I am currently in the process of making a map named dod_concentration, the theme of the map is to capture a concentration camp used by the Germans for certain bad things.

Now I know its not a thing most Germans would be proud of (ie what happened back then) and I'm aware of that and sympathise with them. And I'm also aware that its a sore point with the Jewish community in this world still.

Now I'd like comments from people on weather they think this map would be to politically incorrect or bring up to many resentments and so on before I finish the map. I'd like comments from Germans and Jewish people if possible on this as alot of them are affected by this, but also everyone aswell :)

And for the record i'm not trying to stir any bad feelings and stuff up I just thought i'd get the feel for a map of this type before I completed it and released it for beta testing.

Thanks again

Sly

aslong as you dont trow in dead things or other '"nazi" stuff ..

i think your better off making a p.o.w camp
i dont think concentration camps belong in games

very well spoken, IR. I completely agree.

If there is any doubt then there is no doubt at all.

Originally posted by IR
aslong as you dont trow in dead things or other '"nazi" stuff ..

i think your better off making a p.o.w camp
i dont think concentration camps belong in games

I have considered making it a POW camp, this also poses some problems but no where near as many.

I'll see what i can do with it and what happens, I dam near added in gas chambers and stuff but scrubbed those before I even added them.

Originally posted by IR
i think your better off making a p.o.w camp
i dont think concentration camps belong in games

Agreed ... stick with the P.O.W camp idea.

jup, and also there were no fights for concentration camps, like the germans even thought about it giving away their lifes for jews

the questions for me is: how realistic a map (also a ww2 game) have to be?
weapons, towns, symbols etc. are ok (here in germany not all of this (symbols) and that`s good), but pow or concentration camp?

this this things happens and i am not proud of it, although i am not do it. we germans (i mean this generation) will call in other lands Nazis and that for thing we not doing. this things happend 60 - 66 years ago but i/we germans have to "pay for it". i think it is time to say: thats germans and not thats nazis. i really hope it will never happen again, and maybe my post is more for a other forum. so i stop it and say only one:

no pow or concentration camp.

well pow camps shouldn't be that bad because generally allied soldiers were threated verry well

Like someone said, if you think it will cause an issue, then its a bad idea, that is your conscience talking.

P.O.W. camp would not be so bad, since both sides had them.

I lived in Germany for 2 years. The polizei (police, I think I spelt it correctly) don't tolerate Nazi supporters. I seen some rallies in Berlin, Heidelberg. I did not know that the Swastika was not allowed at the time,then the police started arresting those with the armbands. I lived (rented a flat) with a German Family until housing was available in the Officer Quarters. My landlord served in the War, as wehrmacht, nice man. He treated me very nicely, his wife even made me dinner when I would return from the field. We had many great talks at night. He told me how he felt when he found out about those camps after the war. he basically told me he felt, betrayed, cheated and was infuriated about it. He said the world will never see him as a German Soldier fighting for his country, but they will see him as evil man because of what happened. So he rarely talks about his service.

Anyways, how about DoD_science vs. camps
allies need to take control of a science district that develop wunder weapons V2 & ME163's

i dont think concentration camps belong in games

Very much true. Don't even think about this idea, it's a bad one :(

well pow camps shouldn't be that bad because generally allied soldiers were threated verry well

Russian soldiers weren't treated very well. Actually they were slaughterd by the Axis troups, once captured.

Reaction on frank the tank

To start with: I am a Israëli, however, I'm not jewish. I have a Dutch mother. I've been brought up with the idea that what happend in WWII was very evil and Hitler was a very very evil man but that this story has two sides.
I've also seen alot of movies concerning the WWII and those weren't only action-based. Like 'The Twin' (Dutch) and 'La Vita E Bella' (Italian if I'm not wrong) etc. etc.

Actually Frank, I don't think that your landlord even had the right to feel bitter for the fact that his 'courages act's' for his country weren't agnolisched. He faught on a side what was systematicly killing every jew, handicaped, retarded and 'political incorrect' men. I think he should feel very sorry for the side he was on that time without even questioning Hitler's motives (he was an open antisemite, didn't that raised any questions!?).

