http://files.bighosting.net/lh16908.gif

Hi,

Together with a friend of mine I started to draw a layout of a map, and from there on I started mapping. The map is about 90% done.

The map I started creating takes place in Vaals, Belgium. That explains the name. :)

So, take a look at the screenshots and see if you like looks of it. If not, try to argument it so I can do something with it.
Other ideas are also welcome, of course,

tomato

Thanks to imageshack.us (http://www.imageshack.us) for hosting.

Looks really good! Great work!

Just 2 things tho:

- Some textures look too blurry even for the HL1 engine.

- Change that skybox! How can it snow with clear sky?

First: great work there! the pictures looking great

Second: Vaals is a village on the border between germany and the nederlands near aachen. i know this, because i live 1 mile away ;-)

Is this gonna be a flag-capper? Quick or slow paced?

I see flags in the screenies thats one hint a flag-capper :D

looks good for the most part. couple of things I noticed.

looks like the light is coming out the top of that model. use a light_spot instead.

that wood model looks out of place. put some snow on it, or at least dull the texture some to match the rest of the textures.

@ Maxey
You are right. The skybox does not fit my map. I am still looking for another (clouded) custom sky.
Suggestions anyone? :)

About the textures, I made some myself wich explains the blurryness, I guess. I am not sure how to solve this. Maybe I'll let it be...

@ markmaster
Hey, alles goed? Ik had toch even iets meer research moeten doen naar de plaats... Goed dat je het even zegt in ieder geval! :)

@ Shane
Yes, it is going to be a CTFmap. I have not playtested it yet, but I recon it's going to be fast paced, altough it has certainly room for riflemen and even snipers!

@ josh_u[RR]
The wood.mdl is indead a bit out of place. I will see if I can reskin it myself. If not, I will probably leave the wood model there as it is, because I think it still adds athmosphere, out of place or not.

Unless you all differ of course...

Thanks for the feedback allready! I'll try to keep you up to date!

tomato

Have you tried the Zalec or Kalt skybox?

The map itself looks as if some good fights could take place on it:)
As others said some textures look a little blurred...and if you have a light source always put an env_glow into the bulb pls ;D

Beside changing the sky, think about a better toned lightcolor for all the lamps. Something more orange or even slightly white light would look better if your sky was a darker one (what you have to do if you want to keep up the snow effect).

tomato: I was using that same wood model myself for awhile. I took it out because it was too much clutter for where I put it. anyway, I adjusted the colors to more dod-like (more greys). not a complete reskin or anything, but if you'd like I can post it up for you.

Thanks Josh, but I allready skinned the original:
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/5791/woody5vb.gif

@ Maxey and Devil-K
I am still searching for a better suiting skybox, preferable custom.
As for the lightning, I can only say that's still in developement, but I will experiment with what you've written, Devil-K.

As for the rest, I am clipping my models, wich takes a lot of time. I have also just added a easter egg. :)

cool, I think that will fit much better.

For everyone who is following the progress of DoD_Vaals; this week is going to be very hectical for me. Alot has happened the last couple of days, and more will, in the days to come.

I have also done quite a fair bit of the things I planned, but I am afraid that I will not be able to map this week.
I will hopefully update you all in the first days of next week (with screenshots).

Have a good week.

Nice work tomato!
Maybe make it little less bright, donno?

Like the small town feel;)

the picture of the inside of the church.... awesome. great brushwork there.

The inside of the church looks like a living room with couches.

Hi there,

This week I suspected I would not be able to map, but with the help of BasieP, my companion in leveldesign, 2d art and technical issues, it worked out quite well actually.

BasieP and I fixed some minor problems, added some detail and fiddled a bit with the layout, after playtesting it for awhile. With the two of us. :)
BasieP has done alot this week (more then I have, frankly) and has been busy fixing all sorts of problems. He also textured some really neat propaganda posters (wich will be in the next update).

Anyway, we we've come at a point were another update of our progress wouldn't hurt us.
Again: any feedback (need I say the magic word? :)) will be greatly appreciated!

tomato

*** END OF UPDATE ***

Wow, great job! However I think the light is a bit weird now. It doesn't really look like night... :sheep:

agreed, we have to work on that.

the intention was to make it nightfall, (lighting like this)

however the sky texture we used (from Counter-Strike cs_747 map) is a midnight sky... we're still searching for a decent one..

just wanted to say that I LOVE the hanging meat! great idea. its nice to see people try something other than the typical empty rooms.

changelog so far:

church banches are now wood (thanx 4 feedback)
skybox is now clouded dark sunset
map is less bright (even less) and inside the buildings it's made lighter (for contrast)
balanced layout
bot testing
lots of details (models/lights placement)
texture fixes


and yes i am a meat lover ;)


new pics:

Screenies please. :D

nice timing maxey :P

WOW! Looks a lot better now, great job!!

