This is the second beta release of dod_ludendorff, the bridge at Remagen.

Download ( 9Mb zip-file ):
http://www.langal.dk/gl/html/news/ludendorff/dod_ludendorff_b2.zip

Screenshots:
http://www.langal.dk/-ekstern/dod_ludendorff/ss/b2/

Changelog for dod_ludendorff_b2
- 32 spawn points
- 2 player cap for your 1th, 2nd and 3th flag, 1 player cap for 4th and 5th
- Increased cap area for towers
- Closed off windows from Towers to spawn area
- Allies can't enter Axis spawn area
- Fall damage if you jump from bridge into water
- Redone allies and axis spawn area, redone service tunnel now with 2 sheds, added sandbags at bridge piers, fog start closer to player
- Performance tuned map ( We could use some help from you guys on this one )

In general we have made it harder for snipers and easier to full cap. Harder to defend and easier to attack.
We hope these initiatives will move the gameplay in the right direction.

Thanks guys for the brilliant feedback for beta 1.
http://dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=63033
You were making dod_ludendorff better by every feedback you gave us. So keep them coming for beta 2.

MadMilo and Hintzmann
http://www.langal.dk

w00t, was just playinbg beta 1 and was gettin pissed at spawning and dieing from damn spawncampers when I was a allie. Good work on beta 2, hope its fun.

Thanks for your hard work, fellas! This is an exciting map for sure.

I'll give this a run on our server tonight at 7pm Eastern, so that people who are interested know when and where it'll be played so they can check it out.



8.9.3.197:27015 -|UPA|- Competitive Teamplay 100 Tickrate

Uploaded to [SAS] :D

Thanks for the update, Hintzmann. Cool map!!!



Download mirror: http://www.landofozz.net/pafiledb/pafiledb.php?action=download&id=293



--Ozz

Looks like a sweet map for the Garand...I'll keep an eye out for servers running this map

Thanks for the visit tonight guys, have to say I didnt have a big prob with the map in b1 form but we did see a lot more full caps tonight with b2.

I think the fact that the snipers have to pay in health to go on the bridge makes it a less attractive option so brings them down into the play a bit more.

All round a big hit on our servers and hearing "Go on and run, you yellow bellies" echoing across the fog was a special moment.

You should have stuck around for crossfire cos ludendorff got voted back on after that.

Three things:

1. People are going to use the super structure whether it hurts their health or not. I never snipe and I like to use the super structure to get around sometimes. It's a valid part of the map, people shouldn't be punished for going to part of the map. Either clip it off completely (wouldn't be fun) or remove the health deduction. I know you want to encourage capping and not camping, but this isn't the way to do it. All players take a health hit on the super structure because you want to keep snipers off of their, I hate that.

2. I really, really, really hate the health deduction from jumping off the bridge into the water. Jumping off the bridge to use the water to get to the 2nd and 4th flag caps is a valid tactic, and again we're being punished for it. If you don't want us to do that, then remove the ladders leading up from the water (again, that wouldn't be fun) but don't deduct health from us. I think fighting against the current is a strong enough penalty for using the water, don't need my health to drop on top of that. As it is, if I'm on by myself or with a few buddies, we can't even jump off the super structure into the water for fun anymore, because those 2 health deductions will kill us. Where's the fun in that?

This map felt more huge and expansive in b1 because even though it was a simple bridge, the super structure and water added to the playing field. It feels like you're limiting our possibilities and thats not fun.

3. Make the only flag thats not capped at the beginning of a match the middle one, so everyone rushes there rather than getting held up on the second and fourth flag caps.

much improved, although I was very surprised to see that although you took out the snipers windows facing in toward spawn, you did nothing for the top of the towers, which pretty much makes taking out the windows useless.

http://usera.imagecave.com/WileECoyote/dod_ludendorff_b20000.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/WileECoyote/dod_ludendorff_b20001.jpg

This really, really needs to be addressed.

I disagree about the roof access for spawn camping: The difference is that people can hide if they're shooting from the windows, but they're much easier to see when they're on the roof. I don't think it needs to be changed.

