okay I like using alpha maps and all, but I am having a problem. That is - not all surfaces that are shiny are MIRROR shiny - sometimes they only reflect light, not images.

It is THIS that I wish to achieve with my DOD:S skins (sorry to use FarCry for the example)



for a real-life comparison of what I want to achieve look at the helmets in this pic
http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63762

Anyone know if this is possible in Source, and what the VMT varibles would be?

As a matter of fact, anyone have a link to a list of all the VMT variables?

If you figure out how to make those helmets shine I will love you forever.

is what i would love is to see the shiny like effect in call of duty 2 in dods! the helmets and all that in call of duty 2 are AWSOME!

I'm not exactly following you, Wile. Are you talking about giving select materials specific, independent Specular levels (Specular/Gloss)?

Originally posted by Narkotic
I'm not exactly following you, Wile. Are you talking about giving select materials specific, independent Specular levels (Specular/Gloss)?

Not exactly. More specifically, I don't know, becuase I'm not sure what you mean ;) Currently, the method I amd using, which uses enviroment cubemaps, is more for things that are "polished" shiny like a mirror; I am looking for a way to get them to just look shiny without the mirroring effect. A "dull" shiny, where it just reflects light.

Originally posted by DayofDfeat123
is what i would love is to see the shiny like effect in call of duty 2 in dods! the helmets and all that in call of duty 2 are AWSOME!

Too bad the game isnt. :(

i tried experimenting with this effect but i havent managed to get the mask working.

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/8250/dodflash01309wj.jpg

Yeah it is because the specular system in Source is not that great at all (specualr bloom would be nice).

So the best way to get the result you want (semi-flat/gloss) is to use a bump map. I have spent countless hours trying to get it without resorting to that but unless I missed something (which I doubt) it is not possible...for now.

Here are the variables to BTW http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Shader_Types_and_Parameters

Originally posted by tabu.jack
i tried experimenting with this effect but i havent managed to get the mask working.
*pic*
OMG! It's T1000! :eek:

Originally posted by Maxey
OMG! It's T1000! :eek:

I was going to say he's shot the Tin Man :p

Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
Not exactly. More specifically, I don't know, becuase I'm not sure what you mean ;) Currently, the method I amd using, which uses enviroment cubemaps, is more for things that are "polished" shiny like a mirror; I am looking for a way to get them to just look shiny without the mirroring effect. A "dull" shiny, where it just reflects light.

Doesn't your reskinned Garand have that kind of shine, where it's only reflecting light?

As someone else mentioned... what you are talking about is called 'Specularity'.

i got this to work perfectly, without having the full gloss but i got consistancey errors, if anyone wants the file dont hesitate to PM me.

Try this...

Set $envmap to "vgui\white" in your VMT. Not sure if it will work as its not an actual envmap VTF although you could make a new one with 6 white sides and point to that instead.

If you use that with a tweaked alpha mask you should find it just reflects white instead of the environment map.

Yeah...but then it would look bad in dark areas.

Tried it or just pontificating?

I am simply specualating...I don't see any way it would not end up bad...

I fooled around with an env map for a garand after looking at this thread, if you make a combination of a normal map and a very faint alpha (barely visible) the affect is close to what I think you are looking for.

And no if the env map is subtle enough it wont shine in shadows like some do. By subtle I mean turn down the saturation

Did you get consistancey errors?

Not so far, and I dont know how it would look on anything else, it didnt exactly look good on the garand, but it was close to what I think he wants.

Heres what I got with my garand

Well the whole bump and alpha thing I have done, here is a couple releases using that method:

http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61970

I also sort-of did that with all my weapons, if any of these are close to what you want then it is all through normal maps (with editing) and alpha ref channels:






If none of those are what you need, then we should keep looking :p

That's awesome tone.

by the way, if anbody wants that 30 Cal:

http://www.cdg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27348&highlight=cal

Thanks :)

I am actually using the default 30

Originally posted by totally_tonedef
Thanks :)

I am actually using the default 30 It looks like the default 30 Cal that Soul Slayer added polies to and fixed the barrel...The carry handle is very round...just like his.

:confused:

The easy way to tell is the knob on the top, he made his a little more fancey. Though mine has depth thanks to the normal map.