Hereby I announce that this map gets the Official "Arrr Matey!" Approval Stamp by Maxey! ;)

I suggest you to contact Shane or DarkPenfold so they can beta-test it and give a lot of useful feedback for you guys.

Any idea when you might have a playable version ready?

PM me if you're interested in any playtesting.

Originally posted by Shane
Any idea when you might have a playable version ready?

PM me if you're interested in any playtesting.

we just tested it ourselves and want to do some adjustments.

also we need to fix some models. when everything goes as plan by tomorrow we will have the first beta release.

greetz,
killer tomato & BasieP

wow! that lighting is niiiice! church looks a lot better with those new benches too.

one tiny critizism...the crater in the snow looks like it has a bright white ring around it. probably due to the fact that the texture scaling on the crater is much smaller than the surounding snow texture. it might be a pain to fix it, and not worth the effort, but I figured I'd point it out just so you know. :)

Originally posted by josh_u[RR]
wow! that lighting is niiiice! church looks a lot better with those new benches too.

one tiny critizism...the crater in the snow looks like it has a bright white ring around it. probably due to the fact that the texture scaling on the crater is much smaller than the surounding snow texture. it might be a pain to fix it, and not worth the effort, but I figured I'd point it out just so you know. :)
now that's good feedback, i totally hadn't have seen it.

there was indeed a texture problem, and also a light hanging right above that spot
fixed

Wow great work. It´s also amazing how the overall look changed during this thread. I hope someone could post an ip as soon as the map is out ;)

Thanks,

You're right. The map has changed quite alot. Thanks to good feedback. :)

looking alot better, gj. My only suggestions are to change the interior textures of the church. The wood beams and the wallpaper look like really old 128x128 textures.

*** UPDATE ***

The first beta has been sent out to a few people. Before a public release we want to be sure the map 'approved' by a few of our very best mappers/members.

We'll keep you up-to-date!

BasieP and killer tomato

PS: If you're interested in a eventual online test, or if you are willing to host the map for playtesting, you can always PM me or BasieP.

It's a nice-looking map, but I can't comment on the gameplay until I've had a go on a dedicated server.

One thing I will say though - watch the r_speeds on the streets outside each team's spawn. FPS drop from 70 to less than 20 if you look down the length of the street, though it doesn't seem to be a great enough distance to have that much of an effect.

Oh, and you need a texture for the shield in front of the .88 - it loos a little sparse at the moment :carrot:

Hey DarkPenfold,

Yes, you're right about everything.
As far as the visblocking goes, BasieP is ging to see what can be done about that, this weekend. That's definitly a thing that needs to be solved indeed!

The texture of the .88 is something I will take a look at very soon. It looks sparse indeed.

As for a playtest, BasieP and I are awaiting a 'go' from Shane. We will certainly contact you when the time has come... :)

Thanks,

BasieP and tomato

KillerTomato,

If you need more beta private testing I can fill a 907th members private beta test session (24 Men easy). We are becoming a bigger player in the dod scene as far as custom maps goes, since we do have a public server running 20 custom maps and rotating some every week and a website that host over 210 dod custom maps.

Also since you do a lot of map i would not mind to help you out on beat testing any time you would need some. 907th have over 210 members and we do have a dod custom maps comitee that test dod custom maps every week of the year.

Also as soon as your map is ready for a public beta release I would definitly like to add it to our public map download section and probably on rotation as soon as we have tested it.

I am in charge of the map section for 907th and always very busy but would not mind to leave you my e-mail so you can notify me anytime you have release or need beta testing with high number of players.

I must say I love your mapping and the way you get the feed back from the community to make it better, keep up the good work, I love your maps.

I started mapping last febuary and just love it. I made a first map for CS Source to learn the new hl2 engine and mapping in general and I started a dod source map. I will post on it too in this forum.

Nice improvement guys, if there is a way to tone down the
glowing parachute on the guy in the clocktower I would do that.

Wow, it's come along nicely!

