In the current map I am working on there is an Axis HQ and outside I have hung 4 flags and made swastika textures to adorn them as I have seen in many pictures of that era.

Now I suddenly thought to day are these swastika's going to offend anyone if I include them in the map?

Should I just use a red texture as the symbol or do you think its acceptible to use swastika's?

Thanks for your thoughts

I think it is absolutely fine. I mean, it is history...we can't ignore it, and it is not like you are doing it to insult.

The reason that swastikas aren't in dod/dods are that they are illegal in Germany, I think.

You'll always find those that take offense by it. I couldn't care less, but there will be those (generally speaking those whose family has suffered first hand from the regime) that will feel uncomfortable at the very least.

It's your map, do as you want is the best advice I can give.

The only problem bud is the fact that German players wont be able to play the map if they are used.

Against German Law to have that kind of media in Germany.

I use custom flag sprites for my dod games. Usely best left to the individual users preferences I suppose.

Just my 2 cents. :)

Thanks for the input guys,

I'm going to replace the swastikas with the Iron cross type symbol (like the Axis cap flags)

The main reason is I suspected images like that werent allowed in Germany and I know we have a large contingent of German playes so I'd rather not alienate them :)

Thanks again guys and if anyone wants the texture let me know

Any chance of releasing the Nazi textures separately so those of us who would like that extra amount of realism can get them, while those who do not want swastikas/are bound by law not to have swastikas get the iron cross by default with the map?

Originally posted by S@bre
Any chance of releasing the Nazi textures separately so those of us who would like that extra amount of realism can get them, while those who do not want swastikas/are bound by law not to have swastikas get the iron cross by default with the map?

I did think about that but dont know how to implement it,,,, actually I think I just figured a way :)

Any server ops know if consistency would void this?

If I have the "censored" texture as standard but have a VMF by the same name that has the swastika can people just download it, reaplace it and play without the map differes or a consistency error?

Here are comparisons,,

(BELOW IS THE "CENSORED" VERSION)
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/censored.jpg

(THIS SHOT HAS A SWASTIKA PLEASE DO NOT CLICK IF YOU ARE OFFENDED)
http://www.jamesdon.plus.com/dod/noncensored.jpg

As long as it has the same filename, I believe so yeah.

Those swastikas look sick as hell. :)

Very impressive. I hope you can impliment them as well because they make pulling the trigger that much sweeter.

Those Iron crosses are not quite the same are they...
Couldn't you use that backwards swastika that's that religous symbol from africa? :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Spetsnaz420
Very impressive. I hope you can impliment them as well because they make pulling the trigger that much sweeter.
True that :carrot:

Is it perhaps possible to make the "Flags" a Model, and then have two different versions of the model, to distribute..

such as:

swatztika flag:

german-hq-flag-swatz.vmf

non:

german-hq-flag-cross.vmf

And then the file name the map uses being:

german-hq-flag.vmf

Then all a player has to do is delete the files they don't want and remove the -swatz or -cross from the model file name...

Best way would be to include the texture in the materials folder rather than in the .bsp and then you can just change the texture around for each version of the map.

This same question came up when I was skinning my Waffen-SS skins with Rascal for the Late-War skin pack

If you did not know already, I lived in Germany for 6 years and Rascal IS German. Rascal quite reliably informed that it was okay to go-ahead and put the CORRECT swastika emblem on the SS helmet, that it would not only be no problem for downloading in Germany BUT that it would also be okay to post on www.h2files.de, which he did. (.de means it is a German website)

I say go for historical accuracy and include them. I know I would. Valve can't, they absolutely have to make sure that their product is 100% percent marketable. We, on the other hand are not bound by that.

realsim is better imo. the setting is tasteful and innofensive.

Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
Rascal quite reliably informed that it was okay to go-ahead and put the CORRECT swastika emblem on the SS helmet, that it would not only be no problem for downloading in Germany BUT that it would also be okay to post on www.h2files.de, which he did. (.de means it is a German website)

Thing is I could still sue him for linking to something containing illegal nazi symbols. Chances are good that they'll drop the lawsuit due to insignificance. Doesn't make it legal tho.

Agent, go ahead, you won't run into problems and most german custom map sites will link it anyway. The moral aspect is up to you, IMHO people who'd feel offended by Swastikas probably don't play that game anyway.

Once again thanks to all for the input on this debate.

I am going to ship the map with the cross but have the swastika texture available for download for those who choose to, i.e. replace the vmf/vmt and there wont be an issue with servers.

I cant see why some people would be offended but I dont want to take the risk so thats why I am going to do it this way.

Im away for a week now so wont be able to reply to any Q's for a bit, again if anyone wants the texture just ask its 256x512.

Thanks again

Sorry to add so late to the discussion, but you shouldnt worry about offending people.

You have to be pretty ignorant to play a WW2 game & be offended by the site of a swastika hehe

The swastika means something different to many many people. I'd say keep it out.

The German Iron Cross is better.

:) you could ofcourse make a swastika with the far ends streching to the other side..

But seriously, I think the replacement vmf file would work fine yes. good idea.

Allright, not to divert too far from the topic, my personal opinion is anyone SOOO stupid, I mean sensitive, to be ofended by the sight of a swastika in a WW2 themed game would also quite likely be a person who believes that First Person Shooters are soley responsible for kids taking guns to school and shooting everyone made their lives a living hell, I mean acting out what they learned in a game.

In post-war Germany there was a darn good reason they banned the swastika - but in much more recent years most of those reasons are now in their 80's and 90's, and the laws, while still on the books, have become more a leftover of history than anything else to most of Germany. I know because I lived in Germany for 6 years.

In more recent times it is true that hate groups have adopted the use of the swastika, but that could hardly be convoluted into sayinf a WW2 game spreads a hate message.

Castle Wolfenstein had hundreds of swastikas in it - nobody complained

If you look at other WWII games, they use the symbol in a historically accurate setting, with it hanging on HQs much like in you map. I think the fact that this is used in a historical setting and is not in any way directed at anyone, i think it should be fine.

If your still afraid of the the risk, do the .vmf thing

Originally posted by Ca-Chicken-Soup
Those Iron crosses are not quite the same are they...
Couldn't you use that backwards swastika that's that religous symbol from africa? :rolleyes:

From India - It is an Ayran symbol going back thousands of years!

And it's also forbidden in Germany ;)

My Family is entirly German, both my Grandfathers were in the German army, one SS and one Vet of Russia. I am sure that noone will really, really make a big deal out of it. if it adds some sence of realism into you map, by all means, go ahead.