Okies...now that dod_kalt is coming out this week and there's a Sherman tank model in the build, dod_anvil is complete. Over the last month I've basically rebuilt most of the map's exteriors and limited my physics props to gain a nice 5-10% fps across the board from release candiate 2. Testing has also shown that more players like the traditional round start rather than the instant combat start so the map will return to it's roots.

One thing most of you will find is that from a flag perspective it's going to be asymmetrical...the allies can generall get to the mid cap faster than the germsn...but the germans can more readily defend their one and two flags. Testing has also shown this to be a equitable trade off given the general weapons impalance (germans = better). All in all it's been a 15 month effort and I cannot say how important the contributions of the CoJ team (lead by Shane and Headrancher) have been...they are my Captain.

Here's a few comparison shots from rc2 (left), in-progress changes (mid) and almost final (right). None of these pics are in HDR so w/HDR enabled expect a solid 20-30fps drop (at min...HDR sucks the life out of my PC) and as you can see I left out the objective icons so drop a fps or two to get real.

http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/3.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/4.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/5.jpg

Bonus shots:
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/dod_anvil1.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/dod_anvil2.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/dod_anvil3.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/dod_anvil4.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/dod_anvil5.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/dod_anvil6.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/dod_anvil7.jpg

Always great news :)

Indeed sir. Glad to hear it. Your final version of the map will be etched into the Tournament, too, so that everyone can enjoy some competition on it right away.

One of the most well-liked maps in Source, deservedly so.

Those comparative images are very impresive, you gained FPS and the places look better. You are the Optimize Master.
i like that the first flag of germans isnt the Tank, because always was a hell take that, with all Axis covered with the tank.

Pure Sweetness Sir!

Can't wait to play it for real... Maptests are past my bedtime :(

Originally posted by the
Those comparative images are very impresive, you gained FPS and the places look better. You are the Optimize Master.
i like that the first flag of germans isnt the Tank, because always was a hell take that, with all Axis covered with the tank.

Yea...i'm trying to get back to the original falaise in terms of objectives. Remember...perf is better on my machine but given that HL2-mods run differently on different machines and vid cards I can't claim you'll see my improvement. It *should* be better but only time will tell.

anyway you can not add the glass in windows? if you wanna crouch on the window ledge you have to waste ammo or switch to melee to break the glass (sound effect is great I agree), and bad luck means you get killed just as you're doing that...:rolleyes:

Look forward to the final release
why do I feel we might see a Sherman in that....

Originally posted by Defpotec
anyway you can not add the glass in windows? if you wanna crouch on the window ledge you have to waste ammo or switch to melee to break the glass (sound effect is great I agree), and bad luck means you get killed just as you're doing that...:rolleyes:

They break on touch now (Furyo reminded me how to make that happen).

Originally posted by FuzzDad
They break on touch now.

you are a god

Originally posted by FuzzDad
They break on touch now (Furyo reminded me how to make that happen).

Too bad there's not a slow-mo munction, that'd make for some awsome diving shots:D


I must say the map looks so nice on the last version the lighting is droolworthy I cannot wait to play this map agian it's just so... ahhh

Goodwork soldier you earn somesort of rank promotion.

I was hoping within myself that you'd leave the nerblewafer in as axis first...i really love that model!

Either way i cant wait!:D

Nice work FD.

You removed some of the "Fachwerkhaüser" (i have no idea in english what it is...): you know, the white houses with the timber construction. They were nice.

I guess you removed them for fps reasons?

If you're talking about the one on the left of the allies 2nd flag, then it is a 3d skybox model, that's been replaced by the landscape (made of displacements). I guess this is where most of the FPS gain was achieved.

Great work FD... when can we expect Anvil to become an official DoD:S map?


Originally posted by Pfarrer
You removed some of the "Fachwerkhaüser" (i have no idea in english what it is...): you know, the white houses with the timber construction. They were nice.


It´s half-timbered-house(s) - at least if I remember correctly. ;)

Originally posted by Furyo
If you're talking about the one on the left of the allies 2nd flag, then it is a 3d skybox model, that's been replaced by the landscape (made of displacements). I guess this is where most of the FPS gain was achieved.

