Ok this is a realy dumb question but why in the hell does the guns look like there <3<3<3ing 1 and half feet long wide!! is it because if the origins or what? and could someone try to make them not look fat as hell. ok and talk among yourselves.:)

which guns exactly? can you post a picture because they seem pretty correct to me... ive shot a kar and a garand and they both are accurately represented in dods

It's all perpspective. Hold a butter knife up to your face and it looks several inches thick while it's still only 3/16th's of an inch thick. Most long arms have some heft and bulk to them, especially when you've got them shouldered.

Ok look at the m1 carbine to me it looks fat as hell only the m1 carbine,m1 garand kinda,thompson, and thats it.


http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/6686/picy0qp.jpg

I'd say it's mostly because you're only looking at from the perspective of a single "eye." If we had stereoscopic support in DOD:S, it would probably look normal.

well it looks correct to me... you really need to hold the real thing to realise thats how it looks.

edit: try closing one eye and looking at it... it forces your brain to see in 2d

maybe ill post a sholdered pic of my enfield

Originally posted by carter6156
well it looks correct to me... you really need to hold the real thing to realise thats how it looks.

edit: try closing one eye and looking at it... it forces your brain to see in 2d

maybe ill post a sholdered pic of my enfield thats surprising how much of a difference it makes

Oh, and v_models (weapons) are rendered with a different FOV angle than the rest of the world.

That line you drew does not show the wideness of the gun in the view. you drew a line from the edge of the end of the woodpiece to the top edge of the top wood piece.

In other woulds you drew a straight horizontal line, across an angled piece of geometry.

And what the others are saying its true, but its more easily seen if you use something other than a butter knife.. like pick up a bottle or something, hold it kinda close ot your face vertical, then point the tip away from you and notice how it looks different.

Maybe if the gun looked like it has the stocks at your shoulder but you arent looking down the sights, it would look better.

I don't see what is wrong with the weapon model, it looks fine to me. Maybe you have a problem understanding the geometry of 3d objects in different points of view...

Originally posted by Trp. Jed
Oh, and v_models (weapons) are rendered with a different FOV angle than the rest of the world.

Well this is the first time reading this... Is the world rendered with an FOV of 90, or is it 75?

World is 90, guns at 54 (I think).

Originally posted by bazooka
World is 90, guns at 54 (I think). You are correct.
And if anyone is not sure just how utterly STUPID (or if they have forgotten) weapons look at the default 90 FOV, you can just look for yourself in the Valve SDK modelviewer. Down in the left corner of the "render" tab is a block to change the FOV.

But I'll save you the trouble, and show you all what it looks like ;)

I actualy like the 90 degree one ... it just seems more realistic at what the rifle would look like if you were to hold it yourself imo.

Is this the same in hl1 dod? I know some custom models just look different some how.

90 degree FOV wouldnt be bad if the origins were redone to not be so off to one side like it is. Thats what grinds my gears the people in most FPSs tend to hold thier guns as far to the right(or left) as possible.

Originally posted by IceWolve
Is this the same in hl1 dod? I know some custom models just look different some how.

If you look at the stock 1.3 models the ends have be shortened and widened (like a trumpet) to give the impression of false perspective when drawn. Because custom models don't do this, thats why they look longer and thinner.

Originally posted by Trp. Jed
If you look at the stock 1.3 models the ends have be shortened and widened (like a trumpet) to give the impression of false perspective when drawn. Because custom models don't do this, thats why they look longer and thinner. *AHEM* The one weapon model I made did :P (did I say make? I meant an M249 I converted to CS from Firearms) Had to add in the false perspective.

I think some people just prefer the long skinny "hypodermic needle" look of the 90 FOV guns simply because that is what they are used to from HL1 mods. Blame Counter Strike for that. Heck, even TFC had false perspective weapons, don't know why all the HL1 mod makers didn't follow suit (*cough* *cough* *early DOD versions* *cough*) :D

Well i know the weapons in dod 1.3 default ones where widened at the end. like the enfield.

But i personaly like it with out the false perspective. It also helps if the origins are good. I mainly like them that way so the hands seem to fit the weapon better and it just looks more natural imo.

What i was asking about is it the same with hl1 dod, is about the v model being rendered in a different fov.

Originally posted by IceWolve
I mainly like them that way so the hands seem to fit the weapon better and it just looks more natural imo.

Originally posted by IceWolve
I actualy like the 90 degree one ... it just seems more realistic at what the rifle would look like if you were to hold it yourself imo.

Trust me, an M1 looks nothing like that picture when you hold one yourself. That's about as unnatural looking as it gets. I'll repeat what Wile E said because it's the truth: It's only what you're used to from the HL era of mods, and nothing like what a real firearm looks like in your hands. To have a perspective like that on a rifle whose length terminates 30 inches from your face, you'd have to be on some serious drugs or be looking through a coke bottle or something.

90 FOV is reminiscent of weapons from MOH, COD, and other games. They look like poop compared to DODS' weapons. Long and thin enough to stab and kill someone with the end of the barrel.