I also STRONGLY agree with Def's ideas. I don't like the fall damage, and by having all the flags capped except the middle would get people moving in that direction. I also feel that the center is still better off as a single cap, but changing the 2nd flags into 2-cappers was great. Even if you take Def's advice and cap the 2nd flags to begin with, it'll still take 2 players to re-cap it if the enemy claims it, which is really all that matters.

And don't forget about the sandbar to mirror the barge in the water, which one of my guys suggested for beta1.

Everything else I feel has been commented on our Maptest Feedback on the forums, so please let me know if you'd like me to elaborate further on anything.

Ok I just played this on our full 32 person server and found a few more things.

The first and most major is the steam that comes out from under the middle flag. I don't know what triggers it, but I know it's beyond annoying. I read some where that players hate being killed by the map itself, and that is so true. With that death steam you can't drop down into the tunnel to kill whoever's capping. This is probably what you wanted, but can't imagine why. I saw more suicides on this map than I have ever seen anywhere else. It was a combination of the superstructure, water jumping and steam. These things are just plain killers and annoying.

I also noticed I get about 20 fps at the middle flag, don't know if this can be addressed or if it's just the nature of the huge map.

The last thing is: I realy like this map. It's loads of fun. Just please take out all these things that are killing players.

*EDIT* on our 32 player server, about half-ish crashed to desktop when this map was loaded up, either right after it was loaded up or after running for a couple seconds and getting onto the bridge. Once they rejoined things ran fine for them. Not sure whats causing this problem.

Yeh I agree about the water damage being a negative, I can understand the bridge one and it does seem to help IMO

I like the idea of having just the middle flag neutral but I think it should be a 2 man then. I can see this would concentrate the battle better.

About not changing the top of the towers. I guess we kind of agree with Bocasean on this one. We have redesign both spawn areas to gain cover, and hope that will do. And like Bocasean says, snipers on top of the towers, are fairly easy to spot and take out for a rifle, MG or sniper. Besides after we have incorporate the two towers in the first flag capzone, we hope it will be more attractive too go for a fullcap rather than spawn killing from top of the towers.

We have considered to make a warning system that plays a voicecommand in spawn, when ever an enemy is located on top of one of the two towers. Colster from SAS came up with this idea for beta 1. FuzzDad have made a similar system for dod_anvil, where you can here a bird or a crow when you are near the enemies first flag. Is this a good idea for dod_ludendorff too?

About the damage taken when jumping from towers to superstructure. We have considered only to punish snipers for making this jump, but then again, where is the logic in that? We don't want to kill the fun that's for sure, but we really hate snipers to prone "in the sky", free of any worries. Last night I managed (as a support standing on the bridge) to take out several snipers on the superstructure. My belief is that this indicates improvement of the gameplay.

After some more play testing we vill review the options regarding falldamage, including jumps from bridge into water. We really would love some more thoughts about this issue from you chaps!!!

Having just the middle flag neutral is a brilliant idea, and we promise here by to incorporate it.

About the clients crashing... we have absolute no clue :-(
Let's all keep a close eye on this.

We won’t forget about something to mirror the barge in the water. But we can't promise you, that a sandbar is our favourite solution. We will think something out.

Theozzmancometh, thanks for putting up a download mirror.

Thank you all for great feedback!
Keep it comming.
;-)

Well, after sifting through the dogsector forum, I found the quote where I think on page 9 TheSurgeon said he was going to completely remove snipers and mg's from the map editing the config.. so I guess if you wanted to manually limit the sniper class (as I suggested in the b1 thread) that's how you'd do it. If any mappers out there know more about the specifics of this please speak up. Anyway I look at the superstructure this way, once you know a sniper is up there you can:
A. Learn from it and expect him to be there, shoot him from the bridge.
B. Travel underneath the bridge so the sniper can't get you.
C. Try to swim.
D. Get on the superstructure yourself and go after thim that way, he's probably watching the bridge and not the structure.

Honestly if a sniper can just go prone and pick people off without them learning from the past, maybe he deserves to pick them off.
I think you could be suprised just how efficiently shooting at the prone sniper can be. He has very little room on that structure to maneuver, it's easy to for him to fall to his death while trying to avoid your bullets.