Yes, that is one of them, but on this picture
http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/4.jpg

you can see one of the "fachwerkhaüser" changed into an ordinary house. It makes the map a bit more grey, so it seems.

I have enough of that one texture in the map to choke a horse...I wanted some contrast. Most of the fps gain was via stuff changed in the map itself...not the skybox. The *stuff* I did doesn't alter gameplay at all except for dropping the instant combat round start. I did that because despite my best efforts the choke at round start is still pretty high (not sure what that is actually) so it's best not to have combat until the choke figures die off (which they do in 2-3 sec).

That's a good reason, though i liked the texture.

Great work as always.


I only wish I could have participated more in the last few months but RL got in the way. I'm looking forward to playing this in it's final form, but every step of the way that I've seen as a WIP has still been great. Looking forward to your next map...whenever that's done.

Meanwhile, I grew accustomed to the original interior hotel design in DoD:G version, particularly they high angle shots to the back path to the Flak. I like how you can move from there to another high position in not too much time... in this map it's different but overall I think it's a great evolution.

Also, the map feels a bit tighter/smaller which I think is good. God enoughs I make long maps so I find Anvil refreshingly good in a familiar way.

See you on the server :-)

Originally posted by FuzzDad I did that because despite my best efforts the choke at round start is still pretty high (not sure what that is actually) so it's best not to have combat until the choke figures die off (which they do in 2-3 sec). I think that has something to do with the precache function in source. DoD:S loads a lot of sounds/models/materials etc. into memory and that takes a while. I hope we will see some optimizations here.

Any word on the CAL version? And you taking a break from mapping or is the next project already around the corner?

Anway good job with anvil and looking forward to the final version.

I understand the cache pre load but the material amount, model count, and other map-specific entity counts are not out of line w/the official maps (some have more, some less). I have less physics-enabled entities than most of the maps as well. I have less physics-enabled entities in the final version than I do in rc2. I also force the team selection screen background to switch to all the flag locations to load as much of that stuff pre-game as possible. I pushed the airplane flyovers to start on a triggered event that occurs well after round start...yet round-start choke is still high.

We tried a sv_cheat game w/skybox (airplanes) turned off and choke still piled up at round start. I think Anzio and a few others are like this as well. Pushing the spawns back to their respective normal locations helps a ton because by the time you get to a combat situation there's none of the start-up choke. I'm going to look at all my entities and compare them to some of the low-choke official maps to see if I have some incorrect flags set (on the entities themselves).

Now...the good news...you should get much less herky-jerk as you traverse the map on your first run-through. I've managed to place hints and portals in place to parcel out loading of models in a more sustained way (no herk) instead of tons of them at once (herk). FPS is better in most places but not all. Doors stay open after you open them. I use some sound events to clue you to your enemies behavior. I've tried to limit "sticky spots" but I can't do anything about the recent problems all maps have had with getting stuck on moels near displacement terrain (tank in Donner, tank in Anvil, etc). I've clipped the bejeasus out of the map so if you can get somewhere w/boost or by yourself it's probably because I'm allowing you to do so (there are special spots near axis & allied 1 flags you can get to that will give you an advantage)....plus a lot more *stuff*

I'm shooting for Saturday but knowing me it'll be Sunday.

glad to hear its almost done, ill put this in my servers rotation for sure, great work.

Fd, are you goin to be putting the sherman in?

Also id love to see the half track make an apperance, thats an awsome model!

*cough* NERBLWAFER*vough*

*cough* ;) *cough*

YAY a weekend release....:-)
Will add mirror of it's posted. :D

Originally posted by pedroleum
*cough* ;) *cough*

Got the icons...any chance at a green halftrack, tank and aa gun? I can be demanding...I know.

If removing the physics props, etc did not help with choke then why not add it back in?

Hope you plug the hell outta this release FD. I want to see this map on every server. I'll try to talk it up, wherever I go. :D

Originally posted by FuzzDad
Got the icons...any chance at a green halftrack, tank and aa gun? I can be demanding...I know.

you mean a snow-free skin for all of them?
actually, i was hoping for the devs to bring them out... i don't know what holds them. they must have made a snow-free version, i'm sure of that.

http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60311

That what you wanted FD?

