Without much mention of them here [on dod.net]...............


dod_sherman_b7: REMOVED BY OZZ



dod_alps: http://www.landofozz.net/pafiledb/pafiledb.php?action=download&id=309


dod_sabre: http://www.landofozz.net/pafiledb/pafiledb.php?action=download&id=310


dod_railroad3b3: http://www.landofozz.net/pafiledb/pafiledb.php?action=download&id=308



Also, I'm looking for creator info for alps, sabre and rr3b3 if anyone knows anything it's much appreciated.



--Ozz

alps as been around since last year and there is two version of it. the othe one being a cut down version of the same map. No idea who the mapper is.

Do you know the name of tha mapper of sherman?

Squinty @ www.82ndrangers.net made sherman.


Awesome job, squinty, hopefully you will optimize for fps for the final. I like the minor changes you made and the map is as fun as ever!!

Check with Rosie....she might know who made RR3. I believe it was made for the Day of Destruction mod initially.

The cutdown version of dod_alps is dod_deathbridge.

Railroad3b3
Authors: Dean and Talon @ #despise

They made it as a synthesis of the DOD 1.3 maps Railroad and railroad2_b2 for Source

btw:
alps: is all purple checks from the above link
sabre: one missing wall = purple textures
Sherman_b7: is almost a direct port from 1.3 except for some interesting additions of of route openings ally side

wait, are these for 1.3 or source?

They are for Source.

Originally posted by RosietheRiveter btw:
alps: is all purple checks from the above link

I was able to fix the water texture missing by decompiling the map, checking waht texture was missing, could not find it anywhere so I made a vmt file for it. If you want to package it get my package it's in it with a res file. have not touch the bsp size.

get the missing file here:
http://www.dod-federation.com/file.php?id=626

Originally posted by RosietheRiveter
sabre: one missing wall = purple textures

Actually it's two texture missing. I found one in CS still looking for the other. Map is worth finding the textures. The texture still missing is : decals/fd_poster4

If anyone has it please send it to me so I can make a full package.

Thank you for the names missing

Sherman looks God awful and I know I worked on that version of railroad3, wierd I get no credit for it. Not surprising at all though really.

?? what do you mean 'got no credit'?? Where are the credits??

Didn't travis originally do dod_sherman?

dod_sherman2_b5.txt
*-*-*-*dod_sherman2_b5*-*-*-*

by Travis a.k.a RaNd0M
Travis@EXPESports.com
http://www.EXPESports.com
para_lecave,dod_lecave2,dod_sherman,dod_harbor

*-*-*-*dod_sherman2_b5*-*-*-*

Objectives:
Allies - Capture the 5 control points and drive the axis out of town
Axis - Capture the 5 control points and drive the allies out of town

Scoring:
Allied & Axis 1st flags 1 point every 15 seconds
Allied & Axis 2nd flags 2 points every 15 seconds
3rd flag (Main Street) 3 points every 15 seconds

*-*-*-*dod_sherman2_b5*-*-*-*

Thanks To.....
Darking,Demalex,derO,Pyrosleek,wabz,Snowman
subz,maxlamer,[Stooge]Moe, sarge, thanks to Swordzkof
for all the extra time and effort he spent helping me.
thanks to all the people who
took part in my 3am map tests :/.
thanks to the texture artists for the
awesome textures and the modelers :).
Thanks to my cod clan (http://teamanomaly.net) for putting
up with me talk about mapping all the time, much <3 guys.
Special thanks to everyone who helped me
ou on the Official Day Of Defeat forums - a great resource for
mappers and dod'ers in general (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/)

Please notify me of any bugs you find!

-enjoy

Sherman looks God awful
Fun map with 99fps
Looks aren't everything ;)
Note:
Well so much for 99 fps. :(
With 20 players that dips to 30-40 fps

Hi All,

Just want to let you know Travis is remaking Sherman. I'm not sure how is he going to react on the topic.

Regards, Kurt

WRT railroad3b3
The download file did not contain a readme.txt or mapname.txt file, the usual place to find a credit.
The dean and talon credit was posted over in the Steam DODS Map Forums (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showtread.php?s=&threadid=422948[/url)

Travis is only listed as working on para_carentan and a "town map" in the Source Project (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53893) post

There has got to be a more efficient way for the original 1.3 mappers to let the source mappers know what their future plans are.
Intellectual property aside, server operators are caught in the middle.
Its would be extremely difficult and time consuming to track down every map's author and confirm that the nod was given for a port or remake.

Sabre is my creation. It was my first map that was put on our server (-=JAG=-). Did not know it was being played on other servers. Glad it got some notice. I am working on another and have not had a chance to revisit it. I may try and finish it this weekend now that it is out there. Will let you all know when it is reworked.

