dod_churchyard is my first map ever, so be kind! :p

The map supports 32 players, but is recommended for ~20. It's fast paced, I've tried to slow it down a bit from past betas with more props. More might be added again.

There is spawn protection in the form of trigger hurts. So remember where you die unexpectedly ;)

Capture the flag, with 6 capture points, 2x2man caps.

dod_churchyard -> there is a church, a yard and a park. So the map is quite open and favors the rifles.
Please if you have any tips for optimizing the open areas, let me hear 'em.

As always, provide your constructive criticism :sheep:

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wow the lighting looks amazing! great job i'll check it out and have my clan upload it to their server to run

I just ran around this map by myself for a little bit and here is what I have to say:

-Remove all fire and their smoke for these reasons: 1. Performance boost and 2. I (and I believe most people) hate running into fire and having their health ebbed away. Its really annoying, and you have even more fire in this map than most. I say just get rid of it.

- The Cap around the Allied tree needs to be larger, as it is right now you can only cap it when you're at a certain side of the tree, it should be all around the tree. Also see if you can use the tree cap icon used in Dijon.

-Decrease cap times for Allies and Axis first flags.

-Some craters are clipped oddly and are hard to get out of.
-You can see through all the hedges. Is there a way to make it so that nothing will show through the hedges? This might increase performance.

-Most maps running around by myself i don't dip below 70 fps. In the most Open areas of this map by myself I can dip to about 48 ish, so I agree you're gonna need some more tricks to increase fps in open areas. I wish I was a mapper and could help you with that...

Anyway thats everything I got to say. Overall I really like it and hope it works out.

I get " This file contain invalid data "
when i run the installer :(

EDIT* re downloaded it and it worked fine. Nice map. Thanks.

I play tested this map and all I can say is that the layout work great. I agree optimisation is what would be needed to make it better. But the map is a great fun to play on it. A lot of action.

this is on rotation on the -*[TnP]*- (http://www.takenoprisoners.tk) dods source server

server.takenoprisonersclan.com:27035

:D

Excellent map mate, filled our server above quickly and stayed filled for a few extensions. It looks great, and was a whole lotta fun to play. I love the countryside combat with all the hedges and wee buildings etc.

Only gripe would be the "interesting" clipping at some points, makes throwing that nade a bit of a gamble sometimes;)

Gj though, we like.

Very nice, will add pimpage and mirro at LanmaniaX. Good Work!!

Nice looking map, MrGrubby!!! TY!!!!


Download mirror: http://www.landofozz.net/pafiledb/pafiledb.php?action=download&id=292

Nice looking map. I love the lighting!

Thanks for including an overview!
I have added it to our rotation.

There will be a playtest for our community at 6:30pm Eastern, in case anyone who hasn't played it yet would like a chance to do so:

8.9.5.30:27015 -|UPA|- Gaming Network

After playing this on a populated server, I'm convinced that being able to see through the hedges is eating up performance.

Also, having German's being able to snipe/mg from the church tower at both Allies spawn exit points is no fun at all.

Just been playing on UPA's server.
The gameplay is really nice...
lots of opportunities to flank and have tactics. The layout is just perfect,it play well,favors none of the teams.

Here are some observations that could make the map better I think:

-add another way in to the house on the allied spawn and another way out,Its just too hard to get out of it under fire and its a mess when 3 ppl are try to get out at the same time.

-make a nice blend for the road in the allied spawn.

-work a bit more with hints and viscuts/portals to enclose the map some more.I was getting 30 fps on the main field looking towards the church and some ppl were getting 18fps.

-use a higher hedge for the delimitation of your areas and add a few trees,place a solid green brush on the inside.It will help you on the optimisation process and might double your fps on these areas.

Thats all I could say for now...
Ill play a bit more alone on it and might add some more comments.

Really nice map,looking forward to it :)

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Keep it coming :)


-Remove all fire and their smoke...
ground fog from arround the allies second has been removed, some of the fires have been removed, but I wont be removing all of them. The two big plumes of smoke provide some cover from the churchtower for people exiting spawn

- The Cap around the Allied tree needs to be larger,...
It was larger in earlier betas, but it was decided that the tree gave too much cover for an axis capping the flag.

-Decrease cap times for Allies and Axis first flags.
I thought that might be a problem, but I have been jumping from server to server and with 13vs13 am still seeing capouts

-Some craters are clipped oddly and are hard to get out of.
I agree, some need fixing. Some were made like that on purpose. Id like to know what others think. Is it too annoying?

-You can see through all the hedges. Is there a way to make it so that nothing will show through the hedges? This might increase performance.
use a higher hedge for the delimitation of your areas and add a few trees,place a solid green brush on the inside.It will help you on the optimisation process and might double your fps on these areas.
I have occluders in all the hedges, so props are not drawn, but it still draws brushes. In an earlier beta I had grass textured brushes in the bushes, but then mgs weren't able to shoot through them, which I would like to keep.
Is there anyway to block vis, but not bullets?