German Killa:
The new German generation is indeed jugded on what their fathers / forfathers did. Now I'm not sure who to adress the blame for this, your fathers / forfathers or us?
NOTE: I do not join the people who like to say this, I think it's an statement without any consideration. I live in Holland and have ecounterd this phenomena many times (i.e soccer).

To conclude this post, my tip for you is to be very carefull about what happened in the WWII and to always show respect for the victims since it is not up to us to judge in this case. Again: don't use a concentrationcamp to build your map. Watch some movies about the camps and know what happened.

greyhound

Well thanks for the feedback everyone :) I've decided in the end its best to let sleeping lions sleeps and ditch the project all together.

MY Reasonings are that it has brought up distinctly bad feelings about the past and would just do so on a worse scale if released.

Also in relation to POW camps being better then concentration camps that is true but the Russians as POW's were treated just as harshly as the Jew's, cripples, political prisoners.

I've read quite a few books on POW camps and they where brutal aswell, lack of food was proberly the biggist problem but there where beatings and killings there to unfortuantly :(

Personally I don't blame this generation of Germans for anything how can someone be responsible for something their forefathers did?

Anyway i'm sorry for bringing any bad feelings up everyone.

Cheers all again

Sly

of course, anyone could be offended by anything in a game. It's just... by making a POW camp, it won't make you look like an heartless biggot.. it'll just make you seem heartless.
:p


Anyway, I think you should do what you wanna. People get offended, it happens. Though, I personally think it's not really that great of an idea to use concentration camps as game material... kinda' a touchy subject.

Originally posted by greyhound
Russian soldiers weren't treated very well. Actually they were slaughterd by the Axis troups, once captured.


I was talking about allied soldiers(UK,US etc...) russia joined the war to fight against the germans because they were attacked and not because they want to support the UK or US or whatever, they never being called allies as well, it was either the allies and the red army. and not all russian soldiers were treated bad

I was talking about allied soldiers(UK,US etc...) russia joined the war to fight against the germans because they were attacked and not because they want to support the UK or US or whatever, they never being called allies as well, it was either the allies and the red army. and not all russian soldiers were treated bad

Yes, I was indeed actually wondering if the Russians were called allies. Guess not then :) Sorry for the misstake then.

What I DO know is that one of the reasons the Russian fought so bravely was that they knew how there 'comrades' were treated once in captivity. I believe 3 million (!) Russian POW's were brutaly slaughtered in captivity by the Germans.

I guess that says enough,

greyhound

yes, and 600.000 german soldiers died in pow camps after the war ended(!), some were even locked up untill 1960 before being released

Originally posted by greyhound
Very much true. Don't even think about this idea, it's a bad one :(


To start with: I am a Israëli, however, I'm not jewish. I have a Dutch mother. I've been brought up with the idea that what happend in WWII was very evil and Hitler was a very very evil man but that this story has two sides.
I've also seen alot of movies concerning the WWII and those weren't only action-based. Like 'The Twin' (Dutch) and 'La Vita E Bella' (Italian if I'm not wrong) etc. etc.

greyhound

LA vie E bella , het leven is mooi, life is great
you speak dutch aswell ? im from holland :)
if you do you should know what the shopwindow in escape means :P

kaas van klaas,

boter, kaas en eieren

Hahaha!