By the way, I do not post at all in this forum. Although I am on it every day. A lot of great information! Keep it up. I will release others in the next few weeks. I will probably release under my DOD name...BiGPoPPa. Look forward to any and all feedback.

Mojo68, glad you posted here. When I package map I like to put the mapper name on it :)

By the way I found all decals missing in dod_sabre, tanks to bocasean ;)

The map dod_sabre has now been repackage with a res file and the missing textures that were decals.

If you made a map package on your site please get this one to add the missing textures to your package.
http://www.dod-federation.com/file.php?id=624

Also Maybe before you release your other map publically, we just created a new community site for DOD Source aimed at mapper and we organise private test for map so they don't leak to the public. During those test, we make sure no texture is missing, that no exploit in the map exist. We do recomandation on gameplay, element placement, texture alignement and more. Basically we try to help the mapper make better release by testing the map inside out and how it play.

You seem to have a lot of talent and we would be please if you would let us test the map before you make a public release.

You can read more on our map testing program in our forum at :

http://www.dod-federation.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18

keep up the good work!

My file is now updated as well.


Thanks BiGPoPPa!

Alps is actually an extended version of deathbridge,I used both as an exercise to test huge maps in source.I actually have a third version that has over 12 flags(do to non working "group" settings)that is twice the size of alps.......


for those who want the full zip its here, look carefully in the zip and you will find the bz2 for the bsp also...

http://www.acemcgirk.com/dod_alps.rar

Wow, thanks a bunch, Ace. I am fixing my file as I type.

Originally posted by RosietheRiveter
Fun map with 99fps
Looks aren't everything ;)
Note:
Well so much for 99 fps. :(
With 20 players that dips to 30-40 fps
It seems that every time someone says something about someone putting an inch over zero effort to make a map look good, this comment arises. I'm well aware a horrid looking map can play well and that I can get x amount of FPS on it. The fact of the matter is, it still looks like trash.

well, either way, it's got the highest number of downloads in my download section and it did it in 3 days......

Point is that people just want this map for it's playability regardless of fps (because it does get low fps with a lot of people), but it's even more fun than the original sherman2.


I'm not knocking great graphics at all, Apollo, I just want to see great graphics with great gameplay and great fps. I'll settle for the last two, at least it will provide a fun game.


I would like to know what work you did exactly on RR3b3, since I [respectfully] added your name to the credits on my site.

--Ozz

I'm not knocking great graphics at all, Apollo, I just want to see great graphics with great gameplay and great fps. I'll settle for the last two, at least it will provide a fun game.

I agree totally
Variety and playablility keeps the players on the servers.
I love the great looks of the stock maps and customs like anvil, churchyard, dijon, paysage, sora, salerno to name a few.
Regardless, sometimes its just nice to play on a map and get stable high fps.
I guess I'm not too quick to disparage any mapper's efforts. They all produce a better product than I could. ;)

I agree with rosie. To say a map is trash when it play well and you get high FPS is really not realistic. It may not look good, Some will not want to play it because it does not look good, but many will not mind. I rather see mapper making map with a good layout and good FPS that does not look that good then a map tha look good but everyone complain on FPS. Sora is a map that as a good layout look good but you need to limit the number of player on it because of no otimization really was done on it. The mapper just gave on optimizing this map. So ppl keep complaing about lag on the map when we play 18 or 20 men on it.

Now if the layout is great, the map look great and FPS are great, then it's fantastic.

This is why some of us created dod-federation. we offer map test, web space for mapper and even help out optimizing map when the mapper ask for help and when we think it's worth it. KominAaa optimised boudha_b2. I work on optimising dod_battlebridge that should come out in a few weeks.

So we are trying our best the help out mapper, not discourage them from mapping. And anyone that did some mapping know how hard it is and how much time it's takes. So try to maybe use other term then trash. Just not fit for all the work mapper try to do for free and for all to enjoy more maps.

Originally posted by theozzmancometh
well, either way, it's got the highest number of downloads in my download section and it did it in 3 days......

I would like to know what work you did exactly on RR3b3, since I [respectfully] added your name to the credits on my site.
Assuming Travis did this work, it's extremely surprising to see him release a map like this that has major problems in walk-ability and no skybox. Sherman2 is a good map, it's just that this port doesn't seem to do the map much justice.

As for Railroad3, here's what I did:

The tan/brick building in the 2nd one, inside and out, the off-limits buildings in the first, and that building, inside and out in the third. Also worked a lot on other parts of the map, some things which were changed back for one reason or another somehow, but the things in these 3 screenshots are my work for sure.