Originally posted by FBOTheLiuetenant
Thats what grinds my gears the people in most FPSs tend to hold thier guns as far to the right(or left) as possible.

It's because the gun is supposed to be "shouldered", which is hard to depict in a game. I'd rather have them look shouldered than have them coming out of my gut or crotch like in some games.

I just don't like that the animators just had to make it so reloading or drawing a weapon makes you so you can't see.

Because when I c0ck a handgun, I do it right in front my face. :( (http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/7181/range00046tw.jpg)

(Heh, just thought I'd mention that while we're complaining about weapon models.)

Anyway, it's too bad that the weapons aren't rendered in the same plane as everything else. The way it looks aside, it's always really hard to tell if your gun is sticking out, where it actually is in the game-world, etc.... One day!

Yeah I know that it is supposed to simulate it being shouldered, but the angle that most guns are held at in games makes them look further out than a shoulder would be, there are alot of custom models for CS:S that have altered origins and they look much better because atleast in my case appears closer to where my shoulder would "be" ingame

example 1 (http://www.counter-strike-dl.com/download-1019.html)

the same goes for pistols

another example (http://www.counter-strike-dl.com/download-1029.html)

I was looking for a command to change the FOV but the "FOV <value>" doesnt seem to work.
But then I tried here, and as search result I saw this thread.

I would like to say that I really like the FOV as in 1.3 to me that felt much more realistic!
I don't know if it is or not but it just felt that way.
And I'm not that pleased with this FOV like it is now.

When in the Model viewer, I often set the FOV to 90 then it looks quite good and then shift the model a bit more to the center and voila it looks much and much better.
It just looks more realistic!

So I think valve aint gonna do nothing about this so I'd like to know in which way can I change this myself.

The most important thing is to get FOV to work cause like I said the "FOV" command just doesnt to anything.

I think there is a seperate console command to set the view_model FOV, either that or I'm thinking its hardcoded into the SDK somewhere. I know I was playing around with it in HaJ at one time.

The is only one REAL way to give people a realistic view. GET RID OF THE V MODEL STUFF ENTIRLY!

Instead, put 2 cameras in the ACTUAL EYES OF THE PLAYER MODEL! and have the 2 views blend together as if you are looking through one. Then, just animation the player models well. And we will have a more realistic view of the weapons and world.

Ok let's make this visible.

What you think of this.
First I think the iron sight can also be more dynamic so you can see it move a bit more from left to right and also see the "crosshair" at the end of the gun swinging a bit more so it looks a bit less static.

I know that the default fov should be realistic cause the weapons are hold to the shoulder but it just doesn't feel right.

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/6690/dodsweaponview1defaultzr7.jpg

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/6016/dodsweaponview1prefxx8.jpg

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/8809/dodsweaponview1ironph0.jpg

i dont see why valve focuses on make the weapons look so realistic, especialy when they dont even TRY to make them act and shoot realisticly....

Originally posted by IceWolve
i dont see why valve focuses on make the weapons look so realistic, especialy when they dont even TRY to make them act and shoot realisticly....

Nice try, troll. :mod:

Anyway, just out of interest - the 54 degree FOV on weapon models is such as to mimic as closely the FOV of the human eye when looking at something straight ahead. However, if the world were rendered as such you'd get the feeling of tunnel vision and likely get motion sick. Thats why the world is rendered at 90 degrees of FOV to try an mimic your peripheral vision.

Originally posted by Trp. Jed
Nice try, troll. :mod:

Anyway, just out of interest - the 54 degree FOV on weapon models is such as to mimic as closely the FOV of the human eye when looking at something straight ahead. However, if the world were rendered as such you'd get the feeling of tunnel vision and likely get motion sick. Thats why the world is rendered at 90 degrees of FOV to try an mimic your peripheral vision.
Well that could be true but I have played other games and where the angle was different so more then 54 it just felt more realisic and played much better!
I don't give a whatever on a theory, games just don't reflect the real world so you just have to make it like the most player would like it to be, if you know what i mean.

I feel like I have a gun in pushed in front of my face the whole time and this might be because of the players have the weapons to the shoulder you don't really have that in mind when you play and so you think something is wrong.

If it doesn't get a wider angle it just need to be further off the view.
And also with ironsight, to me it also doesn't feel right with the garand for example.
And ofcourse it does look that way in for real but it just doesn't quite work for me at least.

hmmm, thats strange, dod1234, i always thought the m1carbine looked a bit toyish in dods. now cod2's m1carbine, that is one sexy gun.

Originally posted by Element Zeero
I don't see what is wrong with the weapon model, it looks fine to me. Maybe you have a problem understanding the geometry of 3d objects in different points of view...

seems a lot of people have this problem. not just perceptions either. but complete misrepresenation of proportions.

i wish more people were competent in spatialiaty. this is what einstein must have felt when trying to discuss mathematics with the average person. not that i'm a genius in this area, it's just that everyone else is so backwards.

