I know in the past I've converted CS maps to DoD but it's not like the map was ever going to be a DoD map and I don't believe the maps were going to be converted to DoD by the Valve Dev team. Statements were also made that content can be shared between mods, correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway ...

I've seen two posts in the Release forum, one for a port or lecave and one for a port of murky.

I don't know about Travis but I wasn't asked about this. I've also stated that I'm going to convert all my maps to DoD:S.

I know there's no legality or anything but as a community we have always respected this type of thing before but with the influx of other HL/HL2 Mod based community members coming in here, they obviously believe this sort of thing is acceptable ... don't they?

Well, not to me and especially when the mappers are actively converting their own maps from DoD to DoD:S.

See this list:
http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54955


No real flaming intended but I'm a bit shocked and insulted that I wasn't consulted about this and the poster thanked the guy that ported it and not me.

comments please ...

I can tell your pretty wound up and so would I be in the same situation, you should be flattered though that someone loved your map so much that they couldnt wait for it to be in DOD-S.

But your right, your permission should have been sought first and I think there is a general etiquette between mappers not to take over peoples maps etc, in this case I think the mapper is new and prob never read of your intention to port these maps and im sure pretty soon will realise his mistake and retract his intention.

Your probably right.

But I can guess that out of the 100 or so fourm readers that have already see the post, some have already downloaded it and it will soon be on some servers.

Not to sure where that leaves me as the original mapper ... but hay.

I just think a disscusion about it now so that new members know what's happing is required.

I'd definitely be pretty pissed, and the first thing I'd do is contact the guy who's made the port, politely and nicely, to ask him to either cancel his map or add you to the credits.

Is the map even as good as what you'd have done with it? You may not want to be associated with a pale rip off... in which case I'd leave it at that, make my own proper port and release it as the real thing.

I agree.

I wouldn't like to see my work ported without permission. In the end, it still YOUR intellectual property.

You can't actually do very much against this type of thing but to put it in the spotlight - like you did now - or contact the porter and ask him to put your name in the credits.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't stop porting your old maps. Just continue and give it your own style. Unless the copycat is worthy, you can probably do better than he did a job.

WHAT THE F*CK.

It would be good to asume I am outraged. WTF is goin on :E? where is this post :E?

okay saw the post and wtf its like OUTRAGE and like im just all like fkn outraged......

What the hell has the world come to when your ideas and names for those ideas are no longer sacred.

I know 2 things.

1) any good mapper has their own ideas
2) any good mapper has no need to steal others ideas and names

This is seriously unbelieveable. Okay given the map wasnt the greatest thing ever made - it was made in my original idea for it and in creating the gameplay i wanted it was a success. The quality of an idea can not be used to judge how much of an injustice it is to comitt the pure act of copying someone elses original work.

absolute disgrace.

Thats just stupid, anyone doing a port of someone elses map should ask permission beforehand...

For the record, if you want to protect your Source files from decompiling, Vmex creator Rof has made a protection available.

Go check his FAQ page:

http://www.geocities.com/cofrdrbob/faq.html

and look for "protector.zip".

There are basically 3 ways to protect your map, although this last one is by far the most efficient as it would require a very thorough knowledge of BSP to get rid of it.

It consists of placing a specific prefab in your map (which can be nodrawed) and when Vmex finds it, it stops the decompiling.

I know there will be those strongly against protecting their files, and who would gladly share their finds. I'm one of those. I wish all the community would share their finds so everyone can make better maps, but I've now made a clear disctinction between two things:

Tutorial maps VS proper maps.

I'm more than willing to spend time making a vmf tutorial to explain how to do this or that, but I don't want my entire map to be ripped off. It's my first and there are bound to be things I shouldn't have done the way I have. I've also spent hundreds of hours learning how to map for the past year, and ripping off someone's work doesn't make you improve any of your skills, so it's detrimental to yourself as well.

I hope everyone here knows I gladly give content for their own use.

But a straight rip and port is a bit slack, age and ignorance aren't acceptable. I can easily find out the original mapper if I want, so can a 13 year old.

I've been talking to another guy just now and he has also ported dod_murky to DoD:S so there are actully two version of the same map.

Funny thing is, I know this guy and he didn't even look to see who made the map.

He's going to do othrs as well, so I've suggested he contacts the original mapper first.