One question, though- is it a para map? Because there's a dead paratrooper up on that tower...

thanx for the positive reactions..

about the para trooper in the tower..

it's not a para map, it's just decoration.

and it's glowing because there's a spotlight aimed at it (just left behind the screenshot)

this is also to make snipers visible when they are behind the paratrooper in the tower


@coolhand:
thanx for the offer, we have messaged some people from this forum for a private beta test.
and we are awaiting the results.

also as you have seen i'm currently working on visblocking.
before we release a public beta, i want to reduce the r_speeds a lot (i'm trying to cut them in half)

unfortunatly it doesn't work the way it should so it might take some time..

anyway, we will let you know when the public beta is ready

Cool. :) I could help out, if you would like.

Originally posted by Jibba-Jabba
Cool. :) I could help out, if you would like.

well i am totally redoing all the hint brushes right now. check out this topic for my problems:
http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48557

i hope i can compile tonight, and then tomorrow i'll post the results

tnx 4 the offer

Originally posted by BasieP
thanx for the positive reactions..

about the para trooper in the tower..

it's not a para map, it's just decoration.

and it's glowing because there's a spotlight aimed at it (just left behind the screenshot)

this is also to make snipers visible when they are behind the paratrooper in the tower.

http://www.imagemonster.org/getimg/vaalsje.jpg

:)

I really like the progress you've been doing on it, i'll be sure to play this map as soon as it's released.:)

The new version looks so much better. :eek:

http://img98.echo.cx/img98/7287/123test1ol.jpg
Playtesting... :D

PS, my ingame name is 'dodelijke tomaat'. :vader:

some new screenshots:




a complete list of all our screenshots can be found here:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/atia/dod_vaals/


Still working on the visblocking thing. Once we figured out to reduce epolys more then just the 15-20% we do now, then we continue with the second (most likely private) beta.

Am I the only one who can't see the screenshots? :confused:

they work for me, and are hosted on imageshack, so should work

try ctrl-F5

Weird, I can't see images from imageshack by direct-linking, but if I paste the image url directly into the address bar it opens fine. :confused:

Okay,

BasieP and I haven't been laying around on our asses lately (well, I did actually) and we've been able to make the following improvements:

* Ledges are now not climable along that big building, just around the one with the windows;
* spawns have been rebuilt;
* axis spawn is a little more to the back (so further away from the bridge);
* allied spawn is further away from there second flag, but closer to the bridge;
* made a door in the wall next to the church, now you can't camp the axis spawn from before the bridge (will be shown on next screenshots);
* both spawns now have 3 exits;
* reduced r_speeds 10-25%;
* redecorated the church;
* added breakable glass in the windows (machineguns can't be deployed if the glass is not broken);
* increased cap area on the bridge (but you can still capture beneath the bridge);
* 2nd and 4th flagboth need now 2 persons to cap;
* top of the church tower now is more closed, you can snipe just trough a small hole, but you are clearly visible;
* barbed wires now do 0 dmg, but still make the 'hurtsound', so players won't go camp in them. (would be unrealistic);
* made a gate in the long road left from allied spawn, so it's less machine gun controlled;
* made one of the windows in the allied house (allied side of bridge) open (can jump trough).

Apart for of some more minor changes, this is the changelog for today. We hope to have screenshots and more stuff in the very near future!

Cheers!

tomato and BasieP

hey, i was testing the beta or whatever it was in the 82ndR server and boy, this map is really great. i love the feel of it.

*but are you aware of the fps drop on the axis spawn and on the left side of the map(axis side) my fps drops down to 9 :(
*and on the tower by the hanging body :rolleyes: if you try to get on the roof, you slide off, and it hurts me legs ;)

but the map is great looking and i played it for a long time

true, most what you have posted has been told to me, stuck at exit spawn in crack, FPS drops etc.. so can't wait for the update, oh the 82ndR server is one of mine

it does look well designed judging from the pictures. sky is...um. lol.

well as you can see in the visblocking topic in this same forum, we have done many tests, and accually improved the fps quite a lot.

but I myself have just an old GeForce 3 Ti200, and play @ 1280x1024 and still have like 30 fps LEAST (on the first beta map)
So i'm wondering if perhaps you missed a driver update or have some other very outdated hardware, because 9fps is really WAY to low, even on the first beta map of dod_vaals...

uh, people in 82ndR also had huge fps drops aswell. but i'll check into my hardware or something.

NEW UPDATE

Basiep and I have been very busy lately. We have come to a point were we wanted to release the next beta of dod_vaals. Our beloved dod_vaals...

All chosen mappers/experts/elite forummembers/lucky people have received the link to the new beta.

