(classic question) schwetzlike spawns

03-16-2006, 02:33 PM
I've been trying to figure out how to make these for a while, and I can't seem to find a tutorial on it. I heard there was one at mardymouse, but I couldn't find it. Also nothing on the forums here about it...so can anyone help me out? I know it involves a dod_preround, probably a few multis..but I can't seem to figure out how to move the spawns like that.

Ol' Noodle Head
03-16-2006, 02:36 PM
I want to do this too, for Source. I need them, like, now!!

03-16-2006, 09:11 PM
What are Schwetz's spawns like? IIRC, one team has to wait in their spawn or something?

Ol' Noodle Head
03-16-2006, 10:30 PM
They had a time delay (30 seconds?) to give the Axis time to set up their defense.

I loved that map. Some people hated it. But those people were wrong and have since been flogged into impotent silence.

03-16-2006, 11:10 PM
i just read an excellent tutorial on this on interlopers.net


03-17-2006, 12:17 AM
@TheMiede: this in an info_doddetect tutorial, nothing helpful.

in dod1.3 the moving spawn entities :

1x multisource
1x env_global
2x trigger_relay

the dod_control_point_master was trigger for the relay entities,
trigger_relay and dod_score_entīs has the same name
relayīs has env_global as target
the env_global was the main trigger
the info_player_axis/allies had an "master: **" flag which triggered the multisource
the off switched spawns were called "~name"
the first round spawns were called "name" (same name whitout ~)
source (http://people.freenet.de/derErnst/seitenwechsel-tut.html)

so itīs in the old map dod_schwetz but in source you canīt give the info_players an flag/name to switch off- maybe it will not work

03-17-2006, 12:52 AM
yea ... MardyMouse.co.uk has a tut map about it. Just a map not a complete tut on it.

Look for the dod_flag_rotate one in the download section.

03-18-2006, 06:39 AM
Thanks very much guys :) That's exactly what I needed; all of that tutorial, the response about the 1.3 ents, and the info about the rotating flag map that shows it a bit too. Very much appreciated :)

03-18-2006, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by Dwin
What are Schwetz's spawns like? IIRC, one team has to wait in their spawn or something?

Well, yes, but what I was referring to by schwetzlike spawns was this:

In schwetz, one team defends the town and one attacks it, and when the round ends(i.e. the timer runs out and the defenders win or the attackers capture all the defender flags), the teams switch spawns entirely and the defenders become the attackers. The previous attackers are now the defenders and all flags are assigned to them, and only attackers can touch the cap zones - i.e. once a point is lost, it's lost. That's what I'm trying to do - rotating spawns in which attackers become defenders and vice versa. I understand how to make advancing spawns(by assigning different spawn points to different flags at different status), but not how to do this. I haven't been able to view that mardymouse map yet though, as I am at work, so maybe that explains it. I also haven't been able to try the method someone typed out yet.

03-18-2006, 09:00 AM
Okay, thanks mostly to haircut I finally got this all figured out. Didn't realize there was a tutorial map there that had everything I needed. This is my first experience using trigger relays too, to be honest...while I've been mapping for a long time and consider myself a vertex manipulation master, I never really took much time to learn about entities aside from the basic ones that all maps need(mg deployable triggers, flags, spawns, lighting, etc).

So me learning how to do this brings up another question:

Would I be able to use the same type of system to affect other things between rounds? For example...I doubt this is possible, but would I be able to use a global to control which of two light_environments is active in order to make one round during the day, one at night, etc? This is also most likely how overlord was done, correct? So that when the allies won the first round and broke through the beach area, the global would be triggered and because of its change of state the extra sandbags preventing return to the beach would appear, as well as the spawns switching? Sorry for asking so much, but this topic has actually finally started to make the whole entity thing click in my brain. :)

And thanks again everyone for all the help you've given so far.

03-18-2006, 11:06 AM
I think yes ! but to the light no .. try it.
i had an similar idea in my old mapping days, to 2 maps in 1
first round map1 , second round spawn switch to map2. :x

03-18-2006, 12:18 PM
I might be completely wrong and all.. But I seem to think (or remember) that the teams switched side depending on who won the round? (If the Allies won, Axis would start the next round attacking, if Axis won, they kept defending)

Am I wrong?

03-18-2006, 06:51 PM
It might have been that way, but I don't think so. However, based on how the rotating spawns thing is set up to be based on a global, theoretically you could use the same global to affect that...just have two dod_prerounds, one with the tilde and one without just like in the rotating spawns thing, and have them both be the same name again...and depending on which team was defending, the correct dod_preround will be called, and that preround will change the status of the global depending on whether the defenders lost or won.

You could do that, right?

And yeah happyernst, I think you could totally do that, although both the maps would have to be pretty small(for classic anyway), and you'd have to be able to use two different light_environments, which is something I haven't tried yet. If you know you can divide the map like that and have separate environmental lights, then heck yeah it would work. Maybe I'll throw together a test map and check it out. :)

03-19-2006, 02:28 PM
Ok, now I'm just having a problem with the flags. I want them to be just like schwetz - start in control of the defending team and be non-recapturable by them as well. How do you suppose I should go about making it so only the attackers can touch the flags? Is there a way to assign flags to a team besides the "Default Owner of the control point" field? Because I can't really create two copies of the same flag, one for each status of the env_global, can I? Or is that possible? Maybe setting the same index and using the tilde name thing?

