For all the mappers in here, what do you find to be the most challenging part out of creating maps for DoD?

I have a few ideas for maps and I felt like creating something, so I read a few tutorials on mapping tonight. I got as far as setting up "Hammer Editor" and building an incomplete room. Wow, I can only imagine how much time mappers need to spend on making a whole map. It took me quite a while just to create this empty room which would still need work just so I can run it. To be honest, working with 3D was harder than I thought, and that Hammer Editor isn't exactly convenient. Creating "scenario" Starcraft maps was way easier than this! :D Anyway, good job to all the mappers out there, I personally don't have enough patience for it.

I know the feeling. It took me nearly 2 hours to get that room properly done. And when I tried to compile with some entities in it it said there was a leak. So I spent 2 days trying to sort out the leak and nothing. So I gave up... props to all the mappers here :D

The most challenging part ?

Hmm ithink the layout

Most challenging part is definately terrain and creative things with entities.

Receiving critisism is also pretty challenging, but enjoyable making modifications.....oh, and for some arguing about why the critisism is wrong is challenging ;)

Finishing.

I think most mappers would agree :cool:

Originally posted by TheNomad
Finishing.

I think most mappers would agree :cool:


Yes ... actully getting a map finished. That's why I make tiny maps.

yeah definately, getting through those times when youve got limited ideas, and without much motivation, i spend an hour just flying around the map looking for something easy to work on, because i dont wanna work on the harder areas, where im stuck for ideas.

You'd be surprised how many 'adrenalin's and 'diversion's are half finished on my HDD.

layout and gameplay planning

i follow a set of rules i made up myself and things i learned over the years of map making

Thanks for the replies guys. I never even thought about the gameplay planning. Mapping sure does sound harder than I initially thought.

By the way, if anyone here ever runs out of ideas, maybe I could help. I'm no mapper, but I could inspire you or get that creative side going at the very least. Sometimes these (what I consider) original ideas just pop in my head, but unfortunately they don't actually get anywhere.

layout by far is the hardest part

Getting gameplay to turn out how you want it too, there is no accounting for idiot players and their way of playing...

Definately sticking to a map from beginning to finish. I have a billion maps I have started, but like a weeks work into, and then lost interest.

I'd have to say layout and planning are the hardest, because once you get a good layout the map will just fall together. But drawing out a layout that will work just right is harder then simultaneously combusting!

1) Making Half Life do what you imagined.
2) Making players do everything the way you planned. ;-)

Are you all using the Hammer Editor? How do you like it? No complaints?

Originally posted by Golden Maven
Are you all using the Hammer Editor? How do you like it? No complaints?

It doesn't have curves, meshes, realtime lighting preview, shader-support, a terrain engine, support for alpha-textures, support for several game configs w/wads and it can't cook coffee :mad:

Apart from that its awesome :cool:

Originally posted by Instacrome
It doesn't have curves, meshes, realtime lighting preview, shader-support, a terrain engine, support for alpha-textures, support for several game configs w/wads and it can't cook coffee :mad:

Apart from that its awesome :cool:

Except for the fact that most of those are not actually Hammer limitations but the HL engine's. The HL2 Hammer is very similar but has and can have those kinds of capabilities. :)

Most challenging? Ok...posting pics here and seeing mapper-wanna-be's who think they know everything tell you that your map sucks or there's a texture alignment problem yet they have personally never released a finished map yet.

Something along those lines...the 2d most challenging would be layout...a good layout can survive crappy textures...a map built the other way around cannot.

trying to get ppl play ur map.. custom maps are underrated (alltho there are alot of custom maps that are better than official ones)

2nd most challenged would be to make IR happy (he needs to know the mapper... if not, your map will suck.. alltho its better than officials -_-)

Hello,

I think - for me - one of the most challenging things are:

- the beginning;
*What will the layout be like?
*Texture use: it can not be more then 4mb...
*Not getting stuck at the 'first room' ;).

- Lightning;
*I find it pretty hard to create good lightning and to remain the playabilty of a map.

-The end part;
*Editing the small things (after all the hours you spent on it).
*It helps if there are people playing your map and giving you feedback, it can be experienced as inspireable.

That's it I gues ;),

greyhound

* designing a good lay-out.
* sticking to the map until it's finished (in fact, it's never finished!)
* getting the engine to do what you want it to do
* getting ppl to play it.

Making the map and seeing how your imagined world comes to live on screen is a great joy for a mapper. Seeing people playing in that world is the biggest joy. To bad, there are many great maps out there but only few are actually popular.

Unless your map is official, it's played regularly.

It's a shame that so many talent is wasted because the masses and serveradmins are sticking to avalanche or anzio. Don't get me wrong, those are great maps, but it isn't exactly rewarding to see how months of hard work are played only a few days/weeks perhaps a month and then die because of the lack of interest from the general public.

Originally posted by TheNomad
Finishing.