You have to realise its hard to give the correct view for most people as they mostly playon a 4:3 monitor, if the view was done with widescreen in mind, i think it would turn out much better. I have played it in a window with widescreen resolution but that doesnt help since ti just wideneds the world view :x

After this is just a game, why do they alter the gameplay for the sake of gameplay and teamplay but try so hard just to get the view right :P i think they need to work on it more, it just doesnt seem right, not with the hands at least, the hands look like they are bigger than the gun in the fps view than it does in the third. The need to stop using these default cameras and come up with new ones.

I still say the dod:s hands look awfully <3<3<3<3<3<3ed and stubby but the weapon's (garand) POV itself looks pretty damn close to this picture/
http://www.sourceblog.org/splinter/POV.jpg

That is pretty damn close.

Originally posted by cruzaderazn
That is pretty damn close.
Yes but we know that already but it just doesn't work that good ingame.

Originally posted by Splinter
I still say the dod:s hands look awfully <3<3<3<3<3<3ed and stubby but the weapon's (garand) POV itself looks pretty damn close to this picture/

Yeah, I always thought the weapons looked pretty good, but the hands seriously need some work from the 1st person pov.

Originally posted by Splinter
I still say the dod:s hands look awfully <3<3<3<3<3<3ed and stubby but the weapon's (garand) POV itself looks pretty damn close to this picture/
Splendid example, ftw!

The gun looks pretty close but doesnt match it with the perspective right. look at all the parts like the reciever and stuff :P the picture looks better, it actualy has a sense of length imo than the game.

I think it has to do with the thumb part. In the pic you can tell where the hand is actualy at and ends on the gun, while ingame, it loos like it is under the entire part before the oval piece.

This is also all done with 1 camera and viewpoint. Our eyes arent right on top of each other. I think that would make a different depending on where the gun is depending on where your eyes are position and looking too.

the thumb on the hand model in dods looks a bit weird. sort of like it'es angled too much towards the gun instead of away from it like you were holding it. probably why it looks stubby

I think that ppl are so used to the 90 fov that the more realistiv view throws 'em off.

But it is apparent that the hand model needs some work to look more natural.

I just found this image, it's from a HL2 total conversion mod "shootout".
This image shows how I personally looks better.
This shows more bits of the weapon (*well in a way, and this way you really think you are holding a weapon instead of a barrel.

* Although you almost see as much as in DOD, at least you don't see more of the back of the weapon and including the hand, but because of the fov?...it looks longer.

This weapon seems to be pointed a bit more upwards, then the DOD weapons.
And because of that it looks longer, and more realistic to me.

And oficially this looks like it looks for real but when I play I don't think about the fact that I am holding the gun close to my shoulder.

http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/mods/promo/334.jpg

LMFAO. ^^

Paging Wile E. to the thread. Paging Mr. Wile E. to the thread. :D

Originally posted by Trp. Jed
LMFAO. ^^

Paging Wile E. to the thread. Paging Mr. Wile E. to the thread. :D

:D

Whoever designed that map needs a pat on the back.

Originally posted by Ginger Lord
Whoever designed that map needs a pat on the back.

Pats Ginger Lord and crew.

Looks like MoH: Spearhead to me... :confused:

Ok, now I get it... :p

Originally posted by Trp. Jed
LMFAO. ^^

Paging Wile E. to the thread. Paging Mr. Wile E. to the thread. :D It took me a couple minutes, because I never knew the name of the mod we were working on. I just skinned what I was told to skin. :)

Totally off-subject, here's a much better look at that BAR



EDIT:
I just looked at the webpage. OMG please tell me they didn't go with those horrible player models I had the ill fortune to witness!

Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
OMG please tell me they didn't go with those horrible player models I had the ill fortune to witness!

Looks like it.

:(

because that's how wide they are. and it's not perspectives, don't ever let someone tell you that.

your vision is off, nothing is amiss with the model or the perspective. i don't understand why people try to rationalize it by guessing at what causes it. instead of that, question the original poster's vision

The day of defeat:source weapon fovs are just like that. Look a bit short and fat, compared to how it appears in counter-strike source.

There's another thread with this image
http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/4126/dodflash0133ui8.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9408/csoffice0032fs5.jpg

Yeah, personally I prefer how it looks in CSS or at 90 FOV. This issue is just a question of preference.

Originally posted by Deceiver
Yeah, personally I prefer how it looks in CSS or at 90 FOV. It's but a question of tastes.

same

It would be great if there was a value in-game to switch between 54 and 90 FOV. There is one for world fov (with sv_cheat though), but none for the view models.

I still stand by what Wile said on page one:Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
You are correct.
And if anyone is not sure just how utterly STUPID (or if they have forgotten) weapons look at the default 90 FOV, you can just look for yourself in the Valve SDK modelviewer. Down in the left corner of the "render" tab is a block to change the FOV.

But I'll save you the trouble, and show you all what it looks like ;)

Why some of you want the guns to look like needles is beyond me.