03-20-2006, 05:14 AM
I believe you can as long as the entity has a master property.

Schwetz's did it by having two capture zones on the flags. One for Allies and one for Axis, Kami (the mapper) just set them up to switch on and off between rounds depending on who needed to cap them.

This was done so that the defending team coudn't cap the flag back and yes, you swaped spawns regardless of who won the round.

I believe this is how the map works, it can still be played but I've not tried if for a long time.

03-20-2006, 05:49 AM
So I was right? :)

It's been way too long since I've played schwetz or anything that looks/plays like it..

God that was a kickass map :(

03-22-2006, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by haircut
I believe you can as long as the entity has a master property.

Schwetz's did it by having two capture zones on the flags. One for Allies and one for Axis, Kami (the mapper) just set them up to switch on and off between rounds depending on who needed to cap them.

This was done so that the defending team coudn't cap the flag back and yes, you swaped spawns regardless of who won the round.

I believe this is how the map works, it can still be played but I've not tried if for a long time.

That's what I thought, but when I tried to do it that way...for some reason now when the 2nd round starts and the allies control the flags(axis start with them), when an axis goes to cap the flag it will fill up the cap meter, but for some reason if I leave the cap zone it says the axis capture was broken, and won't let me cap the flags back. I must have some setting messed up.

edit: nevermind, figured it out. I had a master on the control point master entity.

03-22-2006, 07:10 AM
The only problem I'm having now(and this is probably a pretty noobish problem but it's one more thing I never learned..), is setting it up so that the team that is defending owns the flags at the beginning of the round. I can't just set the default owner in the dod_control_point to the team, because the team switches each round. I'm also trying to figure out how to set it up so that if the defending team wins, they defend again. I thought I had it all nice and sneaky, by using multi_managers triggered by a dod_preround, two multi_managers with the same name, one for each state of the flag global...and depending on the combination of that state and the result of the last round you could tell whether the allies were defending and won or what, and it would trigger the proper dod_point_relays to give them ownership of the points at the beginning...trouble is, dod_point_relays pretty much count as capping the point, so it just causes the round to be won over and over.

So is that a noobish question? I'm not sure. If anyone has a suggestion as to how I would set the flags to be owned by default by the defenders(i.e., using a multisource named ms_flagstate, ms_flagstate for Axis to defend and ~ms_flagstate for Allies to defend.)

If I can figure that out I'll have this map just how I want it. ;)

03-25-2006, 07:09 AM
Still need help with the last question I asked(how to set up flags to start out being owned by the team that is currently defending). I've been looking into game_team_master and game_team_set entities(reading on the old VERC Collective site), and am starting to think it may have something to do with those. I thought that I could simply have two dod_control_points for each control point, the duplicates having the same index but being set to the ms_flagstate(multisource) master, but that didn't work...giving the flags a multisource master seems to have no effect on whether they're active or not.

(now keep in mind this is all just theory so I still want to hear any thoughts anyone has:)
So I was reading up on it and when I get home from work today I'm going to see if I can set it up so that I have the dod_control_point entities mastered to a game_team_master that starts with a team value of 2(axis) since axis are defending at the start, and then at the end of the round have a game_team_set change the game_team_master to the other team.

Or, I'm also going to try having it so that I have two game_team_masters, both with the same name, but one mastered to each state of the multisource ms_flagstate, and then have all control points mastered to the game_team_masters(since they have the same name). Now, I'm still kinda noobish with this entity stuff, but when I have two entites with a master property and one is active and one is not, and they both have the same name, and I call that name, only the active one gets called, right?

Just two theories I had as to how to do this. I wish it was that simple that I could just set the control_points to have a default owner of a defined team "defenders", and just have which team is that change each round, but I don't know if that's possible.

This stuff gets really confusing. :)

03-28-2006, 08:00 PM
Nevermind, I figured it out.

I didn't realize ever(up until now) that you were supposed to fill in a flag group on all your flags and the dod_control_point_master, and that is what pretty much solved the problem for me.

You need two dod_control_point_masters if you want to set it up like schwetz....one for each state of the multisource...and each one has its own set of flags(the opposing flags of the same location have the same index, which you must set). Since the flags that are controlled by the dod_control_point_master that is turned off each round will appear as owned by no one, but wont show up on the hud(since their dod_control_point_master is not active), you can just set them to null.mdl when neutral so they won't show up. For each group, set the default owner of the flags to the team that will be defending that round based on the state of the multisource(to which you link your dod_control_point_master's master property), and they will start with the flags. You also have to place two invisible flags(one for each group) that are owned by default by the ATTACKERS, so that the defenders don't repeatedly win the round by owning all the flags. This also allows you to set it up so defenders can recapture the flags(and indeed control all flags on the hud) without winning the round.

It took a lot of figuring out and learning, but I finally got it. I hope someone else can put this information to use as well. :)

Special thanks to haircut for his help and suggestions via PM.

03-28-2006, 11:49 PM
ahhh ... nice one.

I just PM'ed you again stating this ... good to see you sorted it out.

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