If so YAY! ooh look theres even a nerblewafer icon :p

Damn 15 vs 15 on anvil makes me forget all the weapon issues and all other problems in my life.

Originally posted by pedroleum
you mean a snow-free skin for all of them?
actually, i was hoping for the devs to bring them out... i don't know what holds them. they must have made a snow-free version, i'm sure of that.

Yes...they do but it will be a while before they release them w/their next dod release. So...either I finish up the map as-is and leave in the models I have, wait for the next major release, or see if someone has a few green skins (or I can get the devs to release a few things early). I really don't want to wait for the next fix/content release and so it's either go with the map w/current model set or see if someone will cough up a few skins. No big deal really...the map will not play any differnetly w/current model set so I'm leaning towards that.

I'd say just release it with the snow models. People aren't going to mind that much, and it'll get changed eventually.

Originally posted by Defpotec
I'd say just release it with the snow models. People aren't going to mind that much, and it'll get changed eventually.

Unfortunately that's what a lot of mappers do...they compromise to expedite a release...and that's why 90% of the released custom maps are crap.

Or you could just beg Valve for the regular skins.

in which case Wes would have to increase the overall download size as those skins would be considered customs. And of course other mappers would use them off Anvil, and that shouldn't sit too well with Valve.

Valve needs to release a content update for us to have those skins. Whether it'll be with the next major update or as a separate download is the only question left imho

That would be a mistake too...you'd have official content being released ahead of time...the files in your folders would take precendent over the cached versions (when released) which could lead to all sorts of issues. It's just not a good idea. All for the want of a sherman tank...and in the end you really only notice that stuff the first few times you play the map...after that it's always "Allied 2" not "The Sherman".

So...Sunday release w/old models pending results of a playtest tonight.

Er...beg them to sneak a silent release over the Steam network. ;) They could just slap on an ambiguous changelog -- *Fixed name exploit, *Optimized server logging, or something like that. :D

Whatev, I was just looking forward to that Sherman. :(

Well...IF we can get them to drop the models into a release this week I'd delay...we are checking.

So Wes, are we gonna get a comparison pic between the start of the map and the finish =P

Well with all this global warming and such why not snow on a tank? Maybe it came from the north. Really very quickly. :tnp:

Nah I reckon just wait to make it perfect




*On a side note; whats with the two new smiles that don't work?

Originally posted by deceiver
So Wes, are we gonna get a comparison pic between the start of the map and the finish =P
Already have them on the first page...the "three-way" shots. ;)

so is it still due for today or tomorrow?

Fuzzdad - You gotta a tally on the amount of time spent on this map? Since this is remake of your Falaise - include that too. Oh - and by the way - hats off and 3 cheers for your efforts on this one. When do get to we see Glider?

Cheers.

Originally posted by mn9500
so is it still due for today or tomorrow?

Sunday unless we hear that Valve will cycle in the "missing" models from the Kalt release. Originally they were supposed to release OD Green (normal) versions of the Sherman tank and the Half-track. Both of them were slated for my map. We are asking some dev guys if it would be possible to add those models to the next Steam release...whenver and whatever that might be. If they say "Yes...and it'll <insert date here>" I'll delay the release until one day after that. If they have to wait until the next major DoD release (which could be longer) I'll release tomorrow.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
Already have them on the first page...the "three-way" shots. ;)

Agh! I meant pics of you haha.

lol
/insert balding man here

I know there's one kickin around...

Btw Wes, if you hear from them before I do, can you add to the list the mill_water_wheel.mdl skins? The only one we have is the frozen one of course.

Wow, final? Does that mean no more changes ever? What ever will you do with your time? :)

Originally posted by ratty
Wow, final? Does that mean no more changes ever? What ever will you do with your time? :)

Glider time!11!!
Nah, he must take a break from mapping; because work on a map for more than a year is an insanity. At least when he does it for free

I'm not sure I can release it today after all. The playtesting has been great...the map plays really well, it's pretty easy on your system, there are no major bugs except one...and she's a doozy.

