this is a map i have been working on for the past few weeks, i wanted to make sure i would actually finish it before posting a WIP, and so far i am happy with what i have done. there are still lots of spots that need tweaking, as you can see by the high r_speeds in some spots. its not consistantly high, mostly just when you stand in a certain spot and look a certain way, but i will try to fix those errors. there are also some high e_poly counts that im working to fix. the houses currently have no models or lighting, thats the main thing i have left to do. also, the map will have americans, not british soldiers.

===============

DOD_VEGHEL by Kyle "Siron" Florence (kyle@dork.cx)
September 22, 1944, Netherlands

The paratroopers of the First Allied Airborne Army were to drop into the Netherlands and secure a corridor from Eindhoven north to Arnhem. After successful jumps and most objectives complete, they were given the new objective of keeping Hell's Highway open
despite german counterattacks.

On September 22, the German forces launched their first counterattack at the town of Veghel, Netherlands. The Axis forces hoped to cut the road and stop the flow of Allies north.

--------------------------------------------

Allied Objectives:
- Capture the 5 flag points

Axis Objectives:
- Capture the 5 flag points

--------------------------------------------

Textures by: Arjan "IR" Bak, Daniel "Kleinluka" Luka,
Philip "Blazeer" Klevestav.

===============

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0000.jpg - near allied spawn point overlooking their first flag (its behind the street light)

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0001.jpg - near allied spawn looking at the road to the church.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0002.jpg - looking at the warehouse from the allied side. semi-high e_poly due to models in warehouse (any ideas how to fix this? maybe having a few rooms inside the warehouse?)

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0003.jpg - same spot as the previous picture, looking back towards the church road. high r_speeds happen when standing all the way back against the wall and looking in that direction (need to fix, but not sure how yet)

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0004.jpg - the warehouse from the shed inside of it.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0006.jpg - the alley running inbetween buildings and underneath the road, comes up in the warehouse shed.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0007.jpg looking up the alley's stairs.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0008.jpg - one of a few courtyards, this one near the allied first flag, need to add some detail in here. that fence is breakable.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0009.jpg - the road to the church looking at the back-way into the churchyard. minor adjustments needed on those bushes, and the house on the left is going to be opened up.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0010.jpg - looking down the road to the right of the church, one of the main streets, needs some tweaking to reduce r_speeds..

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0011.jpg - back-way into the churchyard.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0012.jpg - in front of the church, might need something more here.. not sure.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0013.jpg - looking at the church. i didnt take any pictures inside because its too dark right now, ill take some when i add lighting.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0014.jpg - in the church tower looking out the front window.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0015.jpg - axis road to the church, heading towards spawn area and first flag.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0016.jpg - other side of the building in the previous picture, closer to axis spawn and first flag.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0017.jpg - axis first flag, gotta add some kind of detail around here..

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0018.jpg - destroyed building near the warehouse and axis spawn.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0019.jpg - looking out the window of a house near the warehouse.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0020.jpg - patio near the alley.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0021.jpg - courtyard near axis first flag.. thinking of putting some crates to allow allies to cap from courtyard.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0022.jpg - in a house looking at church, kind of high r_speeds but can't really do anything about it.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0023.jpg - axis spawn looking back.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0024.jpg - axis spawn looking down the road.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0025.jpg - here comes the worst r_speeds in the map - first shot of two.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0026.jpg - AGHHH, lol. im taking out the middle exit from axis spawn, dont know if it will help though, dont really know what to do about this.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0027.jpg - i dont know why i took this shot.. just a random shot by the allied spawn exit #2.

============

i appreciate any help / comments / criticism you can give me, it is all going to be helpful. after i fix all this stuff (which might take some time) i will go into a playtesting stage and then release the beta :)

Looks pretty cool, I think it would do well with an atmosphere like dod_thunder once had...with an orangy sky, rain and dreary red/orange/rust colours.

