Alright, after about a months mapping void in my life, I've struck up a brand new map! dod_carentan will almost completely replicate the town from the show itself. While I do realise that there already is a dod_carentan, It's just a temporary name until I can dream up something stellar :D Here's some Hammer 3.5 screenshots. I would include the field, but the gemotery is indistinguishable in hammer with my solid colour textures...

http://www.lastgreatwar.com/buffer/NightSiren/Mapping/!wipcarentan.jpg
http://www.lastgreatwar.com/buffer/NightSiren/Mapping/!wipcarentan2.jpg

I'll post the reference screenshots when I get home from work. Feedback please :D

Looks good so far. One thing, I doubt there would be an allied truck there considering the allies were attacking :)

PS. Leper Messiah is a great song :)

i agree with the above comment, very detailed. looks good.

its too detailed. seriously, its gonna kill r_speeds if your wasting all these polies on window frames and chimneys.

and if your going to try to replicate the town exactly, good luck. its something for hl2.

Well it does look good, but:

[list]

Its way too detailed, if thats the first bit thats attacked it wont see that much prolonged action and the initial burst will be horrific on FPS.

I believe theres a rule saying WIP threads must not contain in-Hammer shots

Carentan in BoB was only a street or two filmed cleverly from a few angles to make it look bigger, you wont get a whole realistic town from that episode.

Some things I did not add earlier...

- The allied truck is in fact an Opel Blitz truck that's destroyed, hammer doesn't do seperate Body shots.

-The r_speeds are not that bad, 600 when i walk down the street, suggested max is 800 correct? Plus before I begin to texture it I'll be sure to reduce polies like mad

-I'M NOT JUST USING THE MOVIE SCENES
I'm addin' on about 3x more than there actually is, including a back field in which will be explained in the following...

The Layout

Essentially, the main focus of the map is to capture the town and hold it. The Axis will spawn in the town at places of strategic importance. The Allies will try and break through the main lines of resistance and force their way into the town, while the Axis will try to defend key points in the town. Should the Axis lose the town, their spawn will be pushed back into hedgerows, where they must try and attack and recapture the village through a large field. Should the Axis recapture the village, the Allies spawn will be forced back to it's original position, and the Axis will once again, respawn in the town.

Timelimit for the map can be tested once the map is nearing completion. I'm guessing 20 to 30 minutes will give ample time for the town to change hands a few times.

_______________________________

I believe theres a rule saying WIP threads must not contain in-Hammer shots

Sorry, I know now ;)

_______________________________

With that said, I'll leave it open again for comments and suggestions...

PS. NO ONE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT R_SPEEDS, i got it under control :D

600 for two houses and a court yard may be alot. plus, it looks like you arent even done that area and u havent clipped the models yet.

Yes, I did clip the models, i just deleted the things for screenshot purpose. It'll be fine, don't worry about it.

well if the r_speeds are handled well, then keep going

lose some detail in the brushes, and bring it out with the textures.

Too many windows equal too many brushes.

I love to have that in dod but for the main road with all kinds of action, its too detailed.

Its all in the textures. If you need a bit of a help PM me, im bored.

sounds promising

Yea, it just sound promising, great job so far, even though i havnt seen much the layout sounds cool and your confident so keep up the work. Anyway, question, what if allies capture the town, are they suppose to hold it till the timer runs out or can they capture the field and end the round. Doing the latter means the allies would have to go into the field, perhaps you could, if possible, allow a timer to activate once town been takin, the timer begins counting down, once it reaches 0 the allies win?

PS: The truck, like what someone else said, i don't know if the 101st would of even had the truck there since it was so early in the invasion, and they paratroopers.

PS: The truck, like what someone else said, i don't know if the 101st would of even had the truck there since it was so early in the invasion, and they paratroopers.

