I have been playing on a lot of custom maps lately and have noticed there is little if any warning for a lot of the enemy spawn areas.

There is a slowly appearing "You are entering enemy spawn area" text that shows up like the server admin advertisements that when in the thick of things you don't worry about until you are in a safe enough place to read, so you end up dead or in prison.

If the map is one you are very familiar with you know where the bad areas are, but if it is a map you are learning, especialy one with a cap or documents right next to the enemy spawn, there should be some visual barrior to let the player know he isn't suposed to go any farther, like the mound of dirt on caen, for example.

The most frusterating is on dod_d-day as an allie. There is a flag right next to the axis spawn, but even playing mostly axis on this map, I have not memorized all the rooms. I just run in a direction until i see something I remember then go from there, but as allies, just trying to find that last flag is dangerous, there is no distinction between the axis spawn and the rest of the plain walled corridors, you just all of a sudden are there and poof, gone!!
:angry:


For that map, I dont suggest a mound of dirt, or a door, but somthing as simple as a color change, like from grey to brown or even just a black and yellow warning track line like you see in some factories would be nice and not change the map play at all (other than the snickering mapper watching the unsuspecting allies getting insta-gibbed.)

:PARROT: give the player a chance to keep away from danger by letting him know there is danger visualy, in the map, not just a pop-up warning that usualy is too late to help before the auto-MGs or the star-trek teleport into a jail takes you out of play.

See the screen shot for an idea of how to help players know where not to go.

:mod: (I just did a test as I was making this screen shot, and found that you are in the pit of death before the text fully appears on your screen, as in it is still comming to 100% opacity when you get teleported, and the text is down and inconspicious in play, especialy if you are scared of getting shot)

:PARROT:hi

I don't think this matter is serious enough to release a whole new update of dod_charlie. It happened to me a few times too, and I didn't like it, but to make a barrier (or visual warning) like that ... I don't know mate, it isn't excactly realistic :rolleyes:

killer tomato:carrot:

Official maps could easily have this kinda thing inputed, however, it really is up to the mapper as Im sure there is no standard requirements really.

Id suggest putting this on the 1.3 Feedback area and also PM'ing the team members if you feel strongly enough about it. You'd be surprised at the results you can get ;)

Understand where u are comming from but realy, this only happens to u a coupple of times then u learn anyways so....

Originally posted by BillyNair
(other than the snickering mapper watching the unsuspecting allies getting insta-gibbed.)

But thats the fun of doing it!

my advice to you:

download the map before hand and run around in it, go up to places you think might be the spawn and if you die, you know not to go there. simple as that, learn before hand if it really matters that much to you. if you can't remember where the spawn points are after dying a couple times then you have some problems :)

Most of the new/redone stock maps make use of barbed wire as a visual indicator of respawn areas/exits. Whenever we host maptests at CoJ, I recommend the same.

lucky I am behind a firewall...


This thread got nothing for 3 days, then someone posts a flame and the whole post ignites in a burst of fire (except Shane).

This was a suggestion for the NEW maps, ones that are being worked on, not a request for updates of currents ones.

I hope that I am not the only player in DOD who playes a new map once it is downloaded from the server I am connected to:
#- map is over a new map starts
#- it is a map I don't have
#- I let it download while I eat some food
#- map is finished downloading, sounds of gunfire fill my speakers
#- I have 2 choices:
A) Click OK, and start playing (that is why I loged onto steam tonight)
B) Disconnect, find the map discription on google.com, read about it for about 45 minutes, start a LAN game and play as each side for about an hour to learn the map and all it's qwerks, restart my computer (RAM gets sucked out when using Internet Explorer), re-log into Steam, find the server I was on, oops, it is another NEW map, repeat step B)

So am I the weird one that choses A) ??!?! or are there a few other strange ones here too so I don't feel alone?

Look this word up on m-w.com "cognitive" before proceding:

Why place more strain on the cognitive load than necessary while learning a new map, it is hard enough sometimes to remember which way is north, much less where all the spawns are for the enemy.

I am sure you all were opposed to the fuel injector saving gas and improving performance too.

It was a suggestion to mappers to make them more user friendly and when they are user friendly people like them, and when people like them, they play them more, and since these mappers are not getting paid a lot of money, a map that is played a lot is probably their biggest reward.

i dont think this looks very nice. best way IMHO as has been done since the creation of spawn protection is to actually learn the map - if you die a few times in the process who cares its just a game. I like maps like chemille with the only spawn protection being on the ramps...not 20 meters away from them.

learn the map.

We're pushing to have barbed wire as the primary indicator of a spawn "do not pass" barrier. Look at all the new maps plus Glider, Sturm, etc. Eventually we'll have a standard that everyone will recognize.

thanks fuzzdad for posting a reply that does not signify fear of something new, that improvement is not always bad.

Back in the old days we learned maps with out a mini-map, yet there is still a mini-map...

Back in the old days we learned how to reload a MG with out that ah_dog, yet we still got a dog...

Back in the old days we learned where the enemy was by reading the text saying that a flag was captured, yet we still have the flag indicators...

Back in the old days we learned where our teammates were without map icons, yet there is still map icons...

Back in the old days we learned how to communicate with other players using voice_commands like "Grenade!" and "Flank Left!" or even stooping to extreme such as typing, yet we still got in-game-voice...