Im very happy to see see a map in holland. i think it looks very good so far, a few points of constructive criticism u might find either usefull or anoying:

the bottom of ur church is kinda weird. its build on poles. kinda weird.

the map looks kinda the same and dead in some places. try to make it look a lil more alive by for ecample add more to the roofs like windos or chimmnys. try makeing som non-90-degreed angles. try makeing the grass a lil less flat. i know thes things will hurt ur r_speeds, but u can try to make it work.

maby try giving us an overview of the map.

well, that all i can think off now, good luck finishing this map, i does look realistic to me. just take a look at this photo (http://nooo.atlantis.brabantarchieven.nl/atlantis/medium/1cbe550/66f10/66f10.JPG) and this screenshot (http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0014.jpg) .

im realy looking forward to a release.

Nice work...keep it going.

Looks very promising. :)

Once you get it to a playable state, if you'd like somewhere to playtest it, please let me know.

Originally posted by Gorbachev
Looks pretty cool, I think it would do well with an atmosphere like dod_thunder once had...with an orangy sky, rain and dreary red/orange/rust colours.

I agree. Try a different style of visuals. Dont copy other maps because you may like it. Be creative (looks a lot like Diversion). We need more maps with a moody ww2 feel to it. Lots of destruction and good use of sounds.

thanks guys, it will be awhile until final release as i want to perfect this map first. i've been told the church doesnt look like a church you'd find in the netherlands.. so if someone else could varify this i will change it. definately going to be tweaking a lot of things.. Mr. Me: thank you so much for your comments, i will work on making things a little more unique (but keep in mind, r_speed's are kinda high as is, but i will be doing major overhauls im some areas). the axis spawn area, and the area in front of the spawn are being changed as we speak, ill keep you guys updated on the changes. gorbachev: it originally had rain, but i couldn't find a good sky to go with it, so if you know of one don't hesitate to tell me the name :)

neutrino: yes, it does look like diversion in parts, i agree. im going to try to change a few things (i would like to alter the alley in some way.. but cant think of anything at the moment) and maybe fix up the warehouse differently, not sure though. also take in mind that they are both based around the same general area, and overall operation (market garden), so they will look similar.

nice work boss ;) give us a yell if you need a host for the file when you release :>

yes, very nice looking add me to your list of mirrors, will host and put on server

thanks guys, i would really love to hear more criticisms, but first ill let you know what i've already been advised, or changes i plan to make.

1) a lot of areas seem too open, i plan to fix this, in some areas changing the road.. making it windy.

2) the axis fountain: too enclosed, taking out building on left and making road wind around another building.

3) fixing some of the architecture - making more variation in building height and design.

4) adding more details (would love to hear ideas for the courtyards) - adding things inside houses, and lighting

5) fixing axis spawn area

6) adding stuff down in the alley

i really need some input on areas that you dont like or think look funny. also some ideas for the warehouse other than a few crates and a fuel truck.

Overall, too much bricks :). Maybe you could change few houses in one section to more classic colors ? In holland even sidewalks and streets are build from bricks ?
First few pics +0010: streets seem to me kind of plain, i know there is rubble here but maybe it needs more variety.
pic 004 - maybe you should combine boxes into single shapes, hmm I see only truck and flag, what from such high epolies ? show more of this area. There are some things you could add here but they are models so reduce epolies first.
pic 009 - house on the left looks weird to me. 1st floor loos too heavy on this wooden support (and ground floor is too high comparing to upper floor.
pic 0013 - such tower looks highly unnatural (stone walls kept by wooden parts)
pic 0014,15 - lighting looks like full day, but sky is dawn/early evening. For such sky lighting should be more orange and a bit darker. Better get full day sky with flat hills not mountains.
pic 0017 - this fountain(?) looks bad. I mean is low detailed and edges of shape looks artificial. DoD hasn't any model fountain, you could replace it with some statue or well from dod_saints (it's FPS killer though).
pic 0020 - steps should be made from other texture, angled bricks doesn't look right here.
pic 0025, 26 - hard to say without seeing rmf or at least BSP file. There is probably some "hole" here in world/sky brushes thru which engine peeps to other side.

yeah, streets are kind of plain at the moment, i just ran out of thoughts of what i could place in them.

