Look for updates in RED at bottom of first post!

As you probably all know, DoD is soon going to be transitioning to the engine powering Half Life 2 (Officially known as the 'Source' Engine). Soon, people will want to start mapping for this wonderful new engine, and begin to push the boundaries of WW2 fps mapping back even further.

In my humble opinion this Forum needs a central place to keep snippets of DoD:Source mapping information, seeing as we will probably all be shifting to the new engine soon, right?

I dropped by (for the first time in almost a year!) after playing the new CounterStrike:Source throughout the last few days. My interest for mapping with HalfLife(1) / DoD has been close to zero for ages, but the capabilities of the new engine are making a return to mapping very tempting indeed. So I came to this forum wondering if I could find out more about Source engine mapping, and found to my surprise that there is very little information available on the subject.

So what do we know?

Well, the basics from what I have seen in CS:Source-

Maps can contain far more detail than HL1 style maps
Textures can be sharper and use normal/bump maps, cube map 'reflect world' style lighting effects (I forget the technical name)
Maps can be far more open than HL1 maps
There does not seem to be a hard 'r_speed' / Polygon count limit - When moving outside and above the maps in spectator mode, there is very little slowdown on my system (2Ghz Athlon, 9800Pro) Whereas in HL1/DoD, moving outside the map, or any situation where the r_speeds hit 1500 and higher, the system is slowed to a crawl.

OK, so thats what I've seen with my own eyes, but its a little short on the Facts. Here's some tidbits I've picked up from elsewhere:

When will the SDK (Software Developers Kit, including the mapping tools) Be released?
-I've seen Valve quoted as saying that the SDK will be released shortly before the release of Halfe Life 2. HL2 is set for release on November 16th (Yes, this year! Ha!)

(From Valve-erc.com)
Is mapping for Half-Life 2 similar to mapping for Half-Life 1?
-Map editing for the Source engine will be very familiar to those who did mapping for Half-Life. We've always tried to extend rather than reinvent whenever possible. The main challenge will be digesting all the new tools and capabilities to get the most out of them.

The rough structure of the map is still BSP-based, built from brushes, but the details are fleshed out with more props (models) that are built in XSI, Maya, or Max.

World bounds are +/- 16384 units in all directions (Half-Life's world bounds were +/- 4096). Mods can choose their own unit scale for the world. For example, 1 unit could be made to be equal to 1 foot, or to 1/10 of an inch. Physics will be adjusted accordingly, but collisions are only guaranteed to be accurate to 1/32nd of a unit.

We have found that a large part of the cost of creating a Half-Life 2 quality level is in the art production process. Building all the props and textures required for the level of visual quality people saw at E3 consumes a lot of man-hours. As for building a Half-Life 1 quality map in the Source engine, the new tools and entity I/O makes it go much faster than it did on Half-Life 1.

What is the ratio of map units to real-life units?
-Unlike in Half-Life 1, things in Half-Life 2 will look proper when created at a scale of 1:1 (1 unit = 1 inch). It will be much easier to reproduce real-world environments in Half-Life 2. Gordon currently still requires 33 units of clearance to pass through a space (though this also may be subject to change).

Have the compile tools undergone any changes?
-We've created distributed visibility (vvis) and radiosity (vrad) tools to greatly cut compile times. Distributed tools can harness the power of multiple computers (on a LAN, for instance) to increase their processing power.

What tool is used for designing Half-Life 2 levels?
-A new and improved version of the Valve Hammer Editor is used for Half-Life 2 level design. Designers who have used previous versions of Hammer will find using the new Hammer to be a very similar experience. The interface of the program has stayed relatively the same while several new tools have been added.

Does Half-Life 2 use WAD files for textures, like Half-Life 1?
-No. You now apply materials to surfaces instead of textures. Materials (VMT files) can refer to a number of textures (bump maps, base textures, environment maps, etc) which start out as TGA files and are converted to textures (VTF files) via a custom tool before you can use them in the game. Textures and materials are not compiled into WAD files anymore. They are stored as individual files in a materials folder. Optionally, they can be stored in a file system inside a ZIP file. You can embed these ZIP files directly into BSPS if you want.

Does Half-Life 2 support dynamic lighting?
-Yes.