Only gripe would be the "interesting" clipping at some points, makes throwing that nade a bit of a gamble sometimes
Dont know what you mean... maybe in the spawn areas? Ive put bullet block brushes around the spawns, so you cant throw nades in there. Yes its weird when you try to throw a nade out of spaw, and see it bounce off the air, but it prevents spawn nading.

-add another way in to the house on the allied spawn
I was at the UPA play test, earlier tests were with less people. It was a problem getting out of ther esome times, I'll look at adding another exit, maybe between the house and the hedge.

-work a bit more with hints and viscuts/portals to e
It's so difficult with a big open map :(
I'm working on some fixes for this, but I would hate to change things in a big way. If you guys have tips for this, I;m all ears.
2 things Im working on, lowering the blown out section of the church, so the rafters are vis blocked more. And Closing up the sky box above the church, I wanted to be able to nade over top, but people dont do it much. Any idea how I can close it up with out having weird shadows on the clock face?

Yes its weird when you try to throw a nade out of spaw, and see it bounce off the air, but it prevents spawn nading

to resolve that problem, make the back and bottom sides of the brush no draw, then they could throw a grenade out, only keeping the opposing team from throwing nades in.

I've tried that and it didnt work :(
I think its all or none.

Originally posted by MrGrubby
Thanks for the feedback everyone! Keep it coming :)

ground fog from arround the allies second has been removed, some of the fires have been removed, but I wont be removing all of them. The two big plumes of smoke provide some cover from the churchtower for people exiting spawn

I have occluders in all the hedges, so props are not drawn, but it still draws brushes. In an earlier beta I had grass textured brushes in the bushes, but then mgs weren't able to shoot through them, which I would like to keep.
Is there anyway to block vis, but not bullets?

It's so difficult with a big open map :(
I'm working on some fixes for this, but I would hate to change things in a big way. If you guys have tips for this, I;m all ears.
2 things Im working on, lowering the blown out section of the church, so the rafters are vis blocked more. And Closing up the sky box above the church, I wanted to be able to nade over top, but people dont do it much. Any idea how I can close it up with out having weird shadows on the clock face?

-Reduce the flow of these smokes to maybe one sprite emission per second.
It should help a bit and most of the smoke sprites are useless,you get the idea with much less sprites and you can keep these.
Btw maybe add a wall nesxt to the door to provide some cover for a while just at the exit of the allies spawn.
Theres so much cover on the axis side and the allies cant just come out when theres an axis MG or sniper in the church tower.

-Yep Ive noticed the occluders which is a really good use.
You could always keep the hedges extremities semi-transparent/non blocked for MG's supprissive fire but hidding all that geometry should really help a lot in comparision of what it adds to the gameplay I dont think allowing the MG to fire blindly at a distant flag when he sees that its being capped is a good feature.People dont like to be killed from nowhere they can see.

-Check the fadedistance of your props in the main areas,most of the details could start fading at 800 and end a 1100 or so.

-About the vis,having you sky quite hight is not that much a big deal as long as leafs are cut correctly.
Place a huge hint plane thats just above the players head when he jumps,and the height of the hedges if you visblock them. It will sectorize your map well.Maybe add another hint plane about the half of the map height.
Check if you could add some more areaportals. (I havent checked if there were some yet)

you could also tweak a bit the ladder part of the church,it looks weird somehow. Maybe make a little room for the ladder...

I hope to see it even more interesting,this map has a real potential.

nice looking map, good gameply, but I seem to have lower fps on this map.

I must say that we enjoyed playing this map and it had good gameplay with the layout. Keep up the good work and we look forward to future releases. Going to put it in the rotation.

Reduce the flow of these smokes to maybe one sprite emission per second...
This unfortunately reduces the density and makes it even easier for a sniper or mg to see. I tried it this way and didn't see a noticable difference in FPS

Btw maybe add a wall nesxt to the door to provide some cover for a while just at the exit of the allies spawn...
The hedges next to the house have been opened up for b5 and you can now exit through the house, or next to it. The hedges provide some cover and spreads out the spawn exit some more.

Check the fadedistance of your props in the main areas,most of the details could start fading at 800 and end a 1100 or so.
I've changed some of the func_details to func_lods
have also played with draw distances on most props. This combined with a rebuild of the rear of the church has resulted in higher FPS.
When walking around alone onthe map, I get 70-90fps most of the time on b4, with the lowest areas dipping to the high 50's (Graveyard and back of park)
For b5, the oak-graveyard-park half of the map, I'm seeing 80-90fps, dipping to a low of 70-71.
With some changes I've gotten a good 15fps out of that half of the map.


