dod_stammlager is my current "big map" project. This isn't anything like dod_pillbox or dod_pillbox2, it's a full map based on true historic architecture.

dod_stammlager, for those who don't know, carries the name of the first Auschwitz camp (Stammlager, Auschwitz I). Stammlager was the forced labor camp where few executions were made. dod_stammlager will immerse the player into the camp and even let him do a tour of the camp.

Allies have arrived at the camp's entrance and Axis are mobilizing in their Kommandatur, awaiting backup. Allies need to take posession of the camp and the Axis Kommandatur to prevent them from calling more backup and the Axis have to force out the Allies of the camp and close the Gates.

Here are some screenshots of the current stage of development of the map:
Newest Screenshots:
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm13.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm14.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm15.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm16.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm17.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm18.jpg



Gate Comparison:
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm12.jpg

Old Screenshots:
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm11.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm10.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm9.jpg

Older screenshots:
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm5.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm6.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm7.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm8.jpg
Pre-winter theme screenshots:
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm1.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm2.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm3.jpg
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm4.jpg

It's a joke ? If it is, it's not funny ! If it's not, it's a shame!

You'd better watch this http://www.auschwitz.be/

And this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp


Dod is a video game, you play for fun not to do a "tour of the" camp and "close the gates" in Auschwitz !!

I have to agree with Fr3t, maybe you are too young to undertand what this all mean. It's just not something meant for a video game. I know I will not host nor play this map. I sure hope you will understand that those camp are something we wish will never be seen again.

To turn this into a game make no sense to me and I am sue many other will see it as offending. If I were you I would burry this project.

Auschwitz was a attemp to eliminate a race, think about it for a minute. That his not meant to be a game.

Dash
dont take this the wrong way, but
i think what the others here have to say is very relavent.

i dont want to discoruge your work but i think you might want to change some stuff on this map, including the name.

hmm to be honest it didn't occur to me at first the offense this could cause. maybe these guys are right, this could be a little too risky and well, there's nothing about this map that will make better gameplay than any other less offensive map! :).

But when i first viewed the pics i must say, i liked the sky you're using, the roads and the grass :).

May i ask, what sky and grass (with sprites) textures are those?

Bad luck about the lack of support for the map :( but good luck for your next map ;).

I don't think I am too young nor that I am not 'educated' enough to understand what happened in these places.

I personally am 100% Polish and compared to anyone here, I've been raised and taught about these things since I'm a little kid, and am totally aware of what happened, hence my passion for WW2. My family has a whole heritage of guns, mortar shells, nurse guns, rifles, cane rifles, history books, journals, medals of honor, courage, and many family members that even participated in the Warsaw resistance and many family friends that have been victims of the camps that I personally met and talked to.

I don't see why we're making all these other maps if one of the main factors of WW2 was to cease the actions that were done in such places? I find my map to be totally eligible, but if some of you think it's too excessive to actually go to the root of WW2, then feel free to not play this map when it's released, but don't try to impeach the work i'm doing, thanks.

(As for those wondering, there won't be any crematoriums or other people than the axis and allies team, it's Stammlager, not Birkenau)

Edit: If you guys enjoyed stalag13, then I don't see why you're against this one...

Not cool dude, not cool at all . . .

Map looks good. Ignore what these people say and just keep making it. If they don't want to play it they don't have to.

The idea might be insensitive and inappropriate, but I haven't seen anything in his work that is. Probably could do with a name change, but for a prison map it's looking good.

hold on guys, give the guy a break for a min and think about it.

he wants to make a map of auschwitz, where anywhere between 1.1 - 4.1 million people died (depending on what source you read), and your slating him.
Yet you'll all happily run around re-enacting a world war that claimed the lives of a estimated 55 million soldiers and civilians?

Let's be clear. Dash is not "re-enacting Auschwitz". He's created a historically accurate prison camp map. Read his posts, his intentions are obviously good, even respectful.