How do 3D skyboxes work? Can I animate a skybox?
-The 3D skybox is a part of the level at a different scale that the rest of the level. You can place entities in the 3D skybox (like flying objects, etc). There is a "normal" skybox on the outside of the 3D skybox as well. We also have animated cloud layers, and I could see a mod going nuts with this. That would be great!

How do you author bump maps?
-We use normal maps in particular. We make these three different ways:

1) Build geometry in XSI, Max, or Maya roughly in a plane and render the normal map directly for world textures. We'll have instructions on how to do this in the SDK.

2) Build a hi-poly model in XSI and use their plug-ins (or similar plug-ins for other packages) to create normal maps.

3) Paint height maps and convert them to normal maps.

What sort of occlusion support do you have?
-We have a PVS system. We also make heavy use of a dynamic occlusion system in outdoor maps.

We have heard many times that the Source engine makes things easier for mod developers. What things are made easier?
Steam for mod distribution, entity help integrated with Hammer, distributed compile tools, open map file format for extensibility, script-driven sound system.... lots of things make Source better for mod developers.
_______________________

For the full set of questions and answers, I strongly encourage you to refer to the helpful FAQ at Valve-erc.com (http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?faq=source_mod_faq)

I don't know about you, but I am very excited by the possibilities: (Disclaimer: Most of the following is educated guesses and conjecture on my part)

It seems that Source provides 'LOD Terrain' IE a kind of mesh that you place within your map that provides an easy way to create curved ground and hills without using Hammer style brushes, wedges etc.

BSPs seem to be placed within the world as objects. This is a lot like the Torque style of mapping. This method allows the benefits of BSP mapping for interiors of buildings (extra internal detail) with the benefits of a large scale exterior terrain.

There are a lot of gaps in our knowledge here. What I really wanted was enough information and the tools to start mapping for DoD:Source today! In anticipation of the release of the SDK tools, we will have to satisfy ourselves with adding information to this thread as it becomes available.

Mike C / Dim

[Edit- fixed some of my major spelling mistakes... Plus thanks (and howdy!) to FD for the sticky!]

Inserted by Mod:
03-28-05:
Map Converter Thread in DoD mapping forums (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43126)
DoD Source Texture thread (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42230)

And we have our first snippet, already!

As posted by Fuzzdad in reply to This thread (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42064) regarding Hammer and the other mapping tools being made available to purchase, rather than being a free download:


It's not going to be sold. It, and all the other tools used in map creation, will be made available whenever Valve releases them.

Here's all the info you should need: http://collective.valve-erc.com/ind...=source_mod_faq

very informative, thanks boss.

i really am not looking forward to added complexity in source maps but its another learning experience as hl1 mapping was.

I stickied this but keep to the topic and don't add in your opinions...speak to factual information on what Source Mapping is...not what you want it to be. I'll delete any post not "sticking" to the rules.

a question i had was, if maps are still created using hammer, obviously the new version for HL2, does that mean old maps can easily be converted to new ones? also does that mean we can start maps now well the brushwork and once the sdk is out we can just use the new hammer to build the entities and add in new effects?

i wondered about if the scale of a dod map will will be the same as it is now, all important questions and if someone knows the answerds please share :D

i read that all the brushes (walls) can be tranferred to the new hammer, but you will have to redo the entitys and textures

thanks for that, reason i ask is because ive got a few maps comming up but i would really like to create them in better detail and just release when dod:s becomes available, the brushwork is most of the map as you know so if it is possible to convert them easily i may focus on creating detailed maps for dod:s, /me prays for the sdk

Well I've got a Qfor this someone might know if not I'll find out later on when dod:s is out.

I'm wondering how they're going to do the origins for models in dod:s? Will they still have them at the base of the model (Silly place IMHO) or will they be in the middle/above the model like some of Trp_Jeds models, ie his trees. Which I think are alot better so that we can place models inside broken buildings, under rubble and generally on uneven terrain.

I have a question on models. Will models placed in the new hammer still be in the .mdl format or will there be a new format for them. I also heard that models will no longer have to be clipped, how will model geometry be controlled, will there be seperate LOD's for model geometry? As far as material types for textures, will it be easier to add material types to textures without editing the materials file? Will each map be able to have it's own material types defined seperately?

