Sorry to spring this on you all at such short notice especially late on a sunday but im going to be busy for alot of this week and after the posative playtest of beta1 I wanted to get this map out in the open.

So here is it Beta2.

http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/Ardennes/Ardennespromo1.jpg
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/Ardennes/Ardennespromo2.jpg
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/Ardennes/Ardennespromo3.jpg
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/Ardennes/Ardennespromo4.jpg
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/Ardennes/Ardennespromo5.jpg
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/Ardennes/Ardennespromo6.jpg
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/Ardennes/Ardennespromo7.jpg
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/Ardennes/Ardennespromo8.jpg
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/Ardennes/Ardennespromo9.jpg
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/Ardennes/Ardennespromo10.jpg

Features to note,
Working 88's fire into the forest where the allies spawn
Allies on the table next to the sherman is a radio, this calls an airstrike on the town every 5 mins and is indicated ready by a green light.
Skybox hasnt been worked on too much hence the total lack of detail, fps should be pretty good for a big map.

anyway enjoy,

** GET IT HERE **
http://www.msportcam.co.uk/media/dod_ardennes_beta2.zip
Mirror 1
http://www.defeatsource.net/files/details.php?file=59 Provided by http://www.defeatsource.net/

** RES FILE HERE **
http://www.msportcam.co.uk/media/dod_ardennes_beta2.res

** NEXT VERSION PROGRESS **

FIXES / IMPROVEMENTS IN NEXT VERSION,

Lighting added / increased to some buildings,
HDR settings polished off,
Player clipping improved (cant get to areas I dont want you to),
Small fps increases (untill I add more detail!) ,
Church sandbags replaced with a jeep for cover,
x2 88's that were triggerable at 3 second intervals changed to 5 seconds,
Airstrike ready radio is now indicated active by an electrical radio noise rather than a green light (easier on fps),
Detail added to some buildings,

Sweet!

Love the pic of the 88 firing!

I've mirrored your Beta on Defeat Source (http://www.defeatsource.net).

Linky (http://www.defeatsource.net/files/details.php?file=59).

Buildings need more light inside of them! I shouldn't have to turn on my flashlight just to find my way around. Also something more natural then 4 sandbags would be nice for the church flag, maybe a vehicle of some sort, or debris for cover. Also on the far lef players start walking along side the outside the left wooden wall/fence, only to find you've clipped it halfway through.

I think the whole thing needs to be shortened. In a full server, all the fighting went on in the open field resulting in a stalemate.

Fun map, though.

Originally posted by Dark0ne
Love the pic of the 88 firing!
I've mirrored your Beta on Defeat Source (http://www.defeatsource.net).
Linky (http://www.defeatsource.net/files/details.php?file=59).

Thanks for the mirror my hosting is taking a bit of a bashing at the moment :(

Originally posted by Defpotec
Buildings need more light inside of them! I shouldn't have to turn on my flashlight just to find my way around.

Your right you shouldnt, I dont have a problem with any of the buildigs and I dont have my settings perticulaly bright but I will look at this on the next version, is it any perticular building?

Originally posted by Bombfactory
I think the whole thing needs to be shortened. In a full server, all the fighting went on in the open field resulting in a stalemate.
Fun map, though.


hhhmmm I wouldnt mind some more opinions on this as I thought that was a great part of the appeal, the big open forest / field area fighting.

The map was origionally designed for advancing spawns i.e. when the allies captured the 88's they spawned at the church and when the Axis had the church the spawned near the 88's but the input / ouputs for this arent there, if they are ever added it will be like this in future versions.

What does everyone think to the airstrikes?

Keep it coming lads :D

The buildings near the axis spawn stick out, and the second Allied flag building is especially dark.

As for map length, it's size is it's appeal, but it really does take a huge amount of time to get back to the frontlines after you've died, it's a very hard map to win. I can see no harm in shortening the map.

Also, this map just doesn't feel right as a cap the flag map, being Allies running through the forest, it practically screams to be an objective map. If/when the code for objective maps are released, I think one great objective would be to take out the other teams artillery/air support. Allies could plant satchels (or w/e) on the 88's, and Axis could destroy the radio. So the Axis could get to the radio, I'd suggest putting it in the building where the Allies 2nd flag is. You could even put the dead Allies soldier model (found in the Angriff map) inside the building next to the radio, to add some eye candy/aura.

Also the streets outside of the Axis spawn seem like a really cool place for some firefights, but the map is so large that not enough people will ever be there at one time.