If someone does that to my maps I will beat them to within an inch of their lives.

I'll share what I want people to have.

Originally posted by Ginger Lord
If someone does that to my maps I will beat them to within an inch of their lives.

I'll share what I want people to have.

You rang? :dog:

Originally posted by Ginger Lord
If someone does that to my maps I will beat them to within an inch of their lives.

I'll share what I want people to have.

Same here.

Funny it should be this of all maps. I've actully given the rmf to a friend of mine so he can convert the map.

This is the way it should be, someone asks me I'll help them.

No doubt I'll see ports of dod_snuz_b2 and other "OLD" maps of mine as the rmf's are up for grabs to anyone that wants them tinfoil

I wanted to attempt a convertion of tc_caen from firearms to dod 1.3 as an excercise in mapping (mainly enteties, texturing and some model placements) so I contacted the original creator and asked him if I had his permission and he replied that he would do the convertion so I dropped my plans for it.

I don't know why others don't have this common courtesy towards those that contribute custom content for us and give new life to old games

Nice one prone ranger.

I have nothing against the likes of Mosalar, he didn't convert any of the maps that resulted in this thread.

All I have to say is what I've all ready said:

But a straight rip and port is a bit slack, age and ignorance aren't acceptable. I can easily find out the original mapper if I want, so can a 13 year old.

e-frear ... e-thug .. are not for this forum, never have been ... a lot of mappers here are old and have families and are not thugs of any form.

A lot of mappers here are very good at mapping and like to release polished maps, one thing I noticed was just the BSP being released. Sorry but I package the whole map, not just the BSP. I also try to encourage mappers to learn how to polish and release better maps. something a lot of seasoned mappers could help with here.

The DoD mapping community was always way ahead of a lot of the other communitys, no flame intended to all the good mappers out there (3DMike) but dod maps pushed the HL1 engine to the limits.

This is not l33t'est at all ... it's a fact and I've learnt so much from you guys ... thank you.

NOTE: Sorry if you feel offended Mosalar, I have nothing against you, it's a shame that you feel the way you do.

I personally don't mind it when people take a map and tweak it. The best example I can think of is the original cs_assault

There are dozens of Assault maps, with the same original premise of a garage surrounded by a small city-scape. All the best and most-respected of these versions say:

"Thank you to CryptR for his original work and inspiration"

To me, if I had a map, that would be enough to satisfy me. This game is built upon publicly free maps being available. The whole community thrives when more maps are made available.

I'm not saying that I support direct ports at all. They are an insult to the mapper. However, I do feel that modified versions or updates are great, as long as credit is given to the original mapper. They are an homage, really.

If people love a map so much, then don't blatantly copy it and rip it off. Tweak it, honor it, and then give thanks for the original idea.

It's a shame this happened, i'm not so annoyed about the map itself - i'm annoyed by the total disreguard shown to something which should be sacred.

the bad part of it all is that you've been so easily accessible for years now Haircut.

Some say immitation is the highest form of flattery. but decompiling and then posting it as your own, not renaming it and not giving you credit as the original author goes far above and beyond plagerism.

No excuses what so ever.

New rule in the DOD:S Map Name (Reference) Database.

I am one of many who agrees with that saying, "Imitation is the highest form of flattery." and I'm totally happy when someone else has seen what I've done and wants to do their own version of it.

But when somebody doesn't credit me at all?

That's when the **** hits the jet turbine.

credits don't make it right. I'm of the understanding there is some unspoken rules one should follow when mapping...

1) Don't copy or imitate anyones work without permission

2) Don't name your map that of anothers.

I think there are a lot of people out there who really wouldn't mind having someone else converting a map of theirs but thats not the point.... The point as I said is that people show total disrespect for you and your work when they blatently rip it off.

I'm glad the mods stood up and did the right thing by handing down a forum ban for this person. Thanks guys, love your work.

Whoops. I also meant to say that the person making a port / remaking it / anything to do with the original map (ESPECIALLY if it's a decompile) should ask first.

Yes, credit doesn't make it right, either.

...I was more going along with what I'm ok with for other people to imitate/port/remake my work (not necessarily fellow mappers). I'm personally fine if they don't ask permission... it'd be preferable, but not necessary. I would be upset if they don't give credit, however.