What is so wretched about adding a minor visual que to help players learn your map quicker?? <<-- please answer this before you post another scared-little-kid answer "learn the map on your own"

:mod:

I am new to the Mapping forum, but I thought it would have been more mature than the "RaNd0M nonsense" forums. In the MSA forums, when someone makes something that could use improvement, they are told, they say "thanks, I will try that", they try it, they improve it, everyone wins.

Maps are what makes or breaks a game, even if the game play rules, if the maps are not fun, people usualy stop playing it (Ask Waldo how much he like DOD after playing dod_omaha as his first map)
And, yes, DOD is now retail so successful maps are now relevant. If you mappers are just screwing around, and only want to play with your friends, cool, but if you have any desire to be taken seriously, you will need to learn how to listen to suggestions and rather than telling your users to be better users, try to see if maybe someone other than yourself might have an IQ higher than 68.

:PARROT:
As for killer tomato's "it isn't excactly realistic" , what is realistic about "StarTrek" like teleports to far away dungens in 1943?

What about RaNd0M's "i dont think this looks very nice."... that warning track was a quick, non-intrusive WAD addition that anyone, with or with out skills or time to make models or add doors to implement this idea.

A couple current maps that have a visual barriors:
dod_anzio
dod_avalanche
dod_caen
dod_charlie
dod_chemille
dod_donner
dod_escape
dod_falaise
dod_flash
dod_flugplatz
dod_forest
dod_glider
dod_jagd
dod_kalt
dod_kraftstoff
dod_merdert
dod_northbound
dod_saints
dod_zalec

these might not be as cool as some maps siron or RaNd0M are working on right now, but I have seen these maps on a few servers with some people playing on them and I don't remember anyone complaining that the visual barriors distract from the atmosphere.

I say it is safe to assume that if barriors were added to your maps, people would not refuse to play them because they didn't look very nice or unrealistic, that is IF you knew how.

thanks fuzzdad for posting a reply that does not signify fear of something new, that improvement is not always bad.

It wasn't new, I wasn't scared. :sheep:

As for killer tomato's "it isn't excactly realistic" , what is realistic about "StarTrek" like teleports to far away dungens in 1943?

How about learning to create senteces that extualy make sence ...

Anyway, why are you so terribly insulted? You wanted to share your thaughts and when you have desires in that direction you should also be able to accept not all thaughts are the same ....

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings but to call my reply a 'flame' ... Come on!

Well, guess I'll use a barbed wire for dod_holland then :rolleyes:

tomato

my post was not a "flame" :(

WTF are u on about!
U calling 7 replies a flame war?
WHY ARE U ATTACKING PEOPLE HERE!
Nobody answered your post with a negative reply,
if you think so, you havent been around much!

Jeesus, if you think that because people have a different opinion
or in this case, don't think your idea is that important, they are
inmature kids who dislike anything new, you've got a problem!

I'm 37 myself and always answeres any post with an answere
I think is sober and in my own opinion.
I am sorry I diddent think that the spawn issue was such a big deal, that is becaus of what I already told you in my first post!
You learn it quickly.

And a little tip for the future is not to start of your first posts
on any new forum, with either a "super grand" idea or by
pissing on people that are allready "mature" members!:mad:

NOW, NO STUPID REPLIES JUST SIT BACK AND TAKE NOTES!:mod:

Originally posted by BillyNair
So am I the weird one that choses A) ??!?! or are there a few other strange ones here too so I don't feel alone?


People that make maps need to play on public server every now and then.

You are so right about this. the average players just connects, downloads the map and plays. Developers of maps need to understand this. The average plays also takes no notice of the map discription, not their fault but you are foolish to expect them to notice it.

Someone mentioning how easy it to go off-line and look at a map doesn't really understand how real DoD players play the game. screw the clans they don't make up real players. ( Not a flame, just something I notice about the UK DoD scene, most public servers or servers run by clans have mostly casual players on them.)

So many times people join my server and say "I've never played this map before, is it new?". I then go on to explane it's a custom map and the server has a few custom maps, "cool" is the usual response :D

I digress ...

Most actully expect the instant death when nearing enemy spawn, even I do it on maps I don't know. When I die I know I'm near enemy spawn, simple really.


Saying that, BillyNair's idea is simple really, dunno about Fuzzdad's, barbed wire is used in other places on maps.

there are many non-lethal ways to stop enemies getting into spawns, ie:

-team-specific teleports, one-way or team-specific doors, a trigger_push, a simple drop-off, etc

or a combo, whatever fits the map. The ever-popular trigger_hurt is just the simplest and most entity-conserving method

sorry about yesterday's posts... My ex took my boy last night and she was being a :dog:, so I came in the forums already on edge and defensive, so when what I thought was just a friendly suggestion got a response of "learn the maps" ... I interpreted the replys to be saying:
"You are a n00b and don't deserve our respect!! We refuse to make learning maps easier for you!!!" and I snapped and took all my frustration out on you guys.

You might not have ment your replys like that and like I said, I do appologize, it was realy uncharacteristic of me.

I hope this does not spawn a rash of maps with secret black holes that swallow you from the middle of the map into oblivion if there is a "Billy" in your name.

No problem mate :)

tomato

Originally posted by BillyNair
I hope this does not spawn a rash of maps with secret black holes that swallow you from the middle of the map into oblivion if there is a "Billy" in your name.
He he he... :D
No worry's mate,
thats ok, just chill a bit next time, before u type;)