One last thing, I've heard from players that they'd rather be on the recieving end of an airstrike every 5 minutes rather than a constant shelling by 88's. To even things out a bit, instead of using three 88's you might want to use 2 Nubelwaffers (sp?) (model found in the Panic map.) These fire about 6 rockets at a time. So give them a long reload time (but still less than 5 minutes) and the Airstike and Artillery even out.

I agree about the Nubelwaffers, 6 rockets coming in at a time,with random strike points used to cause panic on dod_escape for 1.3[I think that was maps name], but other than that, this map is now one of the most popular on my server.
Keep up the excellent work.

Originally posted by lordming
I agree about the Nubelwaffers, 6 rockets coming in at a time,with random strike points used to cause panic on dod_escape for 1.3[I think that was maps name], but other than that, this map is now one of the most popular on my server.
Keep up the excellent work.

Great to hear it, I am starting to sway to the idea of Nubelwaffers but cant seem to find any info on the models that are kicking about, optionally I could try and figure out a way to make the 88s usable for 1 minute at say 5 minute intervals

Originally posted by Defpotec
The buildings near the axis spawn stick out,

the second Allied flag building is especially dark

Also the streets outside of the Axis spawn seem like a really cool place for some firefights, but the map is so large that not enough people will ever be there at one time.



How do you mean stick out? as in look fake? the map is still in its very early stages in terms of detail, you only need to look at the fps to see detail playoff thats there atm.

I do know the farmhouse is the darkest room in the map, with HDR its fine but on LDR it is a bit dark, I will look at splashing some more natural light into there.

As for the streets back to my first response this should be possible if and when the I/O's are added to player spawns, but for now teamwork should help the fight move from area to area, on the Dodirectory server when playing this as allies we literally decided where we wanted to fight and pushed forward after a good few kills of the Axis.

anyway im not here for long so im going to look for the waffers ;)

As for the streets back to my first response this should be possible if and when the I/O's are added to player spawns
Hey does anybody know if there is a hint or intimation about Advancing Spawns in the future? I know we're pretty much guaranteed to have objectives soon..

I really need advancing spawns for my map!! Question: Is there a way to delay the initial allied spawn, to give the krauts time to set up a defensive? (a'la dod_schwetz)

Technically yes, the way my advanced spawns in Liberer worked and FD's instant action spawns worked were based on func_wall_toggles that were turned off by a trigger x ammount of seconds after a round spawn, so you could set one to 6 seconds to give the axis time to set up OR you could just have 16 advanced axis spawns that turn off after say 10 seconds.

what I havent found a way of doing is triggering them off flag caps in a way that is reliable and would work!

Forgive me, but I'm more confused now :) What's that about the timer?

Originally posted by Ol' Noodle Head
Forgive me, but I'm more confused now :) What's that about the timer?

You can set a func_wall_toggle to trigger on and off via a timer, so say roundstart - 30sec - toggle.

the thing being you put spawns at a foreward position with littke nodraw brushes touching them and tie them to func_wall_toggle as a spawn wont work if any part of it is touched by a brush. so tou have a wall set to start on at the normal spawn and a wall set to off at the foreward spawn and trigger them to toggle in x ammount of seconds and then the normal ones will be used and the foreward ones wont work.

wish I could explain things more clearly! this is why I dont write tutorials :p

http://www.msportcam.co.uk/media/dod_opo_liberer_rc3.zip

d/l my liberer map and decompile it with vmex, you will see how I set up the axis spawn.

Originally posted by [oap]Agent_S


How do you mean stick out? as in look fake? the map is still in its very early stages in terms of detail, you only need to look at the fps to see detail playoff thats there atm.

I do know the farmhouse is the darkest room in the map, with HDR its fine but on LDR it is a bit dark, I will look at splashing some more natural light into there.


Earlier I had said that some rooms seem to dark, and you asked which ones stick out, so thats what that meant. Those buildings "stuck out" to me as being too dark inside.

Also, on the {P.O.W} server we found that if you walk all the way to the upper right most corner of the Allies tree line coming out of spawn, you can walk behind the mine field (but not get back into the normal map) and then get boosted over the wall thats at the end of the mine field.

Great map, we had fun playing it.

I realise you don't have any points value set for holding flags, could those be added in the next release, please.

Originally posted by Defpotec
Earlier I had said that some rooms seem to dark, and you asked which ones stick out, so thats what that meant. Those buildings "stuck out" to me as being too dark inside.

Also, on the {P.O.W} server we found that if you walk all the way to the upper right most corner of the Allies tree line coming out of spawn, you can walk behind the mine field (but not get back into the normal map) and then get boosted over the wall thats at the end of the mine field.