However, don't underestimate the truly disturbing subset of this gaming community that is deeply anti-semitic or racist in general. They're a minority, of course.

Originally posted by Caldbeck
hold on guys, give the guy a break for a min and think about it.

he wants to make a map of auschwitz, where anywhere between 1.1 - 4.1 million people died (depending on what source you read), and your slating him.
Yet you'll all happily run around re-enacting a world war that claimed the lives of a estimated 55 million soldiers and civilians?

My thoughts exactly.......

i find it odd that the other prison camp map didn't get this kind of attention but now that dash takes a more known name suddenly you guys start to cry about it

keep on mapping and don't let the american soccer moms censor you because they can't handle the truth

Looks good!
Keep it going, I'd love to see the finished product.

Originally posted by RA7
My thoughts exactly.......

My thoughts exactly as well. And further more it isn't like Dash is glorifying what happened at these camps just as VALVe wasn't glorifying what the Nazis did to the allies on D-Day with their Charlie map. You guys are blowing this way out of proportion and shouldn't be so quick to judge what this person's intensions are. And I think that if you feel so stongly about it not being made then feel free to not either support it or play it when it is released. You have choices. And certainly telling someone that they might be too young to understand what went on is just degrading and condescending at best. To be ignorant of something is to make something like this? I think not. You can be the most educated person in the world about a subject like this and still make something like this with the understanding of what happened there, what it meant, and still be respectful to the place and events. Please try to not let your emotions get the best of you. Emotion will always cloud good judgement and reason, especially in a case like this where most people's first reaction is going to be "OMG, is this person sick or what?!"
That is all for now...

Chris

I'm going to make the map set in winter. I noticed there weren't many "quality" maps set in winter and the camp's atmosphere looks awesome in winter mode ;)
Screenshots will come shortly.

Originally posted by Dash
I'm going to make the map set in winter. I noticed there weren't many "quality" maps set in winter and the camp's atmosphere looks awesome in winter mode ;)
Screenshots will come shortly.

Great to hear that Dash, keep up the great work.

Chris

It is a good thing to see that people deliver their opinion.

Without changing mine, I must say that I showed myself a little too direct. I was, as you saw, shocked by your history in your first post. Not knowing what you thought, I had imagined the worst. It is a good thing you put the things at light. While respecting your work I am still not agree with the localization which you propose.


@ Inkit, if the others maps style POW did not cause the same debate it is undoubtedly because the major difference was that it did not propose to play in a place which historically is very charged in symbols.

peter you in here?

Well this is something I new would happen, I made stalag13 with all this in mind and there is a big HUGE !! difference between the two maps, I did a few weeks of research and made sure the map I was making would not offend anyone Stalag13 is a POW CAMP NOT A CONCENTRATION CAMP There is a huge difference.
I also modeled the map after Stalag3 but chose to name it stalag13 due to popularity in the name & Hogans Hero's Stalag Luft III was located 100 miles southeast of Berlin in what is now Poland. The POW camp was one of six operated by the Luftwaffe for downed British and American airmen. Compared to other prisoner of war camps throughout the Axis world, it was a model of civilized internment. The Geneva Convention of 1929 on the treatment of prisoners of war was complied with as much as possible, but it was still war, still prison, and still grim. With a madman on top, there was the ever-present threat that authority above the Luftwaffe could change things on a whim. Kriegies always knew that they were living on the razor's edge. Here is a web site that goes over all six POW camps that the Germans had
http://www.b24.net/pow/stalag3.htm



http://nolimitclan.com/sourcemaps.html

Ripster, first of all, Why are you advertising your map in my map's thread.

Second, Auschwitz was not composed of one camp, it was composed of 3 (actually more than 50 were under the Auschwitz Administration). Stammlager and Monowitz were respectively the POW and Forced labor camps. The Concentration/Extermination camp was BIRKENAU.