Wat grappig! Gisteren heb ik nog even op je profiel gekeken (en even op je site). Het verbaasde mij inderdaad dat je uit Holland komt.
Stom genoeg speel ik haast geen dod_escape (terwijl ik het in principe een prima map vind), wel dod_jagd en dod_merderet aan de andere hand. Heerlijke maps en prima textures! ;)

Mooie film trouwens, La Vita E Bella. Heb je 'em gezien?
Zo niet, zeker een keer doen dan!

greyhound

haha, ik vind dod_jagd de beste map van dod :D

yes, and 600.000 german soldiers died in pow camps after the war ended(!),

I'm not trying to have a contest here ;)
It's just that wat the Germans did isn't right, though I know you can't label every German for this but still it isn't (like I said) right wat Germany did ... I also know that there were good German soldiers and there were bad allied soldiers and bad red army-soldiers. I know that.

some were even locked up untill 1960 before being released

Serves them right, I guess :rolleyes:

greyhound

En terwijl ik dit type zie ik dat Quakah al weer geantwoord heeft :p En dit stukje in het Hollands had kunnen zijn. Ach, aan de andere kant is het zo ook voor de 'anderen' nog te volgen :)

Grappig ...

nene, ik ben van belgie hoor :)

But we will continue in english right :) anywayz, there was this captain locked up untill 1957 because they just haven't screened and checked him, he didn't do anything wrong in the war(warcrimes etc) so go figure if you're locked up for that the whole 15 years :confused:

*edit* the allies should have taken berlin instead of russia, MANY more men would have lived + less women would be abused(some died because they got raped over and over)

the allies should have taken berlin instead of russia, MANY more men would have lived + less women would be abused(some died because they got raped over and over)

That's very shocking Quakah. But a fact is: this happenend alot in the war and I could (probably) bring more cases like this forward. But the question I should ask myself then is: Am I really helping this debat. Answer: no ...

But we will continue in english right anywayz, there was this captain locked up untill 1957 because they just haven't screened and checked him, he didn't do anything wrong in the war(warcrimes etc) so go figure if you're locked up for that the whole 15 years

Maybe so. But he faught on the Axis side. So he indirectly helped the holocaust (and other evil things) to continue.
I say: serves him right. But I'm more concerned about all the soldiers who commited warcrimes and did not get punished for that.

nene, ik ben van belgie hoor

Geen probleem ;)

greyhound

Originally posted by greyhound
Maybe so. But he faught on the Axis side. So he indirectly helped the holocaust (and other evil things) to continue.
I say: serves him right. But I'm more concerned about all the soldiers who commited warcrimes and did not get punished for that.

lot's of german frontline troops didn't even know what was going on with jews. I don't find it right for a german soldier who was called out for duty to put him in a camp for 12 years near starvation because he had to fight for the german army

...and I don't find it right that 6 million Jews died simply because they were who they were... but they did anyway.

The bottom line is the world's full of all sorts of dispicable evils, and no matter which way you cut it, this sort of thing happens.

So, how about this, fellas? Why don't we stop 'debating' over wether the treatment of German POWs was wrong or right. Nobody should have been mistreated, hell, wars shouldn't even be fought. But they do, and people get mistreated, and many die. It's the way of the world, get over it. In the end, one group being mistreated is no more important than another group getting the same thing. Sad but true.

Right ;)

Originally posted by {GL}DoubleD
get over it.

Thats something that cannot be done

Originally posted by {GL}DoubleD
...and I don't find it right that 6 million Jews died simply because they were who they were... but they did anyway.


I didn't say that... I didn't even mention that

anywayz, we weren't debating about the treatment of POW's was right or wrong, we were sharing opinions, and I liked this debate, so why stop it? we weren't insulting eachother, we were just chatting, and it seems like only you got a problem with it. The guy who made this thread already got his answer so I don't see the problem to talk about this? You don't need to read this thread

little example from last week: we were in a irc channel and germany leads 1: 0 against Netherlands and some ppl say 1:0 for nazis. i dunno why? maybe they were drunken or something like this.