Aahh ok im with you now will look at getting some extra light in there,

Thanks for the clipping info, that area your getting into was a possible 3rd route if that area became too choked but its been properly clipped off now.

The minefield is also not set yet, it was going to be a functioning minefield but I thought there is no problem with clipping the area off better.

Originally posted by CoolHand
Great map, we had fun playing it.

I realise you don't have any points value set for holding flags, could those be added in the next release, please.

thanks for that, its fixed now, silly mistake to make but never mind its done now.

The 88's have also been spread accross the entire forest, they can now land all the way out to the edge of the map, this should make hits a little more sparse in the middle.

I am reluctant to replace the 88's with nubelwaffers (sp) I was in a full map last night and the noise of all the shelling MG's and rifles gave an amasing atmosphere, then I realised the airstrike was recharged, a quick press and a wait and the whole map fell silent for about 10 seconds before it all fired up again. totally amasing.

This is a pretty nice Map.

Reminds me of BOB Episode 7 alot.

The fun thing about the airstrike is when playing and you hear the planes, everyone stops and runs inside.

In ventrilo you could hear people saying "aw damnit".

It's great.

Originally posted by Andy Whyberd
This is a pretty nice Map.

Reminds me of BOB Episode 7 alot.

Due to copyright reasons I play down the similaritys :D

yea I took my inspiration from that but shy'd off a complete remake after I couldnt find all the resources I wanted and I wouldnt want to attempt it and end up slaughtering it!

But for my next project I think it will also take inspiration from a BOB episode, but you will have to keep an eye out for that :p

A few updates on the next version which will probably be an RC,
Lighting added / increased to some buildings,
HDR settings polished off,
Player clipping improved (cant get to areas I dont want you to :) )
Small fps increases (untill I add more detail!)
Church sandbags replaced with a jeep for cover,

and a few more things.

Agent, I'd be curious to know how your optimization went, as I'm nearing "the breaking point" (har har) and will be alpha testing this weekend!

(seeing as we have a similar-ishly open map)

Originally posted by Ol' Noodle Head
Agent, I'd be curious to know how your optimization went, as I'm nearing "the breaking point" (har har) and will be alpha testing this weekend!

(seeing as we have a similar-ishly open map)

TBH alot of my optimisation has been done along the way, hence why ppl are getting 80fps even in the forest but 2 key tricks I found are the Z clip plane (4500) fog end (3500) fog start (500) this stops anything over 4500 being drawn but is ok as you cant see it dissapearing because of the fog.

the other thing was hint clipping vertically, i.e.


------------------------------ <hint clip
------------------------------ < hint clip
______|-|____________ <Ground

Ive still got alot of options with hint clipping but ive uploaded the latest vmf for you to look at
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/Ardennes/dod_ardennes_vmf.zip

fyi to everyone else all my work is open source so feel free to download and have a look.

Back to noodle, the rest of it is pretty much controlling the props like most of my props in buildings only need a view distance of 500-750, have a play and a look but ive still got alot of optimisation available should I need it.

[oap]Agent_S
open source
can i nick some of your buildings m8
or at least modify them a bit,
I HATE MAKING BUILDING

Looks nice. If my computer with dod:s on wasnt screwed id try it.

Originally posted by wickit
[oap]Agent_S
open source
can i nick some of your buildings m8
or at least modify them a bit,
I HATE MAKING BUILDING

Knock urself out :D

Originally posted by S i D
Looks nice. If my computer with dod:s on wasnt screwed id try it.

The looks still have a long way to go but as for playable I think its up there with the best but I'm biased :D

Thanks so much. I've been reading and reading Zombie's wonderful optimization page (http://www.student.kun.nl/rvanhoorn/Optimization.htm), and I can hardly believe it, but it's starting to make sense...Eagerly will be looking at the vmf. Thank you.

Ok well weve mullered my badwidth again :p

Incase you hadnt noticed the D/L links are gone so I am uploading to another of my websites and will replace the links soon.

**EDIT**

Links updated on first page, mirror 1 was and is still working.

