This may seem anal, but does anybody else think the first person Stg model makes the barrel look really short and the weapon overall looks stubby? It just seems like in every DoD version the model makes it look like an mp5 rather than an assault rifle. It's as if the soldiers hand takes up the whole area of the barrel.

Look at pics of people holding an stg here (http://burnfan0.tripod.com/id18.html)
Here there seems to be weapon length after the holder's non-shooting hand.

It's still a well done model, though. Just trying to see if anyone else shares my opinion.

The weapons really look like that from a person pov, from what i remember the dod team has held these weapons.

it's been discussed about other weapons too....ill try to find the thread

As far as I understand it, the weapons are modeled in their real proportions and you just see it from your own POV. Any distortion is pretty much what you'd see in real life.

That's how I understand it, if it acctualy works the way it should? *shrug*

As far as I understand it, the weapons are modeled in their real proportions and you just see it from your own POV. Any distortion is pretty much what you'd see in real life.

Actually it's "FOV". Automatically shortens and stubifies the models/if not all first person models in DOD. I don't mind it on some weapons but the 30cal. & MG42 look absolutely ridiculous with it.
From what i heard, there is no command to remove FOV at the moment.

Originally posted by MaRzY
Theres very limited information about Halflifes Field Of Vision (FOV), and how it effects the look of v_models ingame, or how we would go about correcting these problems, in fact i could not find any. What we do know though is HL FOV distorts v_models in some way, and that FOV model editing came about because of this problem. So it would seem fair to presume that FOV edited models are an attempt to make a weapon look more like it would in real life, and if this is the case, it would seem to me that FOV editing is a move in the right direction.


With the lack of information, i decided to put a little experiment together, in the hope to get a better understanding on how halflife distorts the model.

First i found a pole and every 6 inches rapped a one inch piece of tape around, then i held it in a similar way to that of an ingame rifle, not shouldered, but more of a stock under the arm look. What i noticed was the tape and six inch spaces looked more or less as wide all the way along the pole, and also that it tapered off very little. I now made the pole as a 3d abject and compiled it as a weapon model, using similar origins, and used HLMV to compare it to what i'm seeing in real life, and this is what i found out.


1. The pole with no FOV edits, everything except the length looks wrong here, the pole tapers to much and tape and spaces all differ greatly.
2. The pole with FOV edits made to it's length and width of the tape and spaces, in an attempt to get everything looking more evenly matched. This was working, but i would have to of made the model really long if i was to carry on down that road.
3. So instead i decided my only option was to make the width and spaces even closer, to help combat the models overall length. This work well, and is looking much more like the real pole i'm holding, it's just tapering off way to much.
4. The same as 3 but the model has been tapered inwards towards the players view, and outwards towards center screen. This is not perfect, but out of them all it's the closest to what i'm holding.

Image (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/scitzo/FOV_stick.jpg)


So it appears that HL FOV is distorting are models so that those parts closet to are FOV are being stretched the most and look wider, and those running away from are FOV are more squashed together, and thinner. We also have a little better idea on how to go about trying to correct the problem. By making those parts closet to your FOV more squashed together, and the further away the model is from your FOV, the more it needs to be stretched, and that it also needs to be tapered.

Another thing to note, is origins play a big part in how any model can look FOV edited or not. Like if you play around with the origins in HLMV, or just watch different anim's. You will notice how wide, thin, longer or shorter the model will look. So if your thinking of making FOV edits to a model, it would probably be best to set up your models origins first, then make your edits.

Well there you go, we all like distorted models one way or another. Half of us like models that are shaped like the real thing, but once ingame, HL sucks and distorts them towards the center point of infinity, and the other half like those with distorted edits in an attempt to make them look more realistic, and save them being sucked beyond infantry.

I do think FOV editing is here to stay, and if done well can make a model look more realistic to how it would appear in the real world, but i don't think you will ever get it perfect. It's just in it's early stages, and is really a skill to be learnt, but with no knowledge base to get any info or guides from, and not enough people practicing methods and technics, it's going to take time before we maybe find a happy medium.


If you think i'm wrong in anything i say, then please leave a comment, these are just my observations and i may be wrong, and with there being very little info on this subject, anything thrown into the pot would be welcome.

Originally posted by Splinter
Actually it's "FOV". Automatically shortens and stubifies the models/if not all first person models in DOD. I don't mind it on some weapons but the 30cal. & MG42 look absolutely ridiculous with it.
From what i heard, there is no command to remove FOV at the moment.

I acctualy meant to say point of view, but your right, that's what they call that effect.

Yeh the weapons look really chunky :/

Also dont like the origins rather they be more centre so it looks like its pointing forwards puts me off sometimes i can rememeber i changed the origins in dod having them more centre my, kills went up which was cool.

Also take into account that a monitor represents the view from 1 eye, as you cant really do 2 eye views on a single monitor.

I guess its like closing one eye then holding yer gun - and representing onscreen what you can see.

absolutely ! the weapon looks way too funny. Actually i dont even use it at all because it "feels" strange..

I hope some talented model maker can fix that up sometime! :D

I liked the STG a lot more back in battlefield1942:

http://www.firingsquad.com/games/bf1942review/images/11.jpg
http://www.firingsquad.com/games/bf1942review/images/12.jpg

Yeh i like my weapons to be sorta slim.

wow old bf looks like :donrluvs::donrluvs::donrluvs::donrluvs: lol

i think it looks weird too, because the hands are olding the clip a little more, and its shouldered-ish at the same time.