pic 4 - there are also 2 jeeps on the other side that you cant see. this whole warehouse is going to be a little smaller, and the jeeps are going to be removed (reducing epoly)

pic 9 - now that you mention it, it does look kind of funny, although thats the way the texture was made (i cut half-way through the texture to make the upper section). ill mess around with it.

pic 13 - yeah, after someone else mentioned that above i turned them to stone, haven't seen it after compile but it should look better.

pic 14/15 - im going to be messing with lighting / sky a lot, should look better next compile. ;)

pic 17 - the fountain would probably look better with better textures, but i couldn't find one.. ill try a statue and see how it looks.

pic 20 - already fixing, though i dont know if i have a good texture for it.

pic 25/26 - this area is going under a major overhaul right now, so we'll see how bad it is when im done with that :)

thanks for your comments craftos! very appreciated.

i was thinking of putting a crashed glider in the warehouse, but im not sure if there were any gliders there that could've crashed.

Nice work man :)

Are you using the textures from escape by any chance,
and where can i get them?

yes, im using the dod_escape textures. you can get them by using GCFscape and extracting them from the day of defeat.gcf file (steam folder)

Don't worry about all the details yet...get the map to a playable condition and playtest it...regardless of what you read in here the proof is in the pudding...dod_escape has open roads and there's not a lot of clutter around and it works fine...more clutter, more models = more lag. There's actually very little rubble in railroad and harrington and both maps are loved by the clan community so think about this one item first: Gameplay.

Gameplay first...details, textures and cool stuff second. ALWAYS.

thats what im aiming for, despite what people keep telling me. if i can get the gameplay element down FIRST, then i can add detail to areas knowing im not screwing anything up.

I would reccomend posting on Kustom Kettle forums or somewhere else also. 90% of the "constructive criticism" you will get here is "make things less open", "add more rubble", "destroy things", "give it a more war feel", etc.

Looks nice, I would suggest playing around with lighting and sky to give it a different feel than escape or the custom map trust. Although trust is different in ways from escape. Good work.

here's some screens with a donner-like atmosphere. also shows part of the updated warehouse area (and fixed axis spawn). still needs work. next stop is fixing the church area because the roads are kind of long and boring and r_speeds need reducing.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_31/dod_veghel0029.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_31/dod_veghel0030.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_31/dod_veghel0031.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_31/dod_veghel0032.jpg

That second picture (30) has horible planks. It should be thinner and use a broken wood texture (used in falaise, flugplatz...ect). Just fix it up.

very good job, finally a map that really looks like Holland..:-)

i like it. but perhaps make the windows a bit less dark ... so those infamous campers cant just sit there all day without getting noticed lol. and make it US vs AXIS ... dont ruin it with the brits lol. sry im just not a fan of the brits ... major disadvantage vs the axis imo

yeah, i was just testing with the brits, it is going to be us vs axis (as you can see in the latest screenshots). the windows won't be dark, because i haven't added lighting and models to the houses yet, so that will be fixed :D

right now im trying to make a few boring areas better and work on atmosphere. the map is 90% done and almost ready for playtest (hopefully in a few days i can have a playtest).

Originally posted by siron
yeah, i was just testing with the brits, it is going to be us vs axis (as you can see in the latest screenshots). the windows won't be dark, because i haven't added lighting and models to the houses yet, so that will be fixed :D

right now im trying to make a few boring areas better and work on atmosphere. the map is 90% done and almost ready for playtest (hopefully in a few days i can have a playtest).


noooo british. British are fine. Why doesnt anyone like them? oooh, they dont have an mg, big woop. There rifle rocks, the bren rocks, sten rocks...piat is the same. and plus i love the model replacements i got for them ;)

the sten rocks? your kidding right?

The Sten is just a Thompson...exact same coding...

well neutrino, the main reason is because (although there were british soldiers at the veghel battle), the main defensive was put up by the 101st airborne division of the US.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0004.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/july_29/dod_veghel0007.jpg

looks promising... but (and maybe its just me being protective) but i thought i was looking at pics from diversion in these shots... the warehouse with the fuel tanker... the ladder going up to a overhead walkway.. the garage half up with the hexagonal shaped roller above it... the alley way with the arches... and a ramp leading up and around...

i think im just paraniod...