As stated in an earlier post by myself, it's a GERMAN Opel Blitz truck, and it's destroyed (like in the show). (It's just that the model shows up as the first "body" model)

And for the field thing, I was thinking of just that. Allies would have to call in Tank or artillery re-inforcements and it took like 15 minutes to arrive or something. If only I could script modeled tanks rolling through the field and blowing stuff up...well I can do the artillery with ease at least :D

Please post ideas on how the timer should work.

I'd actually say keep going w/the detail. One thing in Source that will come to the front is how detailed we'll be able to make levels...on par with Single Player CoD. My guess is you're still a few months from release so keep up w/the detail. Gabe and Doug have said in articles that HL2 should be released end-of-summer...which is only a few months out...once HL2 releases you'll have all the tools you'll need to transistion your DoD 1.X map over (Waldo says it takes 4-5 hours to port a map over). Make all the buildings but for now don't worry so much about the terrain...you'll be able to do some pretty cool stuff in Source w/terrain from what I've been reading up on some of the HL2 webbies. Good luck!

Originally posted by FuzzDad
I'd actually say keep going w/the detail. One thing in Source that will come to the front is how detailed we'll be able to make levels...on par with Single Player CoD. My guess is you're still a few months from release so keep up w/the detail. Gabe and Doug have said in articles that HL2 should be released end-of-summer...which is only a few months out...once HL2 releases you'll have all the tools you'll need to transistion your DoD 1.X map over (Waldo says it takes 4-5 hours to port a map over). Make all the buildings but for now don't worry so much about the terrain...you'll be able to do some pretty cool stuff in Source w/terrain from what I've been reading up on some of the HL2 webbies. Good luck!

That sounds good. So I guess its just up to him now, if he wants to release for the DOD of now, or DOD:Source

Sounds good :D I've actually already made some terrain, but I'm sure it can probably do 10x better than what I did. (78 objects making a field of a few hills, lol)

I'll actually release it on dod, for my friends testplaying, and then release it on DOD2 source :D

Duh...you obviously shouldn't delete off the detailed .rmf version.

You can always replace the detail such as chimneys, dormiers, boards and planks with .mdls. Same goes for the Carentan church steeple (if you intend on re-creating the Carentan church) and other things. .MDLs are excellent for steeples and high roofs, because they can rise up beyond the skybox's boundaries. Layout-wise, the real Carentan is pretty complex and can be rather r_speed unfriendly at times. There's a level of Carentan at CLose Combat invasion normandy that can give you a pretty accruate street layout of that place. Carentan is dense and big and so i wouldn't reccommend it for HL1 though. Of course, you can do a pretty fake/not-so-real representation in HL1. Besides, wouldn't HL2 still use models for the detailed stuff?

Try to keep entitiy count low though, so try to combine stuff into 1 .mdl if possible. You should check out real pics of the real Carentan. Rubble rock walls would be awesome if they had Normal Mapping on it, woudn't it?

There is already a map named dod_carentan. You might want to consider a name change so you don't confuse the custom map community.

Looks good so far.

he's aware there is already a dod_carentan, he wrote it down...
anywhoo.. i like what you have. i get the same r_speeds on a 2 roomed house i built, so those two houses are pretty damn good. keep up the work!

Same goes for the Carentan church steeple (if you intend on re-creating the Carentan church) and other things.

Last time I checked from my 180 reference pictures, there is no church in Carentan, unless you're talking about the one from Foy, which I may add I have already made :D (Slightly untextured)

http://www.lastgreatwar.com/buffer/NightSiren/Mapping/kaust3.bmp

(Screenshot from an abandoned map project of mine called dod_kaust)

Also...

THE TOWN WILL BE ALTERED FOR GAMEPLAY

It's true that Carentan is basically one street with clever camera angles. The street is too long so I'll be shortening it and relocating some of the important landmarks. There's a large back portion to the town that will also be constructed, which is pretty wide-open.