1,3 million germans soldiers are missing today.
Stalin are always a evil man. i think most ppl here have seen the film "Enemy at the gates". so you know the fight of stalingrad and the comments of stalin: 1 man the weapon, one man the ammo or we haven`t enough material but we have enough ppl. so you see every country have a part in the history which is not proudly.
i think it is the brutality and intensity how we germans killed the jewish ppl which will always poke the hate. hopefully some day the world see that germany which have a damn history part but now it is over.

ehm, enemy at the gates isn't historically correct at all, every russian soldier had plenty of weapons and ammo in stalingrad + these human wave attacks weren't performed by normal troops but by penal battalions. But yeah, stalin is an evil man, he let his troops wait outside of Warsaw so the german could stop the uprising and kill the polish home army even when the uprising was made to help the soviets capture the town way easier. But I do also hate it when people use the term nazi's instead of germans, even on these boards, I have loads of respect for german soldiers as for any other soldier who fought there(there are exceptions offcourse)

Unfortuantly for anyone in this world the human race isn't exactly known to be nice to the rest of it. All sides in WW2 did something truely awful which should never been committed.
POW's where shot by all sides and mistreated to boot :(

I may just convert my map into a German military base instead of a concentration or POW camp. I've already started on another map based on de_train from CS.

thank you Sly, that was the point I was trying to make. :)

I just had a thought - for a novel map, you could make
para_harry, based on the Great Escape!! Or maybe not.

Yeah a concentration camp would be a vvvvvvvv bad idea.

A military camp would be OK - V1 launch area or something like that? British Commandos had good bashes at them I think.

you can't make para maps anymore

Yes you still can. But you need yr own set of entities to control the para mechanism of disabling spawns, enabling them, and checking for which team fully owns the entire map.

Serves them right, I guess

I think this response was a little out of place--I would suggest being a little bit more specific next time to, "whom or who it serves right".

This is just so we dont get confused in the placement or the intent of your post.

Sorry to be blunt, I just found it rude you could write out your opinion as generalized as that with a :rollseyes: emicote. Quite clearly, you ment those responsible of crimes deserved possibly what came to them.

So I'll correct your post based on intention. :D You dont have to thank me for it! :D

For those who were responsible of attrocities and varied crimes against humanity, I feel it poetic justice that some were held in prisons for up to sixty years.

As for the camp idea, I dont think it would put players in any better a place then before--I mean the PoW camp thing. Personally, I think it would be fun to defend a PoW camp; or like make a map where half the allied team is trying to attack, the other half is inside the camp, trying to get out--using like say, our classic HL Crowbar instead of a BAR? :D

Something like that would be fun :D

Sorry to be blunt, I just found it rude you could write out your opinion as generalized as that with a :rollseyes: emicote.

I just found it rude

rude

*Known ingame as II 2.SS II Obstuf. Washburn

Sorry mate, but this conversation should maybe end here.

greyhound ;)

*I WILL NOT POST ON THIS THREAD ANYMORE*

P.S, Don't flame please. I just don't think we're going anywere now...

politically correct = teh bad.

why the heck did u bump this stupid thing. stupid topic and what it turned into does not belong here

Originally posted by Neutrino
why the heck did u bump this stupid thing. stupid topic and what it turned into does not belong here

The topic was viable just not the end discussion, it would of happened sooner or later.

Things like this need to be asked and discussed as these things happened unfortuantly :(

So much for my dod_auschwitz map...ahhh well....

Sorry mate, but this conversation should maybe end here.

greyhound

*I WILL NOT POST ON THIS THREAD ANYMORE*

P.S, Don't flame please. I just don't think we're going anywere now...

Remember my last correction? Have you not learned anything thus far?

Sorry mate, I just cant find your arguement credible because you cite your ingame name as belonging to a Group of people I'am not particularly fond of.


^
What he means above.

Since your not going to post in this thread anymore, I just thought it would be worth the correction for those browsing topics. ;)

This is going way too far, Mapping is not MH.

Just use common sense when mapping and focus on the important things: playability and performance.

When people like your map and play it often, you've done a good job.
If they avoid it and switch servers maybe you should change the theme.

not only would a concentration camp be wrong, it would be lame too, (there was no allied fighting there)

ive thought of doing a "great escape" map but havnt got round to it yet.

i think it would be cool.

"the tunnels caving in!!"