Incase you cant be bothered to go to the first page :p here are the links

The map it's self,
http://www.msportcam.co.uk/media/dod_ardennes_beta2.zip

The res file,
http://www.msportcam.co.uk/media/dod_ardennes_beta2.res

Try using RapidShare to host your files. You can upload up to 100Mb files with no reg required and no limit on download bandwidth and best of all it's free.

http://rapidshare.de/

:)

Originally posted by ultranew_b
Try using RapidShare to host your files. You can upload up to 100Mb files with no reg required and no limit on download bandwidth and best of all it's free.

http://rapidshare.de/

:)

Aahh thanks for that, I was having a mosey for free hosting as I only have 10GB on my company space and dont want to end up paying for it, my usual dumpspace is 250mb a day so they got pretty narked when its been over 1GB per day since monday :D

Another bug fixed, 2 of the 88's were fireable every 3 seconds in stead of 5 after changes to the buttons, they are all now set to 5 second delays.

I just wanted to say thank you for this map. It's is a big hit on my server. The only thing is the box showdows for the Allies in the snow. Ok thank you again and love the map, as well as every one that plays on the server..

One thing, the 88's show up as ERROR models in Hammer...??

Originally posted by Ol' Noodle Head
One thing, the 88's show up as ERROR models in Hammer...??

Im using ransons old 88 model as I cant find the link for the newer ones, thats why you wont be able to see it, youll also be missing the custom textures like the mines sign and the iron cross, not to mention the huge error in the skybox :) thats the sky from DE_port the animated clouds are just a model!

Originally posted by LJFSP
I just wanted to say thank you for this map. It's is a big hit on my server. The only thing is the box showdows for the Allies in the snow. Ok thank you again and love the map, as well as every one that plays on the server..

Thanks for the support and im glad you all like it, the shadows have been confusing me as on most PC's they are green but I think you may have just hit it on the head! I think it may be that snow texture, I will try another but I didnt like the look of the others on the map.

It is soooo eerie that we both called that building the Farmhouse....when all they say in The Breaking Point is "the-building-with-the-caved-in-roof!"

Originally posted by Ol' Noodle Head
It is soooo eerie that we both called that building the Farmhouse....when all they say in The Breaking Point is "the-building-with-the-caved-in-roof!"

Didnt fit in :p

Yes, that is a mouthful. Hopefully soon I will have something to show YOU, but this is my vewwy first map and it all will depend on how well I learn from your use of horizontal HINTing. :D

By the way Agent, how long did it take you to fully compile?

Originally posted by Ol' Noodle Head

By the way Agent, how long did it take you to fully compile?

It was 16mins on a fast compile, I have never managed a full compile on any of my maps!

Its now 20mins as I have made the map square to add detail and hills in the middle distance.

What I call a fast compile is Normal, Fast VIS, Fast RAD

Dont forget my map is exceptionally large though, My Liberer map was 7-8mins on a fast compile but I couldnt even get that to full compile (got bored after 7 hours)

Interesting...I didn't know you could release a map that wasn't fully compiled. I'm going to ask another noobish question so I hope I'm forgiven for it :rolleyes: : What's the difference?

*waits for the sound of a thousand vet mappers slapping their foreheads*

Originally posted by Ol' Noodle Head
Interesting...I didn't know you could release a map that wasn't fully compiled. I'm going to ask another noobish question so I hope I'm forgiven for it :rolleyes: : What's the difference?

*waits for the sound of a thousand vet mappers slapping their foreheads*

LOL I fear they are busy chasing me with pich forks etc, I think there is a small FPS gain on a full compile but either im doing something wrong or it takes over 9 hours on small maps!

smallhill on full compile takes 30hrs
yes you heard right 30hrs
just the natuer of the layout causes this
im sure yours will take longer.

9hrs? 30hrs? That's nuts. Anvil full compile was 45 min. You have a mistake or something in the map causing that...especially for a map that's primarily open and not detailed. You need to break up the leafs w/hints...is your skybox massive?

Originally posted by FuzzDad
9hrs? 30hrs? That's nuts. Anvil full compile was 45 min. You have a mistake or something in the map causing that...especially for a map that's primarily open and not detailed. You need to break up the leafs w/hints...is your skybox massive?

Skybox is actually quite small, its not a big box. I have hint clipping vertically and horizontally where I can to make smaller leafs that contain brushes.

I still have alot of detaiiling to do and I have 2 overlapping brushes but I think I know where they are so im being a bit lazy I think atm, could they really add that much time to a compile?

Originally posted by FuzzDad
9hrs? 30hrs? That's nuts. Anvil full compile was 45 min. You have a mistake or something in the map causing that...especially for a map that's primarily open and not detailed. You need to break up the leafs w/hints...is your skybox massive?

Maybe I should have tried a full compile :p since my last 2 maps were much smaller and never completed a full compile I never tried on Ardennes and at the moment it takes about 40-50mins on a full compile so im now a happy camper and can see the Vis Leafs working much better.