Anyway it's 4 am so I'll try to sort out my thoughts and get to the point. Even if you took out snipers completely and made it so 90% of health was lost upon landing on the superstructure, people wiould still go up there, go prone and snipe with their normal rifle. I honestly think it's for the best to just eliminate fall damage and look into limiting the class through the map.

When dod_risk was released the maker asked that rifles be excluded from the map (as well as snipers and mg's), we set up a cfg to make it so to comply with his wishes and it works a treat.

I would like to think every server op can manage this but I really dont find snipers that much of a problem in this map.

We limit snipers and mg's anyway tho as we have always tried to promote more team based play with flags a priority over kills.

Like def says you can win and travel the length of this map thru two routes without touching the surface road of the bridge.

Although I still like the multi level combat this map has so much I am all for leaving the bridge as is, I got up there last night to clear out two snipers off there, again like def says they're not expecting it so easy pickings but then I laid up for a bit to see what I could see and I have to say I was a passive spectator for a bit.
The view from up there while watching firefights below is amazing.

I am currently working on a one weapon mod for dod:s where all players have the same loadout, good for pistols/knifes only etc


I'd imagine a full server on this with pistols only would be interesting ;)

Just got back from playing my first round of this map and I just want to thank you guys for creating such an interesting immersive and fun map to play. I used a Garand in this map, not my weapon of choice but one I want to get better at. It was quite a moment to shoot at a player running across the top of the superstucture and watch him ragdoll across the sky. Overall everyone on the server was having a great time. No camping on the towers, smg and support action under the bridge, and rifles moving across the top. The games ended up fairly evenly before I left the server so that's a tribute to the balance of the map.
The only challenge people faced at times was the capping of some flags due to the multilevel cap zones. Still not a major issue and one that just requires some adaptive strategy.
Congrats again on producing a great map

just tried to join this map on the IGO servers; immediately crashed my computer. This is the first crash ever I have had with DOD:S. Not sure what caused it.

But it doesn't crash when I creat my own server, just when I try to join one over the internet.

Thanks Scooby, we are glad that you like the map.

Wile E Coyote we are sorry to here about the crash.
We have found a box at the Axis tunnel, which is half buried in a displacement, where it continously is jumping up and down... maybe this is the reason for the crash.
We will fix it to b3.

this is a great 'bridge map' in fact it is a good map period
the water current can be eased up though... hard to swim across..

I played this version of the map last night for an hour or so and I have some comments about it:

1. GREAT MAP!!!! I really like it (and the whole server agreed I think).

2. I did not understand why you added the tin constructions (lower bridge level) around the ladders leading down to the 2nd flags (both sides).
They really allow oposite side players to camp the "doors". Crates lying around seemed enough.

3. Please make bigger openings around all the ladders. Like that it is really easy to get stuck if you are in a rush. Also the doors leading from the towers to the lower level of the bridge seem a bit small as well.

4.The capping of the 1rst flags while inside the towers seems nice, but i think that the timer should be a bit slower in order to give a chance for the oposite side to defend (since you cant see the capper you need to search as well and you dont have any time for that).

5. It was the first time ever that i saw people in a public server using the chat to organise flag capturings. Very nice. Leave the flags as 2 person (re)cappings.

6. Thank you for the map that is now my favorite in DOD:S

I did not understand why you added the tin constructions (lower bridge level) around the ladders leading down to the 2nd flags (both sides).

They were added, wisely, to lessen the tactical advantage of camping MGs and Snipers in the under area. I feel that they are great additions, and from what I've heard from everyone else who's tested it on our end, it's universally applauded. Adding the rooms ruins the long-range line of sight, requiring more movement from players, instead of just blanket camping.

okay it's not crashing my computer now, must have been a glitchy thing. one thing I have surely noticed it when I go inside the towers where the spiral staicases are, my screen turns into a slideshow momentarily. Other than that i'm liking it very much.

BulletFilledVest, have you ever crossed the Rhine wearing wet heavy boots? LOL
We have from the very beginning decided that it should be extremely hart to cross the river, and only narrowly possible.

Wile E Coyote, we are just these days optimizing the four towers. Hopefully this will take care of your sad slideshow experience at the stairway.