I wonder why nobody cared to inform the rest of community ? Busy with playing with new Hammer ? :rolleyes:


Source SDK Tools have been released thru Steam. More info -> http://www.valve-erc.com/srcsdk/

i made a post in the mapping forum about it but then saw one in the main forum, i rarely check there but i deleted my one as it was obselete

To cut story short, Source seems to be based on Quake engine despite Valve claims, so mapping is be VERY similar to current Hammer/HL1. It also keeps some disadvantages of old engine.
Worst news - time to learn modelling in Softimage, without it your level will look average at best.

PS. 10 ragdoll object per level max. :-\.
PS2. Requires active Steam and HL2 licence to run Hammer 4.0 ? WTF valve ?

Originally posted by Craftos

Worst news - time to learn modelling in Softimage, without it your level will look average at best.


I don't see how that's bad news. Models can make your levels look so much better and use so much less resources than plain world geometry.

Need better connection

Need Silver Subscription

Must buy HL2 in 10 days and upgrade.

:angry:

I dont have a credit card to buy it. Pain in the ass. Will have to wait for the boxed version =/

I Tested the new Hammer , but it sux on my System like nintendo ^^
i posted it on Verc here (http://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?a=viewthread&t=465,1099787529,32432&id=722749&b=4986&v=flatold) ..

its not the final Hammer i hope..too many bugs..

Anyone managed to load his DoD map ? It looks like it should work, but Hammer4 refuse to load map file :
"Invalid file type"
"There was a file error"

I am curious, what dod map are you talking about?

Originally posted by spine
I am curious, what dod map are you talking about? Any RMF map for current DoD. I can setup everything like in old Hammer but still he refuse to load. I wonder if it's a bug or support for old format was left (but broken) by mistake. Maybe Hammer4 has some new handy things for DoD1 mapping.


While integrating Hammer and other tools into Steam can be justified, cause they use Steam and Source engine resources, this also means that we won't see open sourcing of these tools and probably no plugins extensions either and that's really bad.

want to load old dod maps with the new hammer? u can simply open the .map files of your map with it. you will have to retexture the whole map though and the scales will be weird, too.

if hammer can not load/convert your old map proceed like this:

- export it with old hammer to .map.
- open the .map file with any text editing program, like word, notepad, crimson editor or what so ever
- go to line 4 or 5 where it says wad "PATH to many wad files here"
- delete this line
- save the file and try to load again.
- you might have to delete other information of your map, too but this way it worked for me.

and for the "i'll have to pay for hl² in order to get hammer issue?": what's the problem? without hl² there's no use in getting the sdk and if you don't have a credit card, you can wait the last ten days, before you get the boxed version :-P

just to confirm, Winston's instructions are dead on and that's how i loaded some .maps in the new Hammer.

texturing is obviously more involved with the engine, so expect a lot of discourse here on how to best tackle it, especially when DoD:Source actually gets released.

for now, you may want to just mess around with the default CS:S textures just to get used to the new functionality of hammer and build/use DoD:S textures later.

edit: also check out this thread on steam forums. Matt and Waldo put some good info to help you get started.

click here (http://www.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=170869)

What I'd really like to see is some more documentation/info regarding the displacement terrain- what I've figured out so far is:

- They are inexpensive to render
- They don't block vis
- If you can see only one triangle of a displacement surface, the entire surface is rendered
- In order to use sew, the base of the various surfaces need to "line up" (I think maybe the base has to be rectangular as well
- You'll get in trouble if 3 or more faces share an edge
- You can sew displacement surfaces to world brushes - the world brush and the base brush of the displacement brush must line up/share a common edge
- All sides of the base brush which are not assigned to a displacement surface are culled
- Painting alpha is a doodle - but I'd like to be able to auto assign which texture to be used depending on angle of the face perhaps - not sure if this is doable, at least I haven't figured out how to yet ...

What I havent tested yet is wether sticking world brushes into the displacement surface negatively affects performance or not - I would expect/hope that it doesn't ...

PS - I'm not guaranteeing that all of the above is 100% correct, I've only played with it a lil bit - if you have additional info or corrections please add to this ...

So there's not much happening in this thread is there ...