Originally posted by Trp. Jed
Tried it or just pontificating? Tried it real quick - Tonedef was right - partially. It looks like crap %100 of the time. No reflection, solid white (according to alphamap guidelines) ALL the time.

what I need is a way too make one surface appear to reflect light, and light only, not reflections, better than it's surrounding surfaces.

maybe it would be possible by somehow blurring the envcubemap, but I have no clue how you would do that in the VMT

See...I wish there were many different ways to do this stuff. I mean I look at that Offset engine, UE3, and even CryEngine2...they all have so many features from Sub-Surface Scattering to Specular Bloom to self shadows. Valve really needs to step it up if they want to compete with those engines when they start to be released...in just a matter of months.

True, Source wasn't really that next-gen in terms of graphics, but in the end it looks more realistic than most others though, for the most part most "next-gen" games have objects than shine like everyhing ismade of plastic

Only "next-gen" engins I have seen do that are cheap ones, (i.e. Reality Engine) But if you check out Offset, UE3 or even CryEngine2 everything "shines" respectively.

I remember trying to do this awhile back but I can't remember at the moment what I did exactly. I got a really good shiny helmet, but I also was getting consistency errors.
This was after the fact I was rejoicing after viewing it in hlmv, then finding out I couldnt use it in servers.

If I can retrace the procedure i'll post it here. From what it looks like I did what FBOTheLiuetenant was explaining.

[I may be wrong on this*] I don't think that world or player alphas can be messed with without getting consistency errors.

Originally posted by cruzaderazn
I remember trying to do this awhile back but I can't remember at the moment what I did exactly. I got a really good shiny helmet, but I also was getting consistency errors.
This was after the fact I was rejoicing after viewing it in hlmv, then finding out I couldnt use it in servers.

If I can retrace the procedure i'll post it here. From what it looks like I did what FBOTheLiuetenant was explaining.

[I may be wrong on this*] I don't think that world or player alphas can be messed with without getting consistency errors. I belive that is correct

I am working on a little something...I will do some more when I get back from classes...at like 4 :(... anyway, I hope it works.

Originally posted by cruzaderazn
[I may be wrong on this*] I don't think that world or player alphas can be messed with without getting consistency errors. This isn't just for player model helmets, although that was a thought. This was also for just about every other type of model out there. There are MANY surfaces this would apply to, especially weapons that have been Parkerized ;)

Ok I just got home, and as for the helmet bit I figure that I would work on that to see if I can get the desired effect.

A little off topic...boy I can't wait for the UE3!

http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/2736/963_0001.jpg

I think those helmets have that effect you want...oh and his lips...and skin....and boots lol.

Ok! I think I have it! Since you want to use it on other objects than player models, not only is it about the bump and simply making a dark envmask...well it is actually easier...you can just gray scale your skin, darken a bit if you would like, but in the vmt file mess with the tint factor.

"vertexlitgeneric"
{
"$basetexture" "models\weapons\v_models\30cal/v_30cal"
"$bumpmap" "models\weapons\v_models\30cal/v_30cal_normal"
"$envmap" "env_cubemap"
"$envmaptint" "[.25 .25 .25]"
"$normalmapalphaenvmapmask" 1
}


Here is my result with that 30 cal

(Left: Old version with tint at .5; Right: New version from code above...same mask)

Thanks! Will test this out extensively ;)

err isnt that what has already been said, anywhay it works for v models not for w

Not anywhere I had read. Sorry :)

But yeah...stupid restrictions on the world models sucks. I had just got the helmet perfect. I even tried using a seperate mask.vtf so I wouldn't use alphas, but it wouldn't work.

That sucks then... hopefully Valve will change its policy on world model and player model reflections later, at least enough for us to do this snazzy effect.

CS:S didnt have this problem why DoD?

Originally posted by FBOTheLiuetenant
CS:S didnt have this problem why DoD? I am thinking it is because, and I don't want to get this deleted so I'm not gonna say how, they want to prevent an unfair "trick" (that may or may not amount to a cheat) Please do not take that part of this discussion any further; I would like for this thread to NOT be deleted!

totally_tonedef

I like that effect, but how much does it show up out in full light, like say in the street?