Shane will make sure dod_vaals will get a public betatest. If you think you should be a playtester too, just send a PM to BasieP or me and we'll take it concideration. ;)

Anyhow,
BasieP has made a promotionmovie (I only watched > :o) for all people who want to take a closer look of dod_vaals:

http://img101.echo.cx/img101/6125/vaalsthemovie7qw.jpg
DOWNLOAD (http://members.home.nl/zuriel/vaals.avi)

For now, this is the end of the update, we will later add a list of things that have been changed/added/removed/etc..

Yours sincerely,

BasieP and killer tomato

nice dude, it looks good can't wait till you release it.

Runs great, good r_speeds, that 88 looks terrible atm, very little attention to that and it shows.

A few other textures need a touch up, mainly a few cobble walls with snow on them, and those doors with the snow that partially comes in also needs to be redone.

I also think the sky is "ok" but perhaps a change might be in order.

At this point its polishing time and textures seem to be more of an issue than brushwork.

Other than that, waiting for this ellusive playtest that will happen one day :)

movie was a great idea :D

changelog:

things we changed:

ledges are now not climable along that big building, just around the one with the windows
spawns are rebuild
axis spawn is a little more to the back (so further away from the bridge)
allied spawn is further away from there second flag, but closer to the bridge
made a door in the wall next to the church, now you can't camp the axis spawn from before the bridge
spawns have now 3 exits
reduced r_speeds 10-25%
redecorated the church
added breakable glass in the windows (machineguns can't be deployed if glass is not broken)
increased cap area on the bridge (but you can still capture beneath the bridge)
second and fourth flags are now also cap area's with 2 people to capture.
top of the church tower now is more closed, you can snipe just trough a small hole, but are clearly visible.
barbed wires now do 0 dmg, but still make the sound, so players don't go camp in them. (would be unrealistic)
made a gate in the long road left from allied spawn, so it's less machine gun controlled.
made one of the windows in the allied house (allied side of bridge) open (can jump trough)
getting stuck behind those 2 cars (between wall and car) = fixed
placed some ruble on the bridge & ruins
make sure that it's visible when doors can't be entered

alright I just played dod_vaals, and had some things i didnt like. the enemy was always able to spawn camp with a mg. the barbwire needs to hurt people, and the chuch should have some more cracks to shoot from, like one covering the bridge. In one window I couldn't mount a mg. The map is a bit too small, it seemed the enemy could sprint to our spawn. The one thing I hated the most was the cow not dieing. I was probing the cow for a minute and it didnt die. But otherwise everything else on the map was good, except for me lagging.

did you play the map yourself or with others?
because we made a lot of these things you say on perpose, to improve balance, and remove the 'strong spots'

also the map is longer then avalance, so it can't be 'to small' it's a close combat map, that makes it smaller, but i personally like small maps

i.e. we removed the barbed wire from hurting you, because it's annoying enought you have to jump over it or walk across it.

also we closed the holes in the church (the top) because it was way to powerfull (compared to the allies)

then about the cow.. i really don't think there is even a 'die' model for it. btw: there are more (official) maps that use that cow, and in non of them, the cow can die.. also, it's just standing on a spawn, so not really THE object to waist a couple of entities on..

and i didn't place a machine gun stance in the window of the church, because it would stick into the paratrooper model (which should make it imposible to deploy) and also, when you aim at the brdige entrance you can cover way to much

In glider you can kill the cow. (Granted I haven't played the most recent version since it came out though.)

I think for a lot of the areas you should remove the sticking out portion of the door frames, this will reduce a lot of small unnecessary polies as well as removing all those little spots that you can get hung up on.

I'd also increase the speed of the doors from the spawn, it bottlenecks up pretty fast. Slow doors (or big doors with the default speed) might seem like a good idea in concept, but don't play well.

For most of the map in general the scale of the doors is a bit off, they should be a bit shorter and a bit wider.

UPDATE

and the first public beta is out:
you can read all about it, right here:
http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49608

This map is unique, with a particular feeling, for example the burning house, its something that really makes a map. Great job.
For next update, why not add a nice burning sprite (which made CoD burnville so beautiful) and gain a few fps by changing the particle_shooter settings... Anyway I just would like to give more weight to the previous post(s), about scaling (particulary in the butchery).

The dead cow model in glider might just be a normal model with particular xyz angles ala 0 90 0?