Well - I've done some reading on, and some experimenting with displacements - Here is what I came up with, if anyone should be interested:

FD's Subdivide Tut (http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.php?page=tutorials&game=HL2&id=123)

FDs Tunnel Tut (http://www.snarkpit.com/editing.php?page=tutorials&game=HL2&id=124)

Now the first one is not so much a tut as it is more "info on" - but the second one is a full fledged tut, which uses most of the displacement tools - the things it doesn't cover are more or less self explanatory - like smooth ...

good stuff, will really try it out

are there any decent tutorials regarding the phys entities, i can get the props and phys_box working, but i dont know how to do the spring, rope, hinge and the other phys stuff.

read the source sdk online link it talks about them, this might help

This one is not just an answer to TheNomad (but I'm sure you can find what you are looking for in some of these places), but some links to decent sites for everyone who needs to figure out stuff ...

Unfortunately there still aren't all that many HL2 mapping tuts out yet, but the number is growing every day as people figure out the new engine and the new editor, and share their knowledge ...

Here are some places I've searched for the info I've needed so far:

The Snarkpit (http://www.snarkpit.com/)
Great forum - and the tuts are starting to build up.

HL2 World (http://www.hl2world.com/)
Lot's of decent info in their forums - most of the veterans there have been mapping with the leaked beta since forever ago - so they have a head start

HL2 World Knowledge Base (http://www.hl2world.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page)
This is a new - but growing knowledge base assembled by the aforementioned veterans

Mapcore (http://www.mapcore.net/)
In the "Engine" forum there are a couple of threads (one started by Zaphod - long one) which are a very good read

Waldos Cookbook (http://www.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=170869)
Some short but nice info by Waldo

Valve-ERC Collective (http://collective.valve-erc.com/)
Not so many HL2 articles here yet, but they will come - you should check out their forum in the meantime

Hmm, mapcore, so there are they hiding now. :D

I just realised that as models and maps share a common texture format in Source, some of the modelling tools I wrote will probably be of use to you mappers too.

Most of these were posted in MSA but I dont know how many of your browse that forum so I'd thought I'd post the link here just so you know about it:

http://www.wunderboy.org/3d_games/utils/sourcetools.php

Various VTF texture viewers, import plugins for 3D programs and VTFTool which replaces VTEX & VTF2TGA with a handy GUI app.

This .Tga explorer extention is more than handy. You can now have a thumbnail preview of sky maps [dod/gfx/env] if you dont have that already for Half-Life 1.

This also will come in handy since .Tga's are the files that need to be converted to the Vtf for source. This helps quite a bit for everyone. A must download for Source mappers.

Download the .Tga Thumbnail Windows shell extension (http://greggman.com/downloads/thumbplug_tga1.10.exe)

I posted this on the Insurgency Mod forums, but since I talk in a generic manner, I wanted to post this in here too. I posted this on this thread (http://forums.insurgencymod.net/index.php?showtopic=4198) about computer requirements for mapping for Source.

I hope this will be useful for someone.

Do you guys know that Valve gave medium-to-low-end computers to their mappers during the development of HL2? And you know why? If they had high-end computers, when they would test the maps, they would get good framerates even if the map was not optimised and they would think that the map is fine frame-rate wise. But with lower-end computers, they had to optimize the maps as much as they could, so they could get an average minimum frame-rate on every part of the maps. But then, I'm talking about work computers and not personal computers, so it's not very good to limit ourselves to crappy computers just because of that... Maybe the best option is to set an average minimum frame-rate when one is mapping, like, for example, if with this high-end PC I only get 20 fps on this certain part of the map, then something is wrong and I need to optimise it.

Do you understand wath I'm talking about?

Now I get why it took 6 years to develop.

... so ... when is the fgd gonna be available for us mappers? ;)

Originally posted by krenshala
... so ... when is the fgd gonna be available for us mappers? ;)

the 26th most likely, ie the day its released

Mugsy already confirmed it would be in the preload, therefore we'll be able to get to work before release day. Just not try our maps...

Does anyone know if DoD Source settings will be provided in SDK?? or do we need to create the settings ourselves. Looks to me like we need an .fdg file or something!

Nomy

Originally posted by (4THIDUSA) SSG
read the source sdk online link it talks about them, this might help

http://www.snarkpit.net/index.php :D