looking forward to a map of yours with improved gameplay and your visual work. I'll be anxiously waiting.

I hope this wip caen steps up visually in the future, but due to the amount of screenshots being posted already, I'm not going to expect it.

Lets wait to critizes when he releases. Lets just give him pointers to improve it before it gets released how about that?

I whole heartedly agree that maps need that hmph visually but if the game play sucks it's all for nothing.

Loving the new pics man... I cannot wait to play you're map... keep up the good work.

Any idea how close you are to a release? and if u want anyone to help you test it... drop me a PM, i'll gladly help.

Keep on working. My advice is just that. I would also tell you that you're going about this map the wrong way, but I did the same thing with Dijon so I'm not the best person to tell you that (the wrong way btw is to start so big, with such a big map).

I'm only saying that cause it looks like it's your first map ever (just like Dijon was for me). If it's not the case, please disregard my comments.

Btw, no matter how "ok", "alright" or "neat" you think your map looks like when you get to release status, you'll think it looks like crap a month later. I know I do about dijon (except for the church, though it has some major flaws too).

The key here is my first sentence. Keep on working.

It is still beyond me that Valve did not make a source version of Caen. In my mind one of the top three DoD maps around. I miss it soo much I might just play DoD again instead of DoD source

You can have a clean cut, no barriers map and still have it look nice. I'm tired of seeing crappy remakes, how about one that looks nice for once?

And for God's sake stop saying crap like "classic gameplay." DoD 1.3 still exists and I can play it any time I want. Make it for Source.

As for the name, just call it dod_caen2.

Looking forward to this map more than anything... just please don't rush it's release. The screenshots are looking good as a WIP, but nothing close to release worthy.

You've done a great thing by taking on this challenge.

I just want to play caen... if it looks the same as 1.3b in source so be it... i bet the gameplay will still be top notch... i'm sure it'll look better than 1.3b, but it doesnt really matter to me... i want caen for it's ingenious design more than i want graphics

Originally posted by LatencySick
I just want to play caen... if it looks the same as 1.3b in source so be it... i bet the gameplay will still be top notch... i'm sure it'll look better than 1.3b, but it doesnt really matter to me... i want caen for it's ingenious design more than i want graphics

I'm sorry but I have to say that if you're looking for a 1.3 versoin of caen... go play 1.3.

In DoD: Source, we should have a Source worthy version of Caen.


Keep up the good work on the map, but I think you should concentrate more on making the map properly than posting screenies of it right now.

Originally posted by Hendy
Lets wait to critizes when he releases. Lets just give him pointers to improve it before it gets released how about that?

I whole heartedly agree that maps need that hmph visually but if the game play sucks it's all for nothing.

That is all I see happening as well...I mean, not only was someone telling him the proven best way to make a map...but it was Ginger...he is not some 'n00b' by any means. He is just reiterating something that has been preached to new mappers forever by ALL successful mappers. Work in sections. A map is not some thing that takes a month to finish. A map takes many months before there is even a real beta test.

They are not telling him to completely 'sourcify' the map, but there is still a level of 'sourcification' that is now done early in the map, geometry. No longer is anything a box with holes, now a house is a house and a church is a church. You have to build them all individually otherwise you just end up biting more than you can chew, then comes confusion, frustration, and eventually you give up.

Just take it from Ginger Lord and run with it. That is great advice, I recommend that you halt you current progress before you get too far and go back and fix it. If all you wanted to do was look for game play you do the minimum necessary and use the Dev orange and gray textures and do not worry about the HDR, use placeholder geometry and run it. But once the actual geometry is to start being built, then you do it slow and small. By doing it the way you did you just killed the game play argument.

Just my 2cents....

Originally posted by Tonedef
...and eventually you give up.
preach it brotha'

Originally posted by LatencySick
I just want to play caen... if it looks the same as 1.3b in source so be it... i bet the gameplay will still be top notch... i'm sure it'll look better than 1.3b, but it doesnt really matter to me... i want caen for it's ingenious design more than i want graphics
NO CAEN FOR YOU.

not all mappers use the same creative procedures....