No doubt i'll join any server running it. Looks great!

i'm redoing some stuff in vaals now.

the second beta release will have way better r_speeds, and a more close combat feeling.

i'm working on the 'fighting for every meter' stuff, but keeping enough options open to sneak trough the defences of the enemy.

screenshots so far:

Originally posted by BasieP
i'm redoing some stuff in vaals now.

the second beta release will have way better r_speeds, and a more close combat feeling.

i'm working on the 'fighting for every meter' stuff, but keeping enough options open to sneak trough the defences of the enemy.


I think fixing the r_speeds is great, but I really want to caution against any layout or gameplay changes. The gameplay is excellent as is, and it doesn't take much to screw it up or unbalance it.

You have the gameplay just right, I recommend leaving it as is and focusing on the technical performance of the map.

Also, if you're gonna do public betas, use a different name or something because when you're "finally" all done, you're gonna have several different versions of your map out there which will only lead to:
A. confusion
B. your map being played less than it should be

Hmm....I too hate to see the map changed, however, as long as you name it dod_vaals_b2, then we'll still be able to play dod_vaals_b1

Since you're going for more of a close quarters style, then I recommend more than just opening the ground floor doorways. Any fool can walk through a doorway, as it takes no skill. Consider adding some 1st floor windows that can be jumped through, as well as varied terrain (high vs low, concealment vs cover, etc.) that allow for hit & run tactics. Adding varied terrain can make a close quarters fight more than just a battle for who can click their mouse the fastest and who's got the better computer.....it'll instead be a fight for who stays the coolest while fighting at high speeds.

As an example, let's say you kneel-jump out of a 1st floor window and fire at whichever enemy is facing you (the one who is most likely to get you first), then you turn and strafe at the enemy who wasn't paying attention, all the while moving from the window towards more cover, then you jump down a stairwell or the creekbed, or behind a column to dodge fire and reload, then you can move fast down the creekbed into another building or through an alley, never taking any damage. With the right setup, an exchange like that can take no more than 6-10 seconds, and it would require some tactical skill to do so. Movement is key on a close quarters map, as you know. What makes that movement unique is the variation in terrain, as the more skilled players would be able to recognize and exploit the terrain, which gives the map more replay value.

I know you understand all of this. I just really enjoy Vaals, and speedy maps in general. Maps like Caen, Ambushcombat, Koln, Belgium, Dream, etc are my favorite style maps of all time, and Vaals was already as good in my mind. I didn't even have many complaints with the R speeds, since gameplay was so good.

But if you're definitely changing it, then I hope it retains or improves upon the already-solid speed play.

Originally posted by Bocasean
Hmm....I too hate to see the map changed, however, as lo...

*cut*

...or improves upon the already-solid speed play.

well i changed the map now on 4 places, all changes are 'major' and all changes are new buildings or moves buildings that break up the line of sight.

for instance, there's now small room above the gate, and the gate is closes, you have to go 'around' it. (hole in the wall)
this helps r_speeds enormously, and should accually allready be done while designing.. anyway. i found a real bad spot in dod vaals, go to the 'burning' house, and stand in the corner under the smoke, now face accoss the map down the road next to the church.
i have about 10fps with and 20 without smoke there :D

therefore that spot is the biggest change in the map, the area next to the ruins flag is made a bit smaller, and some bulidings moved, the overall 'feel' of the map hasn't changed, in fact i try to improve it.

i hope i can make some screens tomorrow

Hey Bocasean,

Your feedback is really apreciated. :)

IMPORTANT NOTE
Alltough I'll stay very close to the developement of DoD_Vaals, I decided to let BasieP finish DoD_Vaals into the latest beta's. The main part of leveldesign has been accomplished.
BasieP agreed and he's taking the last part for his account. Things like visblocking are more his thing, really, and that's 95% of the things that still needs to be done. A part from some tactical changes.

I really enjoyed to see the whole proces of a (good) idea becomming a map. I really like to thank the DoDcommunity for all the support: thanks! :)

I started drawing a layout of another map, and I'm planning to post that pretty soon, so you might want to check that out too. Be sure to
allways check the mappingsection (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=10)!

BasieP, take it away! :)

tomato :PARROT:

hi guys,

I haven't been eating out of my nose lately, so there is a new version of dod_Vaals 'done'

i will send shane a message and hope he can test if :)

here is the changelog

ALL FPS problems are fixed
capturing a flag makes a sound
updated some models (tnx Propenso Al Suicidio)
fixes


mm that's about it..

i've been quite rational to fix the fps probs.
Therefore now there are more buildings in the map.

i think screenshots show a lot more then a changelog will do here.

Link doesn't work...here is the message I am getting...

Error 404
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yeah stupid host has like 5 mb orso, so i had to remove the first beta to make space :|