On round start the map runs at VERY high "loss" and "choke" rates. I've checked everything and it's a bit baffling. I have less entities, less moving things, less faces, less sounds, less texture memory...more or less (lol) nothing in the map exceeds any of the official maps. For example, I have over 500 less solid entities and 550 less point entities, 2200 less solids, 12,000 less brush faces, and 45MB less texture memory than dod_kalt...yet on round start there's this large "loss" spike that kalt and all the other official maps do not have. It all calms down in a few seconds. Most official maps exceed or tie my map in terms of "choke" at round start...but none of them hit the heights I hit w/"loss" at round start. I will not release the map until I figure this out.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
On round start the map runs at VERY high "loss" and "choke" rates.

This is not caused by your map, its an engine issue they need to fix. Kalt does this to me alot and some others, but kalt/anzio/flash seem to be the worst.

i think that's because there are a lot of prop physic in your map that don't have the flag *start asleep". And at the round start, they move/fall on the ground all together.

Kalt and argentan also do this choke/loss on round start for me.
No other maps do though. I actually haven't experienced it in anvil myself.

Originally posted by Tidjey
i think that's because there are a lot of prop physic in your map that don't have the flag *start asleep". And at the round start, they move/fall on the ground all together.

Highly probable.

Originally posted by Tidjey
i think that's because there are a lot of prop physic in your map that don't have the flag *start asleep". And at the round start, they move/fall on the ground all together.

That makes sense, wouldn't the showbudget show this? There must be a way to log the budget spikes or something. Hope you figure it Fuzzdad this map's awsome:yar:

The weekend has passed, no map...*/cries

If you read the thread, he his waiting for a answer from the Dev team to know if they will make a non snow skin for new models like the Sherman tank. Other then this the map is ready and was tested this week-end.

Originally posted by CoolHand
If you read the thread, he his waiting for a answer from the Dev team to know if they will make a non snow skin for new models like the Sherman tank. Other then this the map is ready and was tested this week-end.

i also read he had some problems with huge fps drops at mapstart...

The *start asleep* is not the issue. I have many less models than those other maps and all official maps hit high choke figures on start. It's the loss I can't explain yet...but I think I'm close.

I believe the high choke is a direct result of cubemaps. No cubemaps and no choke...add in cube maps and you get choke at round start. More cubemaps and more choke on round start. There appears to be a direct corollation between the number of cubemaps in your map and the choke on round start. At least that's my theory and I'm sticking to it. :)

So...it's the "Loss" I'm more concerned with and I think I figured it out. Since I use these massive trigger hurts covering each spawn and they are tied to filters at round start every single spawn in the map is queried: "Are you a bad guy in this spawn?" That's how the trigger hurts work...ergo there's a large amount of communication client-to-server going on. As long as you remain in the spawn you get queried constantly as to your right to be in that spawn. So, to "fix" that I've redone the spawn hurts to just be a wall at the edges of the spawn but with 10,000,000 hurt value so it's instant death if you touch them. I'll have it up on a server to test either tonight or tomorrow and we'll see what we'll see.

That...and the devs are checking to see if they can release the skins via a Steam update this week...no promises but they said they would look into it.

Wes, couldn't those triggers be set to "ontouchstart"? That way you'd only have queries right when enemies enter the area, and not repeatedly. Same for friendlies as they spawn.

That might just fix it while still giving the desired effect of dying slowly.

Originally posted by Furyo
Wes, couldn't those triggers be set to "ontouchstart"? That way you'd only have queries right when enemies enter the area, and not repeatedly. Same for friendlies as they spawn.

That might just fix it while still giving the desired effect of dying slowly.

They can die like the pig spam-campers they are...fast and instantaneously w/out prejudice nor remorse.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
They can die like the pig spam-campers they are...fast and instantaneously w/out prejudice nor remorse.

HERE HERE

Originally posted by FuzzDad
They can die like the pig spam-campers they are...fast and instantaneously w/out prejudice nor remorse.

its kindof evil if you're new to a map ;)

Originally posted by pedroleum
its kindof evil if you're new to a map ;)

Actually...it's a clearly marked "line in the sand" and for every one or two people who get pissed off that they died trying to be a pig-scum sucker spawn camper I'll get thousands of "Thank you" and "Ahhh...nice spawn protection" comments. I consider that a fair trade.

