Second public beta for dod_churchyard
Changes include:
-Custom Objective Icons, it makes identifying the flags easier
-More optimization, my pc got a 25-35% boost in FPS while in LAN in the lowest areas.
-Minor layout changes, including an additional allies spawn exit


*DOWNLOAD*
http://www.907th.com/file.php?id=555



http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=016pr.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=022jp.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=031te.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=044lo.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=058cs.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?...allpaper2fg.jpg

Nice I quite like that lighting

Real nice map, I can confirm the fps is better, well done.

Mirror updated: http://www.landofozz.net/pafiledb/pafiledb.php?action=download&id=292




Can't wait to take a look at the optimization alone!!


Thanks, MrGrubby. I like the map's design, we talked briefly in-game somewhere (probably 907th, lol) and with the additional exit that side shouldn't be a problem. Hopefully you can pull some more fps out of her for the final release!!

--Ozz

Dang, I have such high hopes for this map, but as of yet, it's still too laggy.

The lighting is superb and the gameplay is solid, so I'll keep an anxious eye out for the next update.

likewise.


The same thing that helps make this map pretty and functional is the same thing killing the fps. The hedgerows. However you have them assembled or something weird or too many polys, whatever, the hedges bring my 7800 gtx ko to its knees at 13 fps directly in front of them. If I were to do the same at a wall I would be hitting 85 or higher.


I hope you can optimise the map to improve the fps because it truely does deserve it.


--Ozz

Are you guys using AA?
That'll kill this map. Im on a 64 3500+, 1Gig, 9800pro and will get ~60fps consistantly with 20 people on a server.

Running around in LAN I'm getting 90's most of the time dipping into the high 70's in the worst places.

- All flags that don't take 2 people should already be capped at the start of a match. People pile up on the first and second flags to get a cap point, and this can lead to blocked pathways.

-First flags should take less time.

- Just had a playtest with 2 very evenly matched teams, and the Axis whopped Allies. That church tower is a real pain...

-People are using the nw Allies spawn, so good job with that.

-Does need some more optimization.

Yes Mcgrubby. I play with 8x AA and 16x AF. The AF does nothing to my card, and I play all the other maps with this setup with good results.

--Ozz

Originally posted by theozzmancometh
Yes Mcgrubby. I play with 8x AA and 16x AF. The AF does nothing to my card, and I play all the other maps with this setup with good results.

--Ozz

That'll do it. This map isn't quite like all the other maps.

/Edit:
I wanted to see the effects it had, so I cranked up AA and AF and got around 17fps. With no AA and only trilinear filtering, fps was in the 90's.

Because of all the props and "jaggies" they create, your pc has to work double time on the AntiAliasing. The big, bumpy fileds, and the bushes give your pc a lot to handle with anisotropic filtering, at 16x there are a lot of textures you are processing many times over. If you choose to use these settings, the map will look great, but you're taking a huge hit that you dont really need to be taking.

This has to be one of my favorite maps, but the fps really does let it down. You sort that and you're on to a winner in my books!

The reason for the poor FPS is because the "vis blocks" are the hedges. One problem. The hedges are models, so they don't block vis! That means that pretty much the whole map is being rendered most the time which is the big FPS killer here.

Solutions:

- Replace the hedgerow models with brush based ones. This will probably look pretty tacky though.

- - You could always place a brush with a hedge texture on it down the middle of the bushes.

- Place a brush with nodraw texture across the hedgerows. Again, you'll suffer visually. Light won't come through the hedges.

Personally I think that if you put a hedge texture on a brush and place the brushes along the hedgerows just before it gets to the top of the model this won't look too bad and will significantly improve the FPS!

Keep up the good work! I love this map!

This map is one of the smoothest I've played...dunno what ya's are on about

Love the map as does the community
If Im alone on the map, my fps are 70-90

With 20 players, fps by hedges dips to 30 and average fps is around 60-70.

Regardless, the map feels very smooth , good gameplay and a lot of fun .

Originally posted by summit
This map is one of the smoothest I've played...dunno what ya's are on about

The map plays smoothly for me too, but you can NEVER ignore the fact that a lot of people are experiencing FPS drops and then cut them out altogether for that reason! Unless you're lazy :p

I agree. You cant make the map play bad for a whole group of people. All thats going to happen is your map will never get played. I would love to put this on our server but it wont happen till the FPS get fixed.