I'll post new screenshots as they come :D

That church looks pretty good.

fookin amazing:eek:

Originally posted by Glidias
... high roofs, because they can rise up beyond the skybox's boundaries...

errr .. are u sure about that ??
as far is i know the model need to be inside the skybox otherwise ull have a leak ..

no, just the origin

Originally posted by Neutrino
no, just the origin
hmm ..
i have had some probs with compiling
when a model sticks out of the sky ..

Then the origin for that model is outside the sky, in Hammer 3.5b the X in the model shows the origin.

Idea: details > custom propmodels.

I have little experience in modeling, perhaps someone would care to help? :D

Yes, there is a Carentan Church.

Ever seen the "Ripe Pickings" trailer for Brothers in Arms by Gearbox software? It's a realistic representation of 101st paratroopers attacking around the vincity of Carentan. Carentan can be seen from the distance from the farmland countryside. That church steeple you see in the distance at Carentan still exist today and is in the same spot.

map looks good! keep it up

Right you are glaidius. However, that church itself would kill r_speeds to the max :( But i'll see what I can do about having a church steeple on the "skyline". Unless you guys REALLY want a church in there, I'm not about to do it.

I think w/Source you're going to see mappers build individual accurate homes and then hook them togther with walls, terrain you can't cross (like minefields in CoD) and use the terrain editor to fill it in. So sticking to your original idea, which appears to be making fairly accurately individual houses, is a good idea.

If you run around a CoD level (which is what Source can execute in terms of detail) you'll notice a few things...all windows you can see out are framed in...all doors are framed. Windows, doors, and ceilings are pretty much uniform in terms of size (they had mapping standards). I wouldn't spend time doing intricate detail work on roofs, and crazy stuff like the detail in that church...but Source will push us to combine the detail in level design you see in CoD maps with our funneled playing style (creating combat zones and choke points)...that's the future as I see it and since you seem to have a nice eye for building accuracy I'd say it's a good start.

Leper you have 180 pics of the real Carentan? Or do you mean BoB? Haha.

Well, actually you don't need to model or brush every intricate detail anyway. Most of it can be done in textures and you just block up the rough shape. And in HL2, a lot of it can be done with Normal mapping/Bump mapping.

Porting maps over to source is very easy, the only changes that you will have to make will be textures and entitys

Just build your map using place holder textures and no entities then open it with hl2 hammer (when it is released) and do all of the entity and texture work then

might be off topic to the post, but when is the hammer 2 going to be out

I'm also waiting for DoD: Source to be released along with the editor, so I can start texturing and optimizing.

But hey, been working on my map since last october or so, so I'm not in a rush :p

I'm currently working on the factory or warehouse right now. Should be done within a week. I'm in no real hurry. Plus, I've found the "chokepoint" kind of.

It's in the attachment.

This will be the Axis last stand until they are pushed out of the village. It will be hard to push your way back into this area, as it's a haven for Snipers and MG nests.

The following will be the 3 in-city objectives...

- Factory / Warehouse
- Town Square
- Pharmacie

And as discussed earlier, once the axis lose it, they're pushed into the hedgrows and must force their way back into the town.

Are you having those objectives as the building themselves need to be captured by more than 1 player?

That's how I'm doing the OBJs in my map :) Should change gameplay a bit.

Very nice architecture by the way, love the church :)

Yea, 2 or 3 people will be needed to capture a point. This would promote teamplay quite a bit.

And I won't be using in-game flags. Looks too tacky if there's a giant axis flag hanging off a building. Objective sprites will do the trick.

It looks awesome. Keep up the good work.

Heh, didn't realize it was you night siren until i looked at the image urls ;)

I'm feelin' guilty for leavin' you guys out so I'll reveal to you guys another part of the map. This is the factory fence. Behind it will be the...well...factory. Not much but I need to post SOMETHING ;)

hey, i just looked over most of the posts for this map and i am quite pleased with most of it. although theres a few things i would like to suggest.

