Thoughts?

I'm a bit disappointed at how sparse it still is... No decompiler... and the HLMV is still pretty crippled... Won't let you even look at the textures let alone allow you to import/export them... Kind of bummed until some useful tools come out...


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Yeah it is a bit spartan really :(

The HL2 model content appears to just be the source for the buggy - no player model or v_models and though there is better QC documentation, no examples so it still makes building things like v_models hard because you dont know the specifics for the anims, etc.

The MAX exporter is and old Max 3.1 one and references BonesPro which hasnt been part of Max for ages so it wont compile and the VTAWeight exporter compiles but wont load in Max :(

No decompiler, but the StudioMDL source is there along with a couple of files that defines the MDL format so a decompiler might be possible.

Bit dissapointing in all, especially from the point of view of content creators.

well i think that hl2 seemed half finish too
both the story and the content
a lot of the things they showed in the
videos wasn't there.
it just seemed like they would have needed 6 months more to finish it more/better.

it will take some time before i get used to the new material/skin system.
all the codes scared me a bit when saw the docs in the sdk
but i'll get used to it

how long time do you think there will go before a decompiler is made ?

a very useful addition as i find are the loads of example maps for certain enteties...

the modelviewer isnt even useful in its original meaning...if you add a model in hammer you got the same preview because of the cool jpg's...

in my opinion customization will be more difficult in some points but the normal leveldesign procedure became a little easier if you only use the given material.

Also the HLMV menu is much more complicated, the menu bar also takes half the screen so you can't see the origin view like you should.
and there no origin view menu, just a "jump to origin view".

Very bad :(

Won't let you even look at the textures let alone allow you to import/export them... Kind of bummed until some useful tools come out...


Yes it does let you import in a way.

Compile your texture into the correct locations, go to refresh and see the changes you just made.

Originally posted by [DoD]Agent~0
Yes it does let you import in a way.

Compile your texture into the correct locations, go to refresh and see the changes you just made.


Ok.. I stand corrected... But I was more referring to the "ease of use" the old HLMV had... I dare say that Jed's version of the HLMV is superior to the half-assed one that comes with the HL2 SDK... (if only he could figure out s awy to get the same workable features ;) )


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I agree.
What can be more basic then import/export texture in a menu ?

No doubt that Jed's HLMV is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than what we have now and i find it kinda sad because HL2 is much more complicated, more graphical features, graphic level is higher...
I want to start to skin models and stuff and i have no idea if v_models use bump/normal mapping, what resolution sizes are we talking about (for CS/HL models).
can you define materials when you compile ? how can you do it ?
how do i give mirror effects for metals (if it's possiable) and more.

It's kinda hard to do all of it when i can't decompile models or atleast export textures and see the avarage standards.

even the way you spin the model in the 3d view is worse than the old HLMV.

Remember: The source code to HLMV is included with the SDK.

I know but usualy most of the people that work with graphics don't really know how to code.

Of course it will be great if people like jed will help the modding community and release their versions for the HLMV and other modding tools but still... i think the tools provided by valve are not enough.

lol what about hl2dm ..
it just seemed like somthing that took 2 hours
it's like "omg people is complaining about hl2 doesn't have multiplayer, lets make something fast!!"
the maps (the 2 maps) is just taken from hl2 singelplayer. and that is not a problem.
the problem is that they are buggy. you can get stuck in the antlion-holes.
but hey ... the gravity gun is still fun :p

Originally posted by mXed.dk
you can get stuck in the antlion-holes.


Heh.. true, but think of them as traps... If you get stuck in them then you're basically a sitting duck for the next guy to come along... unless you can figure a way out...


I think Mortar makes a good point though... The tools provided aren't "dumb" enough for people like me... Sure the source code for everything is there, but I haven't the slightest clue how to code... As a "casual" modder" I'm out of luck... I'm positive that there are a large number of casual modders out there like myself who don't plan on building a complete mod from the ground up, but just want to make some small additions/changes... The source code does us no good.. We need completed tools that can be used "out of the box"... So here I sit at the mercy and good graces of the select few who have the required knowledge to transform raw code into something the dumb masses (like myself) can use to help us get our visions into the game...

Frankly I feel kind of cheated by the SDK... It appears as though mappers got what they wanted, but modelers were shafted somewhat... It's like watching your brother get a 24" die-cast 5 Lion Voltron for Christmas, and you just got socks...
I thought Valve said (back when) they were going to be releasing all the necessary tools for even the most amateur modder to be able to create custom content.. Well.. I'm about as amateur as they come...


:(

Originally posted by engineer
Remember: The source code to HLMV is included with the SDK.

??? Is it? Not in my version

Originally posted by Mortar
I agree.
What can be more basic then import/export texture in a menu ?


Thing is Mortar - you dont need to export, import textures. Textures are no longer stored inside the MDL files they are all external and are the same for textures on walls as well as models. Thats what the VTF files are - its a new texture format which, as far as I can deduce, contains the original image + MIP maps and can be DXT compressed or uncompressed.

The VMT files are just text files which say how to "build" a texture from VTF files. So for example you could have a texture which comprises of a normal bitmap or a bitmap with a normal map or specular map, etc., etc. For your model, you just give it the name of the VMT file to use and from that it pulls in the textures and blends them as needed.

With regard to looking at the VTF files, there is an application in the SDK called vtf2tga which will convert the textures back into TGA files. However it needs compiling.

Its my intention, if and when I ever get my hands on a copy of Visual Studio .NET 2003, to combine VTF2TGA and VTEX into a GUI based standalone app for creating and decompiling textures.