Bigger openings around all the ladders, Joi. We agree that you may have a point there. It have now be taken into consideration.

Bocasean, you are 100% right about our motives for building these two sheds, and a free bonus was the possibility for further optimization (= more FPS).

Ones again Hintzmann and I want to thank all you great people for spending the time posting us fantastic feedback. Because of you, we will never stop mapping for Day of Defeat.
;-)

Keep it coming guys!

Hammering 24/7.
Here some new screens from our work on b3. (http://langal.dk/-ekstern/dod_ludendorff/ss/b210/)

Where did you get the Sherman Firefly model that is in allied spawn? That's not a stock model, is it?

Originally posted by madmilo
Hammering 24/7.
Here some new screens from our work on b3. (http://langal.dk/-ekstern/dod_ludendorff/ss/b210/) Wow. I agree with all additions/changes you made in those screenshots :)

Dradz: The Sherman tank is a stock model that came with dod_kalt, so sadly it has snow on it.
You can se it here:
http://steampowered.com/Steam/Marketing/January20.2006/img/Kalt_06.jpg
I hope a non-snow sherman tank will be released, soon.

Wile E Coyote: Thanks. Our hope is that these changes will give the map a better flow. We have worked hard on Friesenhahn's tower, so now we need to dublicate the changes to the other three towers. And change the interior to a control point tower, a stock tower and a tower as living quarters for the german soldiers.

We are still working hard on the map, and we will release some screenshots, when we have some interesting news.

Here are my suggestions and criticims about the map. I don't know how far you guys are into b3 but , i've played this map on a handfull of servers already with all differetn types of player numbers and play styles. Other than this keep it up this could end up being an amazing map.

1.First thing is that the map has a ton of barren places that never get used for anything, battle, camp spots, not one thing, do away with these spots They are point less. Keep focus on the bridge.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v344/smashingpunk007/emptyspace2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v344/smashingpunk007/emptyspace3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v344/smashingpunk007/emptyspace.jpg
You don't even need the beach anymore, if someone wants to take the river, they can jump down from the 2nd flag.

2. Make the towers the spawn points and move the first flag a little past the carts infront of the towers. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v344/smashingpunk007/newspawn1.jpgPut sandbags with exit ramps or whatever to keep each other out of one anothers towers/spawn points.



3.Get rid of the tight spiral staircases they do not fit into dod:s,http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v344/smashingpunk007/stairs.jpg use a ladder or make it spiral around the cirumference of the building. Quick diagram, black is tower, red is current stairs, yellow is what i am suggesting.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v344/smashingpunk007/ludenstairs.jpg

Originally posted by Hintzmann
Dradz: The Sherman tank is a stock model that came with dod_kalt, so sadly it has snow on it.
I hope a non-snow sherman tank will be released, soon.


Thanks, Hintz -- I didn't really notice the snow on it in your map == so I thought it was a custom or differnet skin.

Sorry smashingpunk, but I fully disagree with numbers 1 and 2 of your 3 suggestions. The areas you show in the picture aren't used very often, but they are essential to the overall look of the map AND as flanking positions. Many times, I will use the exact areas that you've pictured BECAUSE I'm less likely to run into someone when I'm running through there, which gives me a better chance to reach the last flags. I'll jump into the water, move up the beach, and flank around behind the opposition's first flag.

The spawn locations are perfect as they are, as are the "empty" approach routes under the bridge towers. I do agree that the spiral staircase is difficult for many players to use, but that has been fixed in b3, so it's no longer an issue.

Originally posted by smashingpunk007
Here are my suggestions and criticims about the map..... Not trying to single anyone out or be super critical but I have to say I whole-heartedly think these are not very good suggestions at all and will not help the map optimization or gameplay in the slightest.

Spiral staircases have no place in DOD? ROFLAMO :D

MadMilo and I are still hammering 24/7.

Here some new screenshots from our work on b3.
http://langal.dk/-ekstern/dod_ludendorff/ss/b210_b224/

We are working on eye-candy and optimization.
In the middel of the bridge I have gone on my PC from 43 to 48.
We will soon within the next couple of weeks release the next beta release.