I'm getting VERY tired of this useless debate, most people here are showing a great deal of ignorance the minute you say "Auschwitz". Please, for the sake of this thread, go read about Stammlager or "Auschwitz I" before argueing as if this map was based on Birkenau.

Here's a quote from Wikipedia:
Auschwitz I, the original concentration camp which served as the administrative centre for the whole complex, and was the site of the deaths of roughly 70,000 people, mostly Poles and Soviet prisoners of war

Originally posted by modifiedgaming.net
peter you in here?

Hahaha :/

Ripster, first of all, Why are you advertising your map in my map's thread. [QUOTE]Dash If you guys enjoyed stalag13, then I don't see why you're against this one... You dragged my map in this topic I am just setting the record straight I dont want my map compared to yours at all !!!! And please dont try and school me on what "Auschwitz" is or was !!:mad:

Originally posted by Ripster
You dragged my map in this topic I am just setting the record straight I dont want my map compared to yours at all !!!! And please dont try and school me on what "Auschwitz" is or was !!:mad:

You wouldn't have posted if you knew what Auschwitz was in its totality.

New screenshots with custom textures (Entrance sign, Barbed wire, Barrack Roof Shingles and snow overlays on the road), as well as the new Winter version.

I'll remaind all of you...no flames or bashing allowed.

BTW...What I've found over the years is the people who post a lot about their maps are usually the ones with crappy maps because they spend more time talking about their maps than actually working on them. There are thousands of maps and mods who built fancy web sites or talked incessently about their work and that all amounted to nothing. The best mods and best mappers pound out content and do tests all the time and only occasionally stop long enough to take screens or post results of testing.

I don't think the amount of information posted by the map creator is relevant to the skill the creator has.
I personally like to keep up a journal of update somewhere, at least it gives some hopes to people who like custom maps that there are big projects going on, and also increases the hype made by the map thus leading to more propagation of the map once its released ;)

I don't really see why this is so contraversial, any other DOD map based on a real event probaly consisited of thousands of deaths, probaly with the same intent of that at this POW camp.
It's a disgusting event in history but we mustn't forget it.. or gloryify.

My two cents.

Try making the broken wall with displacement maps, it looks funny as a jagged peice of wall.

hes bulding a map in the "CAMP 1"
in Auschwitz ?

god man
i was just 2month ago in poland in a spicle tour tracking down the holocost
the things i didnt knew going on there ( and im israel so i know prety much alot )
thats not a place to make a map on dude

POW camp: camp where professional soldiers were held.

Concentration camp: camp where civilian men, women and children were systematically murdered. The civilian forced labour camps were little better.

Day of Defeat to date has not included the aspect of civilian casualties or atrocities . The axis and allies are simply icons of two opposing forces.
Realism in the maps has been focussed on historical military encounters, geographical layout and architecture.

I think this is where the contoversy over your map's "theme" rests.

Added new screenshots on the first post.

Changelog:

- Changed the roads to cobblestone, seems to fit more
- Changed block 24 to the appropriate building that is there.
- Added displacements to destroyed walls to make them look more realistic and less jaggy

Check out the gate comparison, I know there are some elements missing but I'm working on them ;)

those default models for the gate? or custom ones? or complex brushes?

Originally posted by Caldbeck
those default models for the gate? or custom ones? or complex brushes?

The gates are actually brushes with a nice material from DOD. The piece of metal over them that is shaped a bit like a sideways S are all detail brushes, the fence behind the gate door is a model, the barbed wire, the "Arbeit Mach Frei" and the barbershop-like posts are all custom materials.

I'm using strict optimization techniques in this map, the lowest FPS recorded was 60fps (and I run on all high settings with HDR OFF, 1280x1024)

I have profound knowledge of Maya, and there are some custom models in the map (lamps on the barbed wire posts, but I didn't take any screenshots of these yet)

Cool custom sign, dude.

I doubt many people will be offended by the map once it's released. I dont think a lot of people are offended by the fact that history exists... at least it would be absurd if they were.