No doubt that Jed's HLMV is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than what we have now and i find it kinda sad because HL2 is much more complicated, more graphical features, graphic level is higher...

Well thanks for the compliment but bare in mind that my version was really for HL1 and a lot has changed and some features are redundant. Unless I screwed up I dont have the HLMV source in my SDK folder but I dont have the right compiler to rebuild it. If I had it I might add some stuff to HLMV but at the same time, not everthing 1.3 had is relevant to Source.



I want to start to skin models and stuff and i have no idea if v_models use bump/normal mapping, what resolution sizes are we talking about (for CS/HL models).

Yes, the documentation is a little spartan but as mentioned before, bump and normal maps are all supported by models. "Textures" are made up of a VMT files which pulls together various components to make the final texture. For example, if you look at the HL2 shot-gun models VMT you'll see that it uses a base texture and normal map, plus a specular mask to give the reflection of the skybox on certain parts of the model.

Yes, if you change the names of your VMT's then you would need to compile the MDL again, but in most cases you can just edit the VTF files and hit refresh in HLMV to reload it or if you like edit the VMT to make it use different components.

As for sizes, largest I've seen is 1024x1024 - but of course, it doesnt necessarily mean you should use that size! Be efficient - HL2 is resource intensive as it it so overloading it with 10 1024x1024 textures for a v_model isnt going to do a lot of good.



can you define materials when you compile ?

Yes in as much as you specify which VMT file the mesh uses. Although in the SMD file its listed as a TGA file.

how can you do it ?

As mentioned above the steps are:

- Make you model. Assign a TGA to the mesh as per modelling in HL1.
- Export the SMD's and compile the model.
- Convert your TGA's to VTF files
- Create a VMT text file with the same name as the texture you specified in your SMD. The VMT denotes the components (base texture, normal map, specular map, environment map, etc) to be combined in the final texture.

how do i give mirror effects for metals (if it's possiable) and more.


You can't create a 100% true mirror effect but you use and environment map component to make a reflection of the current maps skybox similar but better in effect than the old chrome texture in HL1. How much and where on the models base texture the reflection occurs is set using a greyscale "mask" just like and alpha mask. White is 100% environment map, black is none.

Its what I did on the scope lens on the Enfield. I used a base blue glass texture then added a slight reflection as an environment map so when you move around the skybox is reflected in the scope relative to your position.

It's kinda hard to do all of it when i can't decompile models or atleast export textures and see the avarage standards.

You dont really have to decompile the models unless you want to mod one but you can look at them in HLMV in wireframe and shaded view to see how they are put together. I was suprised to see some of the CS:S models were almost 5000 polys! As I said, for the textures you CANT see how their constructed using the VMTs and you can decompile the VTF's back to TGAs using the tools in the SDK.


even the way you spin the model in the 3d view is worse than the old HLMV.

Can't comment on that ;)

ugh nm

on your marks... get set.... MOD!

Originally posted by Billie|Joe
ugh nm

on your marks... get set.... MOD!
lol.

jed, thanks for explaining those issues, sure helps :)

I'm currently at work so I can't verify this, but I saw that Steam did an update again for HL2DM & the SDK...

According to their news page they've added a vtf2tga (xwad & glview also) tool... If so.. that's a step in the right direction...


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uuuuuuhhh ....:cool:

Ok.. is there some way to run the HLMV outside of Steam? I don't know how to set up the darn thing to view other models... Isn't it the Gameinfo.txt file that says what it can and can't look at? I'm clueless... The more I poke around in the SDK the more frustrated I get...


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Nah, HLMV is linked to the Steam DLLs and what-not for accessing different things. There is supposed to be a non-steam mode (from what I can tell in some of the files) but it needs the standard file IO DLL file rather than the steam IO DLL and Valve haven't/won't release that.

Eff heres what you do.

1. Delete all forms of source things in your steam folder throug the delete local content option in steam.

2. Delete all source folders after that.

3. Now anything such as CS:S, HL2, and the SDK should be outa your steam folder.

4. Now re-install everything back EXECPT FOR THE SDK.

5. After thats done turn steam off then back on, now do the SDK install.

6. Steam off then on.

7. Now the SDK should be able to work for all source programs including HL2.

It used to be a lot simplier when Steam wasn't integrated into everything :E

Originally posted by darkflame
Eff heres what you do.

1. Delete all forms of source things in your steam folder throug the delete local content option in steam.

2. Delete all source folders after that.

3. Now anything such as CS:S, HL2, and the SDK should be outa your steam folder.

4. Now re-install everything back EXECPT FOR THE SDK.

5. After thats done turn steam off then back on, now do the SDK install.

6. Steam off then on.

7. Now the SDK should be able to work for all source programs including HL2.

Isn't there just an easier way by just editing the Gameinfo.txt ? I suppose I could give it a shot...


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ok.. well.. I didn't delete the existing GCF files.. I didn't feel like waiting hours to redownload them.. but I moved them all... deleted all the subfolders for each of the games... Restarted steam... closed it... moved all the GCFs back, and ran each of the games... Then.. downloaded the SDK GCF again, and installed it... Still doesn't give me an option to browse the HL1 Source models, and the other games.. It only lists HL2, HL2DM, and CSS...

Theres got to be a way to edit it's configuration file to tell it to use my Username folder as the root folder... That way I can then decide which game's files to browse through...

I hope they have more updates in mind for the SDK... It's more trouble than it's worth at this point, and I'm quickly losing my desire to even fiddle with it altogether...


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