If you remember back in the days we first started playing DoD the only spawn campers were either German team killers or Allies trying to get into the German spawn to kill them. There were hardly EVER any of the opposite (American TK). I recon that's because people hated Nazi Scum so it empowered them to whack Germans. It's different now. Now you see all sorts of putzes trying to camp in spawns to increase their K-D ratio. Since I cannot program in an auto-ban or auto-kick deal into the map the next best thing is to kill them hard, fast, and with no pity.

Put me in the "nice spawn protection" camp.
Being an anti-social <3<3<3<3tard should cost you. And if you have to keep touching the stove and getting burnt over and over again, well maybe one day you'll learn.

We love your hatred of spawn campers, bravo :yar:

Well, so far this week they've had three opportunities to release the Sherman textures -- the CS:S update, and the two beta Friends updates. Looks like it ain't happenin'.

Yes...it's not going to happen until the next DoD scheduled update comes so I'll release the map in a few hours pending a small test up on CoJ. It still has "loss" problems on round start and the music stuttersteps during the same but after a few seconds it dies back down and all's well afterwards. She then runs true and with pretty good fps all around.

yayz!!!

I'll release the map in a few hours

Just can`t wait until tonight, Daddy ! :p

I have a good version of the map ready to go. One more test on a non-CoJ server to get some additional independent feedback and I think it's ready. Sorry for the delays...I still have some herky-jerk to the start of each round but it smooths out really quickly and fps is not an issue on the map during gameplay given a average 8x8 or 10x10 match. There are 32 spawns but as with all Source games...more players = more problems.

On my rig (P4 3.2, 2GB, 256MB 6800 nVidia), without players, I average 70-99fps (maxfps set at 100) running from one end of the map to the other. I think I have an acceptable anti-spawn solution, most of the map is clipped so you cannot get on sections of the map I don't want you to go, all physics objects are placed in places you should not have trouble navigating around, there are only a few places you need to jump to get where you are going and by my contacts w/Valve I've found out it is the number one played custom (dod_Anvil_rc2) and the second most balanced map after Flash in terms of allied vs. axis. :)

And...I can't wait to dump this and start on something new.

:D sounds good maybe it'll be out this weekend.

wow that looks absolutely incredible from the screenies, i really didnt think you could improve this any more, but you clearly have.

we have Anvil RC2 in rotation as is and its a brilliant & popular map, the new version really looks like it should be an official map via Valve

really looking forward to seeing the tweaks.

NB we are the No 1 DOD Server according to Game Monitor :)

Come have a look :)


http://www.game-monitor.com/server-stat-image/195.62.10.69:27035.png (http://www.game-monitor.com/GameServer/195.62.10.69:27035/)

Congrats on the Number one slot, quint.. although I dunno how it ranks, our Server 4 is 10th but it only went online yesterday.


Any news on the release FD? We now have 2 source servers ready to run it :D

Originally posted by FuzzDad
And...I can't wait to dump this and start on something new.

Flügplatz ;) ;) j/k

I can't wait to get ahold of Anvil....mad I keep missing all the beta tests :(.

I thought I'd mention this before the final version gets properly released. I'm not sure if its been discussed though.

Fuzzdad, there seems to be a distinct lack of ambience in rc2. Its just unnaturally quiet. I'm not sure if you've done anything about this for the final, but could you consider at least adding the same looping sound of wind-through-the-trees like there is in Donner? It is just too quiet, much like going stopsound in 1.3.

Also, again I don't know if you've addressed this (there's a lot of threads on Anvil, I'm not going to read them all!), there seems to be ragdoll clipping problems at various points. Its mainly on sandbags around in the central building and sandbags near walls, and its also present around the Allied stairs up to the central building. The dead players just fall right through them.

Oh, and for some reason I can't change the map description at the team selection menu. I'm assuming that you've done it from within the map. Can I request you change it back to a text file that goes in the maps folder? I edit/create my map descriptions to a certain template (yes, I am sad), but rather frustratingly I can't change the Anvil one just by adding or changing a text file.

If you create your own dod_anvil_rc2.txt file with your own description it'll probably overrule the one embedded in the bsp.

The clipping is the clipping...I can;t do anything about that. I will say this though...there are enough changes in the final version that should keep clipping issues to a minimum...it's a much smoother map to play.

Released: http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61927