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4765/dodrailroad3b2d00151jd.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/7950/dodrailroad3b2d00176tx.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/1603/dodrailroad3b2d00207zg.jpg

Originally posted by CoolHand
So we are trying our best the help out mapper, not discourage them from mapping. And anyone that did some mapping know how hard it is and how much time it's takes. So try to maybe use other term then trash. Just not fit for all the work mapper try to do for free and for all to enjoy more maps.
Sorry, but someone should know how good or bad their work is. If someone makes a map and I think it looks great, I don't water down my praise so they'll work on it some more, I tell them it looks great and fantastic with a few flaws that anyone in the world could miss. The same goes for poor maps, and I know perfectly well how long it takes to make a map and the effort put into it.

Maps like this one and kalt_remake are poor adaptations of good maps. They shouldn't be praised for half-assing a map, they should be criticized and know exactly what they did so that the next time they decide to take on a difficult project like mapping, they know they have to put 100% effort into it and learn further stylistics like skyboxes, displacements, and the proper way to do textures.

Credit for the 2 buildings that apollo did will be in the final release

I am still working on railroad and here is a little taster lol

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/d_e_a_n_o/rail.jpg

definitly a raise in the quality of the map. First version got comment like it does not look sourcified. Now it's really looking to be on the right track. :)

indeed. Looks very nice, DeanO

Definately looks better.

Originally posted by theozzmancometh
Squinty @ www.82ndrangers.net made sherman.


Awesome job, squinty, hopefully you will optimize for fps for the final. I like the minor changes you made and the map is as fun as ever!!

There will be an optimized version as with testing we found that when you get a full 32 player server FPS does drop, still getting around 30/35 but it can be improved on, and thanks for the comments...

Hey Dean
That screenshot is beautiful

There is a tray of warm cookies in it for you if you put back the access to the hole in the wall ( in ally's hotel) to something like that in railroad3b2 ;)

The next release will be a major change compared to b3

Originally posted by CoolHand
. Sora is a map that as a good layout look good but you need to limit the number of player on it because of no otimization really was done on it. The mapper just gave on optimizing this map. So ppl keep complaing about lag on the map when we play 18 or 20 men on it.

It was optimized as much as could be with open areas. It was a gift to the public for free, why do people complain?

Try dod_pier, it runs great with 32, no lag.

:)

Your maps is great and I am sure there would be a way to optimise it more. I did take a look at it in hammer and the bottom of the map is all open so no matter how hard you have tried to optimise it with hint, it's can't work until you seal the bottom. That is why i say you gave up on it. You never try to get a final version out. Still this map remain amonst the most popular map out there. It would even be more popular with more optimisation.

you map have a unique layout, look great and is only missing a bit of FPS to have everything going for it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't lag on it and wish I would play it more often but since we usually play 20 men on our servers, we keep having our members with low end computer that complain and ask us to remove it. This is just my reality in my group.

This map is great and I am sure it's possible to optimise it better. This is where I disagree with you, it's optimisable. I remember reading that you did not want to give out on your roof access and the tower but most of the problem start on the botom that is not sealed. Maybe you could let me have a shot at optimising it ;)

dod_pier2 is our rotation and non of our low end computer members did complain on lag. Map is great and as a great ambiance.

Even you recommended to play 18 men or less, so i am not inventing anything, only saying what is true. Still one of the best map out there.

To whoever made that sherman_b7, Travis is extremely pissed off, and he has a right to be. He is working on a source version already, and the quality of what was released is marginal at best, it's laggy, poorly optimized and takes away from the creation of a pretty decent map. This is what he had to say:

Again today I have been let down by the lack of respect for original mappers
like myself, I woke this morning to find an email from propaganda alerting
me to the fact that yet again someone has so cheaply "ported" one of my maps
to dod:source without my permission. This especially sickens me as sherman
is my most popular map and I have been working over the last couple of
months on a new version for dod:s. To the person that ported sherman I would
like to say you make me sick, this cheap immitation has given me a bad name,
I hope that you might someday get an original though of your own. To the dod
forum admins I ask that you please remove all posts relating to this
immitation, its not enough that the map was ripped off but to see it allowed
on the dod forums is even more sickening than the map itself, we have all
had the discussions reguarding intellectual property laws so please stop
supporting this blatant violation.

I did not mean disrespect to Travis, I simply was sharing maps I had come across in my travels.


At this point, I will remove the link and the download, but be advised Travis, we would all probably prefer your original, authorized map still.


If it means anything to you, it has received quite a reception, nonetheless. People still enjoy your map's design whether it be choppy and somewhat graphically lacking - it was still beta - but it was still your map. People love it. It was one of my favorite maps in 1.3 along with a lot of other people, I'm sure.