- this map, if done right, could be a great map for clan play and pub play, provided it has the right stuff....meaning that flags would be a necessity - 5 of them - and if you wanted to promote team play - why not make 2 of them 2 man caps ... no more than that or it gets really ugly. so that each team has their 1st flag that they can cap individually, and have the 2 2nd flags be 2 man caps and the third be the coke point ... but its a 1 man flag ... but make it the middle of the plaza ... so that mgs, snipers, rifles can rip it up.

- as far as a layout ... if your aiming for the map to look like the movies town .... consider having the allies coming from just outside the town ... like they do ... and the axis coming from the hedgrow ... so that its more of a balanced map ... have them arrive at the town more or less equally ... but with multipule routes.

cant wait to see more ... textures - layouts - etc

My comp's motherboard killed itself :(

I'm on my downstairs computer...soooo, my computer's out of commision for a couple of days it seems. Even if i had the RMF this computer does not have the capacity in which to make the map in hammer (this comp has an motherboard-integrated-videocard) *gasp*

I'll alert you all when I get my good comp back...

As for this spawn thing that smak- suggested...It's got me thinking...

It could either be...

-True to the movie (Axis start in town), with a pretty fun aspect to it OR
-Have it good for clan play (Both teams rush the town off the bat), and have it just CTF with no one holding the town to begin with.

Your votes?

IMO the flags should be in buildings (or the objectives be the buildings) which hold key strategical positions. Their should be 2 spawn points just on the outskurts of the town (true to the episode in the allies case) and each team has to rush to gain the foot hold.

OMG OR you could have schwetz style with attack and defend. The axis hold the town the first round and have 10-15 seconds to set up defenses and then the allies rush and upon allies full cap it swaps round so the allies defend and the axis attack FROM THE OPPOSITE SIDE. Thats my vote :)

I'm really looking forward to see the outcome of this map, and it would be my favourite map if you used the Schwetz style system, seeing as the removal of Schwetz has left a gap in DoD.

the only problem with attack and defend in dod ... is that its not a popular or even used gameplay type . dod has been based on a ctf type and their fore, shouldnt it be contiuned? i truely believe that caretan has the possibility to be a great map ... both for clan play and pub play. im really surprised no one has made the map yet ....

anyways - i would hope that this is aimed towards ctf and have both teams rush the town .... with lots to do ... .... if you dont way direct flag ... you could use buildings for say 2 of the objectives ... have have a huge flag on the side of it on a pole ... and it would be capped once 2 ppl hold it for like 5 secs ?

thats my imput ... but make sure the map is not linear ... too many of those ... try to make it circular ... many routes around ... not too many ... .but not just a one way street.

keep us posted with new pics and what not ....

ps - make sure that theres rubble .... and its well clipped :D hehhe ...

Well it used to be used ala schwetz and it was pretty popular. However that was a long time ago. The reason its not popular is because no one ever uses it.

true - but at one time or another ... it will get boring ... cuz you will end up camping the last objective the entire time ... which blows.... so ya ... ctf all the way

Both make good arguments, and it's hard to decide which one to use! Schwetz was actually one of my favorite maps back in the good ol' days of 3.1b, i alwaysliked those kinda maps better than CTF. However, it's true that CTF is much more popular amongst the newer players. It really depends what you people want...LET'S GET SOME VOTES!

1) CTF Map
2) Schwetz Style (Attack and Defend Spawns)

As for rubble, I'll need about 3 or 4 custom rubble models. I'll see what my mod buddies at Last Great War can whip up for me. Should there be rubble like bricks and that scattered in the streets, or just stick it to big piles on the sides of busted buildings?

And I was considering making my mobile mortar again, whereas you could pick up a mortar (as if it was a satchel or something) and set it up in a key area and fire away. The enemy could capture your mortar and use it against you if it went unattended and they captured it.

Make no mistake I have the knowledge with the entities in which to do this, because I've done it before.