I thought in the Source engine the models don't have the FOV problem. I could be wrong but the models in DOD:S don't have them changed like in Hl.

Originally posted by HammeR [OwP]
I thought in the Source engine the models don't have the FOV problem. I could be wrong but the models in DOD:S don't have them changed like in Hl.

You are correct.
I finally got Hammer and the Model Viewer to work with DOD:S. I viewed all the weapons models. There is no distortion whatsoever, no compensation for FOV, becasue it is not needed with the Source engine. Ta-da!

AS FOR EVERYONE talking about how stubby the weapons look....

Welcome to the world of 2D! Your monitor can only display things in 2D. It does not have the benefit of "stereo vision" (i.e. having 2 eyeballs). If you want to simluate 2D in real-life, close one eye. Then hold a weapon. It will end up looking a lot like the ones you see in DOD:S.

When you are directly behind a weapon, or any object, they tend to actually look stubby when viewed with only one eye.

Welcome to the world of 2D! Your monitor can only display things in 2D. It does not have the benefit of "stereo vision" (i.e. having 2 eyeballs). If you want to simluate 2D in real-life, close one eye. Then hold a weapon. It will end up looking a lot like the ones you see in DOD:S.
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This doesnt have to mean that it must look funny, since other games can make it look good too :)

Originally posted by r4scal
This doesnt have to mean that it must look funny, since other games can make it look good too :)
Matter of opinion.

I think those BF2 shots are horrible, and the DOD:S team is the one that finally got it right.

Perspective doesn't get much better than this IMHO

Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
Matter of opinion.

I think those BF2 shots are horrible, and the DOD:S team is the one that finally got it right.

Perspective doesn't get much better than this IMHO


Gotta agree with you there, the DoD 44 blows BF1942 away.

if i recall correctly i believe the dev team said that they would no longer have to scew the weapon models for proportional purposes because the FOV of the v_models can be independent of your world FOV. meaning they can adjust the perspective of the first person weapons without changing your overall field of view of the surrounding world.

I hated the '44 in BF1942.

And the one in DoD 1.3 was not something special for me...

But the '44 in Source is amazing! Really feels heavy and powefull.

I'd have to argue some of you guys are too used to old games that got it wrong. The quasi-FP photo's I have of Mp44's seem to match up pretty well and it really does appear wider than you would expect.

Can we edit the origins in the qc file or would sounce servers have a paddy tantrum with the file constincaycaycyacyac thingy ma jig

Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
Matter of opinion.

I think those BF2 shots are horrible, and the DOD:S team is the one that finally got it right.

Perspective doesn't get much better than this IMHO
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Matter of Opinion
RO's STG - Skin/Model/FP perspective/Animation/How the weapon is held/ & Sound doesn't get much better than this IMHO
http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/8924/stg2ea.jpg

Originally posted by Splinter
Matter of Opinion
RO's STG - Skin/Model/FP perspective/Animation/How the weapon is held/ & Sound doesn't get much better than this IMHO
http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/8924/stg2ea.jpg
Well, you're talking about a full realism game, so that comes without saying.

However, the hand looks very basic and dull comparing to the stg44 model, at least in dods there is consistent level of detail between everything.

Off topic, but i keep hearing about this RO. What is it?

Originally posted by BigRedJake
Off topic, but i keep hearing about this RO. What is it?
Red Orchestra (http://www.redorchestra.clanservers.com/) is a WW2 Total Realism Mod for UT2004 based on the Eastern Front of the war. You can play as a Russian or a German and fight on maps based on the real battles that occured on that front. It's as realistic as it can get, meaning it doesn't have crosshairs and you have to use ironsights most of the time, the maps are very large and there are usable vehicles on some. Also, the team recently won a mod contest held by the creators of UT and the first prize was full access to the latest unreal engine. Last news is that they are going retail now.

Redorchestra is awesome. Valve should buy some of their mappers so we get more quality maps soon !!!

Well, you're talking about a full realism game, so that comes without saying.
That only applies to gameplay. DOD has the potential and is able to be on par with RO's models/skins/animations/sounds.

However, the hand looks very basic and dull comparing to the stg44 model, at least in dods there is consistent level of detail between everything.
True. RO consists of many skinners working on different weapon models and the like. Im not sure about DOD's team tho. As far as im concerned, Agent~0 is a one man army, thus keeping a consistant level of style. That's all from judging on the skin maps that i've checked (which are all quite well done i must say).

Also I'd like to say that winning the MSUC was the best thing that ever happened to them. The current "plain" UT2K4 was, somehow, limiting them on which they wanted to achieve. Having full access to the engine brings completely new possibilities for them. Hell, even the current source engine modding would be miles better than the ut2k4 engine right now.

you guys are all wrong, its perfect.

In the gold version it was rediculous. I remember looking at the player models and the bayonets were half the length of the gun so it would compensate for the fov ingame.

also, if you dont like. i believe you can change the fov with cheats on. I think its defaulted to 90, but human fov is much wider than that, but it won't be represented correctly on a monitor. If you have maybe 5 monitor wrapped around you, you can change the fov to human capacities.

Originally posted by r4scal
Redorchestra is awesome. Valve should buy some of their mappers so we get more quality maps soon !!!
Agreed.

Valve have good mappers, but they just need more. It takes sooooooo long for just one map to come out.