Dash, I SALUTE you for your amazing attention to historical accuracy on this map! KEEP IT UP!!!

Plz bring back 40-64 players VALVe!! <3

Originally posted by V.C. Sniper
Plz bring back 40-64 players VALVe!! <3

Speaking of 40-64 players, dod_stammlager will be 64-player-friendly, it's also a farily large map that takes into consideration 12 to 32 player servers. (It's all designed on paper by the way ;) )

Terrific detailing!

Might i just say, from looking at your pic:
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm12.jpg

... the road needs a less width and the nature strip could be extended a little. In fact all the roads could do with a little less width :). And remember - the smaller the space the better performance!

Also it'd be great to have the nature strip displaced with the road and just alpha the snow/road, instead of having those two obvious brushes of road vs. nature strip ;).

Originally posted by trueblue
Terrific detailing!

Might i just say, from looking at your pic:
http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/stamm12.jpg

... the road needs a less width and the nature strip could be extended a little. In fact all the roads could do with a little less width :). And remember - the smaller the space the better performance!

Also it'd be great to have the nature strip displaced with the road and just alpha the snow/road, instead of having those two obvious brushes of road vs. nature strip ;).

I have to remind you of some things :P

First of all, Yes, the road seems to be too wide, but it's actually my poles that are too low, this has been corrected. The gate in real life is -very- wide!

Also, the trees you see in the Real-life picture were NOT present during WW2, these were planted to make the whole camp look a bit "nicer" (if I can say that) after the war!
I just used the more recent picture to show a color representation :P

Look at this picture (don't ask me how the poles arent black and white stripped in there, i have no clue to why):

http://www.daretogame.com/maps/1945aus.jpg

Updates!

I'm posting the 2 possible plans I had for dod_stammlager.

I'm asking everybody who's interested here which one they think would be more tactical and fun.

Here's a legend for the colors:
- Blue: What's going to be made
- Red: What is already made
- Orange: To be made, but will only be used as decoration (such as skybox elements)

- Green/Yellow lines = Possible routes, the thicker the line, the more important the route is.
- Routes ending in a circle = Routes leading to camping spots for snipers and/or MG's.

The first plan was the first one I drew down on paper. It's a very small map with a long road cutting across with a few side routes behind the barracks. It has TWO different Axis Spawns, which makes it a more defense map than flag-capture.

Pros: Feels like a real map where nazis defend their camp while Allies try to capture it. Anticipated short games.

Cons: May feel a bit too small and limited, the few routes make it for a repetitive game.

http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/plan_1.jpg


Plan 2 was made a few days ago, I took plan 1 and added a few things to it. The map is wayy bigger (about 40% bigger) and both the teams spawn in different areas, but they're more-or-less in the same places. There's no longer 2 axis spawns, and the Miradors are actually usable (guard towers). There are WAY many more routes to take to avoid snipers and MG's. The flags also seem to be placed in more logical places. (This is my personal favorite)

Pros: Historically more accurate, flags are placed logically, more routes. L shaped map that involves more tactical play.

Cons: Anticipated long long games and matches. Possible unfairness, Allies are closer to 3 of 5 flags, but this unfairness is hammered down due to Axis having Miradors so they can defend their last 2 flags.

http://www.daretogame.com/maps/stamm/plan_2.jpg

Tell me which one you prefer or if you have any comments or suggestions!


NOTE: This map is going to be 64-player compatible, don't bother with the numbers. Is plan 1 is chosen, it'll be 16-16 for axis and 32 for allies.

*COUGH*

I think I would prefer to play on the second plan.

I like the balance with axis on one side and the allies on the other.

It would be cool to introduce guard towers, sandbags, and other things that would make the streets more interesting for combat.

I think i'm liking the first plan better except for the fact that pathways will be limited on the left side, that orange area would have to be opened up for more pathway possibilities.

I finally went for the second.