Tell me what you think,
Thanks.

Capture the flag style is actually what crossfire uses where you actually capture the flags. The other style is territory control, where you area or location cap.

Honestly, make it what you want first, and if the play style doesn't play out too well, then try the other.

i say aim to make this an offical map! this can be one of the better maps out there so CTF ... i know ppl liked the old schetwz what ever it was .... but lets be real ppl .... that was old, time to move on ... it failed because ppl got bored of it and it wasnt what dod was ... same as to what happened with para play. it failed because people didnt want cs .... so lets not try to make dod another model tfc or cs ....

and as for the rubble .... i say both and add some sandbangs around.

the mortar might be a bit much ... caretan is more of a head on urban battle ... mortarts would only slow the map speed and annoy ppl that are getting blow up when they shouldnt.

i just would like to see a decent size map .... not too big .... both teams on either end of the town .... the allies rushing up and over the hill into the town .... and have like 3 ways of working around the city .... making it circular - the best map play as many clanners would agree ( dod_harrington is an example ). make sure theres lots of buildings ... windows .... and the sniper stairwell like in BoB :D

5 points .... the middle should be the town square ... make it a 2 man cap zone .... 2 ways to get to it from either side and the other points would be scattered around the city ... make buildings accessable. and windows! :D sandbags :D

btw - what factory are you talking about int he model ... i dont remember it from the movie ... can you show me an ss of it.

The factory in which i speak is on the left side of the town, where the sniper was. I think it's a warehouse but I call it a factory...fine, we'll call it the warehouse. Yea, i was working on the stairwell the last time I worked on it, until my comp died on me. Stairs are a pain in the ass sometimes. Here's the warehouse...

http://www.members.shaw.ca/ajdale/BAND_BROTHERS_D83.jpg

Man, I reallt want my good computer back :(

Mortar Issue
You're right, stick to the basics. Adding in these crazy things would add confusion and would generally make the map un-fun.

Flag Issue
I'll make it the way I want, i'll testplay it with people and see wat they think, then I'll make it CTF and then see what they think. One that gets the best rating will win ;)

Building Accesibility
On the verge of HL2 and DoD Source, it's safe to assume that we can escape the r_speed issue that has plagued mappers ever since modding was commonplace. Walking down the mains street, you can expect about 1200 wpoly once I'm done with it. The houses you can enter will be about 1/3 of them *to maintain a dod style map*, but each house will get it's own individual detail like window frames etc. instead of just having a big block with window and wall textures.

ok cool! :D i can deal with that ... and about the game play ... you could always release 2 types ;)

anyways. i really hope to see more pics soon :D

The pictures will continue to come as soon as my comp gets fixed :-/ In the meantime I'm going to see what I can do about getting custom models done.

1200 wpoly in a main fighting area = Hello Mr Lag

You'll notice i was speaking in terms of DoD Source...not the HL Engine. 1200 wpoly would kill a HL server. This map is intended for DOD SOURCE

which will be released when :P

I vote for the schwetz thing. There's the road approach to town from the Carentan farmhouse road(as seen in the BIA E3 movie), Carentan, and then the back area of Carentan by the marshes and hedgerows. Maybe have two actual areas of play. The first is the town, and then if the Allies win it goes to a large hedgerowed field where the town isn't in view. I don't know if that will affect r_speeds though, but it isn't being rendered so:/

If its for Source then, personally I wouldn't do much work till we have Hl2 and the relevant Hammer update. I mean from what I've seen, its models more than brushes in HL2.

True, but you'll notice that the man structure of the buildings is still brushes. Only the intricate workings of the INSIDE of buildings is made almost 90% of models. Exterior, its trees, lamp posts, cars etc.

I've got one of my buds from LGW doin' the piano in the middle of the street for me :) Here's a pic of what you can expect it to look like..

http://www.members.shaw.ca/ajdale/BAND_BROTHERS_D78.jpg