To each his own !!

:)

Originally posted by Apollo
NO CAEN FOR YOU.

huh?

updated german spawn so far.
more screens (http://www.mediahump.com/?gid=368)

man... that is looking so good... i cannot wait to play this! good work finalcommando!!! you are my hero

It still feels too blocky for my own liking, the bridge's architecture is very basic, less than what source is capable, and the wall surrounding the level is as basic and too clean-cut to seem realistic...

i can't believe how judgmental people are of this WIP, it looks great man... keep up the good work.

Originally posted by LatencySick
i can't believe how judgmental people are of this WIP, it looks great man... keep up the good work.

People are judgemental because porting caen to source is not a light project, especially with all the solid dedication players had to it in 1.3, and seeing how someone doesn't necessarily seem to be up to par while mapping such an important map of the DoD community on the Source engine may upset some people. Personally, that's how I see it.

well becose it is a map that allot of peopel like i post the wip screens to see what they think needs to be updated and so on but most is build basic to be detaild later on.

You'll get unnecessary criticism by posting obviously not detailed stuff... because if theres not detail what is there to judge from a screenshot? Proportions need to be played.

Just finish the building layouts and ask for a playtest at http://www.dod-federation.com

If you're posting nice looking caen screenshots, you WOULD be getting positive feedback. Also what Dash said.

People post WIPs in these boards expecting comunity critique, thats the point . . .

If you post a map in such an early state then the criticism will obviously be negative

Originally posted by Final_Commando
well becose it is a map that allot of peopel like i post the wip screens to see what they think needs to be updated and so on but most is build basic to be detaild later on. Update the ENTIRE map. That's what we're trying to say.

you guys are so harsh man! the map is looking good. real good... just like caen should actually.... maybe the detail isn't there yet... <3<3<3<3 off and give him time... i for one am glad that hes showing us every step he takes along the way.

You can't just do a 'basic' version that practically any mapper could do and expect to have chants of praise for your map.

Unfortunately I think he CAN expect it... and he did. Howbout everyone raise their standards?

I agree that it doesn't deserve praise though, because it obviously isn't a praiseworthy step that has been taken. Of course that doesn't mean the map won't look good when he's done, but our goal as critics isn't to predict the future.

try not to make it look like a field/country side map. stick with the destroyed city of stone and brick
search for ww2 caen reference photos on google

Man... he deserves credit.... Since the beginning of DOD:S people have been begging for a source version of Caen... nobody stepped up to the plate until finalcommando. He seems to be doing a half decent job, wayyyyyy better than any other caen attempt.

Well the new screens make it a lot nicer, just apply that detail to the rest of the map and you'll be set.

Originally posted by LatencySick
Man... he deserves credit.... Since the beginning of DOD:S people have been begging for a source version of Caen... nobody stepped up to the plate until finalcommando. He seems to be doing a half decent job, wayyyyyy better than any other caen attempt.

You just said it yourself.. "A source version of Caen".. And that's what people are asking/demanding here.. A -source- version of Caen..

Originally posted by Bolteh
You just said it yourself.. "A source version of Caen".. And that's what people are asking/demanding here.. A -source- version of Caen..

it's running in source... not the hl1 engine.... this is a source version of caen like... whether u admit it or not... the physics will be there... the new player models and weapon physics..... we will be playing caen in source... this is a source version of caen... whether it meets the quality of maps with a budget or not.... this is a version of caen running in source.

Originally posted by LatencySick
it's running in source... not the hl1 engine.... this is a source version of caen like... whether u admit it or not... the physics will be there... the new player models and weapon physics..... we will be playing caen in source... this is a source version of caen... whether it meets the quality of maps with a budget or not.... this is a version of caen running in source.

You're just ridiculous here and that's not even and argument proving any point.

This thread failed.

Note to Final_Commando: Next time you have something to show from your map, make a new thread and we'll make sure it's flame free.

pm me if you have something to ask.

Thank you.