Yeah, I thougt the same thing . . .

you have a point darkwing, but you must realize something. how many maps have warehouses? how many maps have arched areas such as that? if the textures used weren't both from dod_escape, would these still be similar? yes, much of the inspiration for this map came from yours (as well as others), but really this map is nothing like diversion (i guess you'd just have to see the whole thing). im gonna upload an overview tomorrow, maybe it will clear things up.

the warehouse was based around the one in your map because i liked the looks and how you had it set up, i felt it could be a good place for fighting and not spawning. it contains the same things as yours because there really isn't that much you can put in a warehouse.. if you can think of something better for me to put, im all for it.

the alley is really nothing like yours.. it goes into a sewer which runs under the street and comes up in the warehouse. the only thing that looks remotely similar is the archways down there, and like i mentioned before, dont think your map was the first to use that. (look at dod_merderet/sturm for example).

i dont know what you mean by a ramp leading up and around.. anyways, i see where you are coming from but i dont feel like i really stole anything from your map (other than the idea for a warehouse). if you want i could include your name in the text file as a main source of inspiration. im not here to pick fights or cause trouble, just to make a good map. sorry if i made you feel violated in some way..

hey, thats looking really promising Siron, keep the good work up! Personally, I don't have any suggestions to make - I think its good as it is!

oh, dont get me wrong, im actually quite honoured. No negative feelings towards you at all.

Originally posted by ender
90% of the "constructive criticism" you will get here is "make things less open", "add more rubble", "destroy things", "give it a more war feel", etc.
What else we can say if we got only screenshots, :kitty:

thanks darkwing. craftos: its coming along, hopefully will be playtest-able in a few days :P

EDIT: heres a few more pics of updated things..

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_1/dod_veghel0000.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_1/dod_veghel0001.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_1/dod_veghel0002.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_1/dod_veghel0003.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_1/dod_veghel0004.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_1/dod_veghel0005.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_1/dod_veghel0006.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_1/dod_veghel0007.jpg

and finally an overview (although a little outdated because i've added a few more things since this screenshot)

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_1/dod_veghel_overview.jpg

Originally posted by Craftos
What else we can say if we got only screenshots, :kitty:

Tons. First off not every map needs to be destroyed with rubble. Suggest opening up of a house for a strategic point, suggest ideas for gameplay, etc.'

Edit: Nice layout, looks like the clanners will like this one. Maybe they will stop whining :D

Originally posted by ender
Tons. First off not every map needs to be destroyed with rubble. Suggest opening up of a house for a strategic point, suggest ideas for gameplay, etc.' These ^^ are not even grams, I don't see any your suggestions in any post here :\.
1) Map has some rubble, so why not suggest more and long clear streets are always pain in the a. in DoD.
2) Gameplay suggestions without real map are pointless. Even overview does not give you ideas about where paths are going.

Originally posted by Craftos
These ^^ are not even grams, I don't see any your suggestions in any post here :\.
1) Map has some rubble, so why not suggest more and long clear streets are always pain in the a. in DoD.
2) Gameplay suggestions without real map are pointless. Even overview does not give you ideas about where paths are going. You can spot alot of major flaws without an overview, and this map seems to have a decent cross-section. Both teams have at least 2 distinct routes from spawn, and it looks like many crossovers. Looks like it could be a great map.

But i see a bit of a potential problem with the brush scaling. The textures are fairly good, but some of the railings, low-walls and cobblestones that seem out of place. It's like you made and tested the map on WON, then switched to newer DoD version with the lower PoV. Squish down a few of those brushes, make the player feel bigger and your map will be alot more immersive.
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_1/dod_veghel0004.jpg
if you make that one layer of bricks around the tree it'll look nice.