--Ozz

This is an example of miscommunication, not plagirism, imho.
I can understand why an established mapper would be upset over someone else porting his creation. No contest.
Perhaps a more efficient system of announcing intent of the original mapper to port to Source is needed.
There is a dearth of source maps. People who are true fans of 1.3 maps are attempting to port them to Source, not out of disrespect but out of admiration for the original efforts.
Perhaps a few moments of the old school mapper's time to announce even an intent to Sourcify their maps would be helpful.
It would give the players something to look forward to and the active mappers the signal that they should keep hands off.

IMHO I think anything thats taken is taken. If someone wants to do something that mimics the original call it something else. dod_whatever "layout similar to sherman". If it's any good it will fly on it's own. I mean if someone called a map sherman, and it looked nothing liek sherman, then fine, maybe the guy didn't know.

@ozzman I don't think Travis frustration was directed at you, you did nothing wrong.

If someone wants to do something that mimics the original call it something else. dod_whatever "layout similar to sherman".

Would that be an acceptable alternative to mappers?
What of a credit to the original mapper, in a packaged readme and/or on the Team Select Menu - Map Objective Screen,
in the manner of FuzzDad (always the gentleman) crediting authors on Anvil. (http://www.sunlitgames.net/images/credits.jpg)?

It would be better if decisions on the legitimacy of a map could be made before the map is distributed. Listings in the DOD Map forums are a good indication but not always verified. The same in the Steam DODS Map forums. If server operators are expected to scour the internet to perform a "title search" every time a new map pops up, interest in running custom maps is going to decline.

Perhaps a compilation of formalized mapping etiquette and information in a single document would help balance the release of orphanned maps, with the creative rights of previous authors.
Such as:
- the conditions under which ethically a 1.3 or 3.1 map's layout could be built on or the map ported
- contact list of (active) old school mappers for the new guys to elicit permissions
OR
Maybe add the name of mapper to the existing Reserved Map Names (http://www.dayofdefeat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54955&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) list?
Central and easy location to access. A new mapper could use the DOD site's pm or email system on the spot.
- naming conventions for betas, release candidates and finals
- Custom map communities could post these conventions in an effort to spread the word.

What do you think ?

I think that any mapper should know that exiting map are not their map and thus should never even use the name unless they get the mapper permission. Now using a layout with a different name is different but still a mention of the original mapper would be nice. I also would make sure it just look different too, This way copyright would not be a problem. Take Salerno and many did not realise that the layout is almost similar as railroad. The final release did get away from it a bit more.

The problem with the name is that it is really a direct association with the previous map. Using the name, the mapper get the publicity and popularity a mapper work hard to get. That the mapper intend or not to redo it, a other mapper should never use that name. It's just a direct breach of copyright.

I know I will take down the map from our download section in DODF and 907th. I may consider putting it under a new name only.

I think that a bit like the kalt remake, many did like the map when it came out because the layout work great. But since the real Kalt is out you just don't see it played anymore. Sherman_b7 use the same layout with some new opening. The fan of that map where happy to see it but as mentioned the map is far from finish and I can understand how the mapper feel about it. Most player will think it's from the same mapper.

Using a name and a layout that was popular whitout the original mapper permission should never be. I would rather see mapper come with their own creation.

I think that each one that have download section should remove it and remove oit from rotation and autodownload.

I also would like to see those who hunt for map to find a mapper original thread before hosting them. This way maybe we would stop getting map that are not meant to be.

Like on DODF we do many test. We try to put password or keep the download link not public and we hope they won't leak like some did with some anvil test. Since those leek, it was mentioned here and it did not happen since. SO if we communicate more between each other and we are not to fast putting maps in download section, then we can avoid these type of error.

Good example is this thread and how mapper finally showed up when the post was made.

In the end, I don't think we should be so hungry for new maps since they come out on regular basis. I know a few will come out of test session we had that the community will enjoy. More are on the work table and will see the day when the mapper feel it's ready.

Originally posted by RosietheRiveter

Maybe add the name of mapper to the existing Reserved Map Names (http://www.dayofdefeat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54955&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) list?
Central and easy location to access. A new mapper could use the DOD site's pm or email system on the spot.

What do you think ? [/B]

I think the post we have here have been very usefull and would still be usefull. But I think we need more info and what we could do is use a database to store all the info. If streamlinedata want to still take care of it I see no problem. The idea would be to have the name, date reserved, date released and all this could be done with search so you can find all entry from a mapper. all recent entry etc..

I will get someting going on DODF and I will PM streamlinedata to see how we could have this done. I don't want to override his effort that has been very usefull. I think the thead should continue but only to take entry. Then Streamlinedata could validate the picture en enter them in the database. Would make sorting map name per dates, name, mappers way easier and could still use this thread here has the place to register a name.

I will see what streamlinedata think of it.