Originally posted by El Capitan
The map plays smoothly for me too, but you can NEVER ignore the fact that a lot of people are experiencing FPS drops and then cut them out altogether for that reason! Unless you're lazy :p


Honestly, MrGrubby, like I said, I like the map and its layout and from what I've seen, the gameplay, but I didn't spend almost a grand in a video card and a monitor (card was twice the monitor) to play at 13 fps. The stock maps all pull 45-75 steady and most other customs hit near 100 at these settings.

I do acknowledge that the AA is killing my fps, but with it not affecting other maps as bad I most certainly leave it on to enjoy the best graphical game out there to date.

The Anisotropic filtering setting does not affect my card's fps whether it's bilinear or 16x, and yes you can see the difference!!!

eVGA 7800 GTX KO on a Sceptre x20-Naga III
P4 640 (3.2GHz) on an intel board 1GB DDR400, SATA

The hedges are where the AA is killing my fps.

My friend really digs this map, so I gave it a stab yesterday myself. I have to admit I enjoyed it a lot, it looks and plays great (for me at least).

Once again - I don't know what everyone is one about, this map being laggy or what not. I found it very smooth

1024x768 res, no AA, no HDR, all textures set to high, trillenear filtering.
ATI 9700 pro card.

Personally I really liked this map. Good job!

I do want to add that I do LOVE the map m8, I just like the fps to be better than stocks. Without everything on, I can own on this map and it has plenty of places for a BAR to go!!


Great Job!




One concern I have is that the shadows from either spawn area seem to have seperate suns..... were you forced into this setup to achieve the feel you were looking for?

--Ozz

Beautiful lighting, have yet to try it, doubt my FPS wil be an issue though ;). Aside from the FPS being an issue for some how is the level itself, whats the best level design aspect

Great Map , amazing to see how much its progressed since the 1st churchyard, is the most popular custom on our server and requested more than any other.

Not sure why that fellas getting FPS issues, i have 7800 GTX and run 8 x AF and 4 x AA and its fine..

Just one question for Mr Grubby.. players can get onto the churchroof by boosting each other onto the roof the small part at the back that juts out on the American side, then jumping onto the main church roof.

Would you consider this an exploit as if you try and get out via the Church tower you fall off the roof , which kinda suggests you didnt want ppl there ..

Causes a lot of debate on the server re this , i kind of think its ok, because they are very easy to spot and dont tend to last long

Originally posted by quint
Great Map , amazing to see how much its progressed since the 1st churchyard, is the most popular custom on our server and requested more than any other.

Not sure why that fellas getting FPS issues, i have 7800 GTX and run 8 x AF and 4 x AA and its fine..

Just one question for Mr Grubby.. players can get onto the churchroof by boosting each other onto the roof the small part at the back that juts out on the American side, then jumping onto the main church roof.

Would you consider this an exploit as if you try and get out via the Church tower you fall off the roof , which kinda suggests you didnt want ppl there ..

Causes a lot of debate on the server re this , i kind of think its ok, because they are very easy to spot and dont tend to last long

Thanks for the comments, there is also another way to get up there and you dont need any help ;) It is considered an exploit. For _b6 the clipping on the church is going to be fixed/finished all around.

This map is definitely among my favorite custom maps... unique setting and layout, and stylistically solid. I just talked my clan into putting this up on our server.

As a mapper myself I have to admit this map was very inspiring and influential on the current map I'm making (in terms of that outdoors/open feel and love of the hedge).

Originally posted by quint
Not sure why that fellas getting FPS issues, i have 7800 GTX and run 8 x AF and 4 x AA and its fine..

You realize that only a small percentage of gamers have cards that nice (4% have 7800 series) to be able to play this map at frames above 30fps consistently? For those of you with less than stellar video cards the map can be a challenge but there are console commands that can make the map much easier to run.

1) Run w/low shadows and no HDR.
2) Remove grass (some consider this a exploit but it's available for now).
3) Remove small breakable client-side stuff like bottles, bits-of-trash, etc

The first is obvious (shaders, etc) and the second two reduce the overall count of models in view and being processed by the engine. The second two will give you a solid 20-30% increase in fps.

all that isn't necessary though. Just turn off AA, like the author said! I run this map just fine, as smooth as every other map out there - and probably because I play with no AA. Always have. AND - I'm using a vidcard over 3 years old - an ATI 9700 pro... with non-updated 3 year old drivers no less! So grubby was right; turn off AA and watch your FPS magically rise.

Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
all that isn't necessary though. Just turn off AA

It's all video-card and CPU dependent. I run w/AA off and still gain a huge amount of fps by just running w/out the grass sprites/models. You should try it. A lot of folks will think it's an exploit...but a lot like stopsound in the old days, if it's an available console command it's thereby not considered a cheat. In this case the Source engine does such a poor job with perf when you get more than 10-15 people in view at once I think legal commands like the one I use here are appropriate.

Pic1 w/grass (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/1on.jpg)
Pic1 wo/grass (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/1off.jpg)
Pic2 w/grass (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/2on.jpg)
Pic2 wo/grass (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/2off.jpg)
Pic3 w/grass (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/3on.jpg)
Pic3 wo/grass (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/3off.jpg)
Pic4 w/grass (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/4on.jpg)
Pic4 wo/grass (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/4off.jpg)

for _b6 the number of grass sprites has been chopped down and I've cut down the number of overlays to about half. They added detail to the maps and made it look better but there are a few who complain about the fps... this will help make them much happier.
It's been sitting on the shelf for a while, but I'll finish the other stuff I'm changing and get it out.

A lot of folks will think it's an exploit...but a lot like stopsound in the old days, if it's an available console command it's thereby not considered a cheat.

Just remember that if you play on pubs and in leagues to remove those cvars before a match. They are considered illegal.

Originally posted by RosietheRiveter
Just remember that if you play on pubs and in leagues to remove those cvars before a match. They are considered illegal.

Only if so stated in the MoTD or league rules. I'm not sure what the devs will do with them...but the fps issue will not go away until either we out-horsepower the game or they figure out a way to give us farcry-like grass at the same perf.

I only meant that it is considered illegal in the leagues. Turning grass off is a 6 month suspension in CAL, not sure how severe a penalty in the others.

There is no series of checks on public servers. You are right, the definition of an exploit is definitely determined by the server operators and hopefully outlined in their MOTD.

Yeah I found that "spot" that lets you get on the church. From the church roof you can pretty much get on any hedge, but I had a hard time getting anywhere really "bad" from there.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
You realize that only a small percentage of gamers have cards that nice (4% have 7800 series) to be able to play this map at frames above 30fps consistently? For those of you with less than stellar video cards the map can be a challenge but there are console commands that can make the map much easier to run.


Indeed totally agree, what i meant was the other guy who raised the issue rather strongly had similar kit to me and was complaining the map was barely playable with AA / AF, which i dont find at all

McGrubby,

Have heard you have used non-snow models of the Sherman in your map? If so, where did you get them?

I'm pretty sure the shermans have snow skins on them ;)
I'm waiting for Valve to release the proper ones, hopefully for the next beta.

well this has been in rotation for the last few weeks at TheOc and is the only other custom we have permanent along with Anvil, yet we seem to play it every other map , its requested that much.

Both Anvil and this are superb maps and really do deserve to be offcial

Dont get me wrong theres many a great custom sprung up this year but these two are gobsmacking

Words cannot express how much we love this map, thank you for doing something different

any news on the next beta ..

www.theoc-clan.com
195.62.10.69:27035

McGrubby
just like to say
I like your map !

Well, got to play it for a while today. My team really sucked so i got tired after a while.

It really really rocks, to bad it is so hard to spot campers a bit of and some people had bad fps, I didn´t notice any problems (7800gt, 3400+ 1GB ram).

And also, why not get away with removing some hedgerows in an area where the fps is especially bad and just make a wall, trim it with some green and I think it wil blend in well. I am not saying get rid of the Hedgerows but after all it is a churchyard and those priest fellows liked stone walls to protect their precious gold and valuables...

Also when looking at the screens that was posted with grass on/off some areas looked really without grass to.

Well, party time now, and good work!!!!

Hi,

Soz for bringing up the post again, but please could we get a small update. The map is literally bug free, and wondering if you could release it as a final.

Only complaint i have is...Is the church ment to be able to jump on?

Thx
zippy