As for sandbags and such, I will keep them out for accuracy's sake. There weren't any sandbags in the camps as far as I know :rolleyes: although they will be subtituted with crates, cars and trucks

It's a map in a game, get over it! It's not like he's condoning what psycho Hitler and his insane band of fools did there. If it makes you feel better just don't play axis on the map. Its part of WWII, you can't have WWII without it. All this politically correct crap makes me ill anymore. Be angry at the fools who try to say it never happened. Yea, there are some difficult issues associated with WWII, deal with it or go play CS:S. This whole game is wrapped around a world war that for the most part was about stopping Hitler and the Nazi’s (barring the pacific theatre). Now if the axis objective of the map was to get the innocent civilians from a train car to the gas chamber or the ovens and start them then cry foul. But, like alot of other maps, you're capping flags in a maze of buildings and objects in a usually historical setting for crying out loud.

It sounds like Dash had some relatives who might have been killed in a concentration camp. Maybe this is a way for him to put some of it to rest or something. The atrocities of what happened in concentration camps should never be forgotten so hopefully it will never happen again.

But this is just a game. Are you ever offended when you are an axis player mowing down an allied player with your weapon of choice? I didn’t think so.

How many of you have played Grand Theft Auto (or something similar) and laughed when you ran over an innocent bystander or shot a police officer? I know it doesn't really compare by example but you get the point.

JCC

:PARROT: ^^^^^^^^^:PARROT:

How many of you have played Grand Theft Auto (or something similar) and laughed when you ran over an innocent bystander or shot a police officer? I know it doesn't really compare by example but you get the point.

Well Jimmy, that is most likely the problem to begin with. It boggles the mind.

I'm happy to announce that the map is about 70% done!

I actually went for a THIRD plan, which is a mix between the first and the second. I'll leave it out as a surprise ;)

I will add some screenshots today of the completed center area of the map (The barracks) and also the german miradors, as well as the kitchen.

New screenshots up! These are the latest of the map... There are some optimization issues I need to fix, especially because the map is very very very big and has a lot of buildings...

looking good.. keep it comming!

nice looking map.

i actually bothered to read your description where you say that this was a labour camp with few executions, unlike some of the knee jerk reactions of people who believed this was an extermination camp.

and anyway, it was part of the war for good or bad. besides if you watch teh history channel every other documantary is on death camps, nazi's, ss history etc. so i can't see what the problem is.

Just posting an update post, the map is still in production, it wasn't abandoned or anything!!!

The map is about 75% complete, this includes all decoration and decals that I do as I map (just to keep my optimizing techniques up as I map)

I finished the whole left side of the map and about 3/4 of the right side of the map, all fencing is completed, there are 3 more barracks to add which 2 of them will be accessible and 1 decorative.

I had to cut down on the amount of accessible barracks because the gameplay was getting a bit too "mazey", people got confused as to where they were because almost all barracks look the same, lol.

The map is still architecturally accurate, but I modified the placement of some barracks and some key elements of the camp such as the execution wall, which is right in front of the kitchen just to add a bit of 'umpf' to the gameplay.

The map has quite a thick fog and its snowing, so snipers will have quite a hard time seeing enemies from very far, which calls for very experienced snipers, or even no snipers at all if some server admins want it. The map has NO sandbags, mainly because adding sandbags in this map is just wrong (they werent any sandbags in labor camps), but all MG nests were replaced by cars, crates and debris you can deploy on.

The map's final layout is U shaped, its a mix of the 2 prototype plans i showered before.

Some screenshots are coming soon :)

I'm a fairly liberal person but I have to say this is not something I want advertised on our threads. I don't care that it's accurate or looks good or whatever because it's offensive on so many levels that it boggles my mind. I'm sorry Dash...I'm closing this thread and any further posts by you advertising this map here will be closed and vould lead to you being banned.

It may be hypocritical to say any one map is any more offensive than another and we're playing a game that glorifies the killing of several dozen million people but even a game like this has limits of taste and acceptance and you've crossed the line. I should have closed this ages ago.