As for snipers or mgs in the tower..
smoke, another sniper/rifle or a rifle nade and they are gone fairly quickly. I was playing on a server as allies where for some reason both our snipers felt they needed to work as a team up in the tower :rolleyes: I would laugh every time when I heard *DING!* *Aargh!* and look to see a single nade take them both out :D

PLEASE! Keep the feed back coming :)

Put the dead american prop model (found in dod_angriff_b1) next to the turned over jeep near allies spawn exit. I just think it'd be neat.

You can download the soldier models by Pedroleum here:

http://dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58640

:)

Adding dead soldier models to multiplayer maps adds to performance issues. Having all that smoke does at well. It also looks like you have some kind of dirt/dust deal going at the first allied left flag that causes problems as well. On a 20-person server even the best rig struggles to play the map above 20fps in a firefight. The single biggest problem you have right now is model count...the Source engine handles models in batches...and at multiple locations in the map the engine see's too many of them. Add player models and the map becomes a fps nightmare. Mapping is not all about looks...it's a combination of performance and looks and you must make sacrifices or realize that your "vision" will not appeal to a wide spectrum of players. That said...try this:

Try a version without all the fires, smoke, and fps-killers. Post it here as a test version...see what your feedback is. If you're still concerned the look isn't right then try other tricks to limit visibility like instead of using all those large hedge models use a rock wall occasionally so you can limit draw distance. Better yet...use displacement terrain as the base for the hedge by pushing it up (like they did in BiA) and place smaller (height-wise) hedge models on top...you can then place solid brushes underneath the displacment terrain that act as viz blockers...add a horizontal hint on the top and you really limit draw distance.

All those boxes next to the tank...number one...how did the tank get there? Number two...replace the boxes and the tank with a small rectory house...you can then use hints and portals aroudn the house to limit draw distance. The house coming from allied spawn to the left...you need to limit the ability of the engine to see from the spawn area into that field w/boxes and the tank...with players I'm at a way-too-low 30fps (P3.2, 6800 256MB)...close it off by pushing the door to the other side of the house and "S" turn the exit.

As far as layout...it favors the axis because:

1) They get to the church first and have better entrances to the church so it's almost always in their hands.
2) They have a sniper/MG window that can effectively block all movement to the front side of the church.
3) The left allied exit from spawn is a huge bottleneck, the right slightly less so but the axis have more open exits and they open to area's less full of camping positions.
4) The axis can spam-fire the left allied spawn exit effectively from dozens of concealed and covered locations
5) The entire axis side of the map is open and there's little cover yet the allied side is chock-full of stuff.
6) In three hours playing the map on both sides I capped out numerous times as axis but never as allied. Case in point...as allied I never made it the axis first flag...ever.

You have a map with some layout challenges, but gameplay is really fun...but it has staggering performance problems. There's a good map in here but you still need to find it.

As mentioned in earlier posts, I've addressed a lot of the FPS issues. It isn't going to be as fast as some maps, that is unfortunatley inherent to the openess of the map. But running around in a LAN I'm getting 25-35% increase in FPS in the open side of the map. Hopefully this makes people happier :)

Number two...replace the boxes and the tank with a small rectory house The layout here remains the same for now. The number of boxes has been cut in half, and I have been able to reduce their draw distance significantly but placing a brush with a tiled crate texture.

1) They get to the church first and have better entrances to the church so it's almost always in their hands. They do... but the allies get to the graveyard first, and have access to the church via the side window. If the allies control the grave yard, the axis lack an equivalent entrance.

3) The left allied exit from spawn is a huge bottleneck, the right slightly less so but the axis have more open exits and they open to area's less full of camping positions. Bottle neck has been fixed. I added the cover so allies with smgs have more cover agains the K98s. If there were no cover a few good axis riflemen could hold them off from way back. How would you propose I fix this?

6) In three hours playing the map on both sides I capped out numerous times as axis but never as allied. Case in point...as allied I never made it the axis first flag...ever. Since it has been released, I've jumped from server to server to get as much play time as possible and haven't seen this problem. I've seen both allies and axis dominate. Player skill and how they work as a team really come into play because of the number of flank opportunities there are.
If you have suggestions on how to fix what you see as a problem, I'm all ears. If neither team is very good, I can see that the axis would be more dominant. I've been on some allied teams that were just sucking the big one, myself and a few other players encouraged everyone to be more aggresive and get a push going. The map turned around within a minute or two.

_b5 is going to be out within a day or two. I'd like to take more of your advise and fit it in there.

Would closing off the barn (left of allies spawn area) help fps at all? Right now you can see into it but not go into it.

Originally posted by Defpotec
Would closing off the barn (left of allies spawn area) help fps at all? Right now you can see into it but not go into it. It would, and it's already closed up for b5. :)

Originally posted by ultranew_b
You can download the soldier models by Pedroleum here:

http://dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58640

:)


Yes!!!!!! a few of these would be some great final details!!!!