This map kinda reminds me of devastation spread out, long streets... should be fun.

new screenshots, no overview as im changing stuff still. r_speeds around the church are driving me crazy and im having trouble fixing them.. ive reworked the area 3 times now and they are still high (1000+ when you stand in certains spots). im getting frustrated with it but im not giving up.

i liked the map better when it was bright without rain, which one did you guys like better?

screenshots:

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_5/dod_veghel_b10000.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_5/dod_veghel_b10001.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_5/dod_veghel_b10002.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_5/dod_veghel_b10003.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_5/dod_veghel_b10004.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_5/dod_veghel_b10005.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_5/dod_veghel_b10006.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_5/dod_veghel_b10007.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_5/dod_veghel_b10008.jpg

Looks GREAT!

Map looks great, I like it with rain...:)

i rekon early morning overcast with rain would be noice for this map :D

well, that was the original plan, but i couldn't find a good sky for it :(

The skybox doesn't seem to fit the lighting now for some reason. Or maybe it doesn't fit the rain.
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_5/dod_veghel_b10005.jpg

Maybe there's a sky with darker clouds.

Lookin nice! Almost like it just got done raining hard.

most likely the final layout:

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_7/dod_veghel_b1_overview.jpg

getting close to finishing, still need to tweak some stuff and add lighting to a few houses. i also want to add smoke to the tanks but i dont know how, if anyone knows of a tutorial or something let me know.

its an entity env_sprite i believe and look for the smoke sprite

I love the new pics..

yeah i already tried that random, the sprites are only puffs of smoke, not like the kind i need. i heard someone say the smoke on donner was a particle effect, but i dont know if thats correct.

try particle shoorter then :>

yeah that would be right too because cl_particlefx 0 controls the smoke on donner

these are the last screenshots you will see before it goes beta (im going to do some playtesting, probably within the clan, but if i cant get enough people there ill let you guys know)

overview: http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0013.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0011.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0014.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0015.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0016.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0017.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0018.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0019.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0020.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0021.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0022.jpg

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_veghel/august_9/dod_veghel_test0023.jpg

slightly high e_poly, i dont know if i can really fix it without taking away from the map, but ill try. the rest will basically be the same.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Very nice, can't wait to try it.

okay! time for playtesting. if you want to help out (play in the playtest, or host the playtest) just say so here or email me: kyle(at)dork(dot)cx (just replace those with @ and . respectively :P)

nobody wants to playtest or host the playtest? geez.. what support lol

if you would like i can host a playtest for you in australia, get an HLTV in there so you can watch or view the demo later, i wanna help out on this one because it looks really good. let me know Travis@expesports.com

Send me the files I will put it on my custom server's rotation, server is in Dallas, email to 4thidusa@4thidusa.com

thanks guys, ill take you up on your offer random. SSG: after the playtest i will send you the file (incase i need to change some things).

EDIT: all i have left to do is make the overview.. which im working on now :P

Good work siron, this has really improved since the first pics. Looking forward to checking it out in game. ;)

Any idea on a BETA release?..:-D

a few days to a few weeks depending on when the playtest is held and what needs to be fixed.

You'll be getting an AIM from me concerning play testing.

ill hook up a playtest this week as soon as you hook me up with the files ect and we can talk about the finer details somewhere, irc me! what irc you use ill come find you gamesurge?

yeah gamesurge, #iam-clan or #dod

you'll have to give me your aim name because mine wont let anyone message me.

perhaps if we used aim in this country i might do that.

I live in Ohio and have roadrunner, which is better than some T1.

Aim: uLo5e

i own several machines connected to a 100mbit pipe........

random, i have the zip file i just need to find you.. lol

email it to me Travis@EXPESports.com or put it on the interwebs somewhere secret :D yer happy to do it just email me the zip

ok but id really like to talk to you first about the details etc.. do you have msn or aim or can you get in irc or anything :\

i messaged you on irc yesturday but because of the time difference you were asleep or work/school or something but yer email correspondance owns

im going to be gone for a week, so no playtest until then, sorry guys

Playtesting went better than planned, everyone seemed to like the map :)

it is very evenly based. you can read more about it at the link below:

http://spies.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=13985

anyways, im moving to my college tomorrow so i dont know when i will get my internet up or have time to work on the map, but im going to make a few changes before i publicly release the beta.

great, looking forward to this map ;) keep on it i think the finnished product will be awesome