Oh, man. I wish I wasn't on dial-up now. -_-

@Agent: It is decent in the light. I mean it is not over bearing at all. But there is no SS that could do it justice. When you move you can just see the shine move across the surface.

If you would like I could send you the files for that 30 cal... :)


Finding out how to do effects was fun, anyone think of anymore they may want to try and get? We can all put our heads together again :p

Tonedef

Is there a link in the forums for the dl of the 30 cal?

If not just send me a pm.

Originally posted by FBOTheLiuetenant
CS:S didnt have this problem why DoD?

I remember when did a skin for CS:S and I wanted to make the model have shinier boots and "shiny" leather gloves. I was able to pull it off, plus there was no consistency error.

Then DoD:S came out and an update to CS:S that didn't allow skinners to change those sort of things.

So...CS:S does have this problem too.

Okay, I just remember back when you could change the alpha for player models, damn. What causes the errors is it just from an update to how the graphics work or is it intentionally keeping us from changing it?

Originally posted by FBOTheLiuetenant
Okay, I just remember back when you could change the alpha for player models, damn. What causes the errors is it just from an update to how the graphics work or is it intentionally keeping us from changing it? Read my previous post in this thread.

Can't you solve this with specular setting?

And btw, when to use forward slash and when backslash in a line like $basetexture?

Example:

"$basetexture" "models\weapons\v_models\30cal/v_30cal"

Sorry Wile E I forgot to read this thread for a couple days...

How would you get the specular to only show up on the helmet though?

Sorry for bumping an old topic. However, it appears that in Episode One of HL2, Alyx gets a makeover, with some specular mapping, I believe. You can notice it here (headband on Alyx's head):

URL (http://www.gameinformer.com/Templates/News/ScreenShotsViewer.aspx?CS_pid={F7B446FE-1FBF-4177-BA0A-2932588AA76D}&mediaId=38)

Is this the effect Wile was trying to achieve?

I believe the Gravity Gun here's also using the effect:
URL (http://www.gameinformer.com/Templates/News/ScreenShotsViewer.aspx?CS_pid={F7B446FE-1FBF-4177-BA0A-2932588AA76D}&mediaId=8)

A post on HL2world posted this:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1603/lightingtest00020yd.jpg (got effect into source models)

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/5779/dedust01050zb.jpg

(Unfortunately, this conflicts with server consistency. But nevertheless, was this the effect?)

I think that was the effect, to bad dods wouldn't let you guys use it.

I think its phong occulsion thats been added with a mask. Not to sure on the details but I think its sub-surface type stuff you see on skin.

Wile your dream come true
http://www.halflife2.net/news//1151090503_screen_608.jpg

about damn time those helmets got shiny!

Makes the game look a lot better...well...at least the helmets.

Wow, that looks awesome! I hope Wile E Coyote's skins get the reflection automatically. 4 more days, boys!

Originally posted by Kieffer [5th RB]
I hope Wile E Coyote's skins get the reflection automatically. I doubt it, I've moved all my custom stuff to a seperate folder until after the update. I have a feeling that it's going to reak havok with custom content.

Originally posted by Kieffer [5th RB]
Wow, that looks awesome! I hope Wile E Coyote's skins get the reflection automatically. probably not.

update has already been planned by me. Same with weapons.
The official update should not screw with any content, BUT I would remove it anyway to make sure you see all the new Default changes.

just a little more info:

phong shader. That's what it's called apparently. I just didn't know the name. Here is what it does:

http://libsh.org/shaders/env/env.jpg
This is an enviroment mapping shader. Looks like a mirror. This has been currently the only thing available to skinners in DOD:S


http://libsh.org/shaders/phong/phong.jpg
This is a phong shader. See the difference? looks like it is reflecting light, but doesn't reflective the entire world like a mirror.

Yea! Finally!

I know! About time!!! I am so excited. Any word on whether it is realtime or not? This is going to do wonders for weapons too!

Any word on what time the updates coming out?

Just create your own specular map using a heightmap, black n white, the white areas will render as a highlight

Originally posted by Someth|ngW|cked
Just create your own specular map using a heightmap, black n white, the white areas will render as a highlight

Doesn't achieve the same effect. Anyways...DoD:S will be updated soon, so we can play around with the new features.