I think most mappers would agree :cool:


agreed. i still have a bunch of unfinished maps. hopefully i can finish them soon but ive been hopeing for a pretty long time by now so im not realy counting on it...

trying to do crazy **** that has never been done with entities before and thus usually never works right...a lot of broken entities and features that don't work.

there are 3 hard parts

the first one is figuring out where to put/find all the mapping files and getting hammer to actually compile a hollow skyblock with a spawn in it.
If you have come this far, you are already past where most wannabe mappers quit
The second one is a good (and preferably original) idea.
Whether its a layout idea, gameplay idea, or a good setting or what-have-you
The third is finishing it off completely before your other 'little side projects' run away with your time and energy

The most challenging part of mapping is adding a maximum of detail while keeping correct r_speeds.

Originally posted by TheNomad
Finishing.

I think most mappers would agree :cool:

Exactly my thought when I saw the thread title :p

i would agree with finishing, ive never released my beachmap that started 3 years ago =P

Originally posted by FuzzDad
Most challenging? Ok...posting pics here and seeing mapper-wanna-be's who think they know everything tell you that your map sucks or there's a texture alignment problem yet they have personally never released a finished map yet.

Glad to see your not bitter about it :D

That's the main reason why I don't release maps here any more.

@azncoolteen ... no time limits on getting a map finished ... errr maybe try to get it sorted before HL2 comes out, so you still got years to go yet :rolleyes:

The most challenging part is pleaseing the other damn mappers :)
That and making the map look like its 3d not like your in a rat maze,a box.I find it very few maps out there where they really look realistic.Look at how many maps are out there with tanks in areas that have no access for any type a vehicle.So many maps have these buildings that are hollowed out no furniture and just a hole for whats supose to be a window a doorway usually no door the building make no sense as to why they are there.No reason other than to creating a rat maze.And yet somehow these maps become so popular.As the guy says on T.V.
"welcome to crazy world"
Anyhow I spend a lot of time trying to make my map look like you can go places you can't.If I make a street with buildings going up and down a block im sure to give the building depth and make it look like there is a back yard even though I dont want you to go there because the objectives lie elsewhere its more work and more texture but usually makes sense and looks realistic as a game can.If I hollow a building out for access I dont make a ramp going upstairs or a ladder if its a residence I use stairs.I might if it was a warehouse use a ramp or ladder.We have all played tiger whats up with the hollowed out buildings there?ramps going upstairs to empty skinny little rooms and how those tanks get in theres' no entrance or exit to that town :)again I say
"welcome to crazy world"

People dont go on about details like that because its not economical. Sure every map could be super detailed, fully furnished insides of buildings, door/window frames/ realistic entrances to streets, back yard, but the maps would be a heck of a lot smaller as you'd start hitting faces/planes limits left, right and centre.

I'd rather make a sprawling, large, city map that plays well than a small highly detailed realistic building.

FD: So true about wannabe's...add this...do that...that will rox! Yeah...why don't you do that in your map then? "I don't know how!", there we go....

Originally posted by soeagle
Look at how many maps are out there with tanks in areas that have no access for any type a vehicle.So many maps have these buildings that are hollowed out no furniture and just a hole for whats supose to be a window a doorway usually no door the building make no sense as to why they are there.No reason other than to creating a rat maze.And yet somehow these maps become so popular.As the guy says on T.V.
"welcome to crazy world"


Game Play ... Game Play ... Game Play


btw DoD is a game ... nothing to do with the "Real crazy world"

Originally posted by FuzzDad
Most challenging? Ok...posting pics here and seeing mapper-wanna-be's who think they know everything tell you that your map sucks or there's a texture alignment problem yet they have personally never released a finished map yet.

FD, I'm suprised at you. You're normally cool headed and a smart guy. You can't expect to post work, ask for critisim (if you're not asking to be critiqued, then you're only showing off....and whats the point in that?) and expect to ONLY get responces from experienced mappers. Perhaps 10 percent of the HL community has ever even downloaded Hammer editor, far less have used it to make a fully functioning map. 95% of the people who will use your map and enjoy it are people with ZERO mapping experience....so...

Wouldn't you want feedback from EVERY walk of DoD life? this way you can make the map that the most people in the DoD community would enjoy?

It suprises me to see you say you don't like hearing feedback from everybody. SURE I understand if some jerky kid says "YOUR MAP SUCKS!" thats lame, but if somebody who dosn't know mapping, but perhaps is a very skilled player who knows alot about gameplay says....

"hmm well that hallway seems to long and narrow, I'll bet you'll get too much action there for an area you designed to be a side route. Think about widening it and giving some cover so it dosn't turn into a nade kill zone."

you won't like the advice?

why post your work then?

This may sound quiet newbish and lame but brushwork. Sure anyone can make a room with a door and a light but then say you want a bit of rubble here and a crack in the wall and this and that then suddenly realise u have a MAX_CLIP_NODE and leaks and stuff like that! So only one thing I can say: PRACTISE MAKES PERFECT!! Mapping is a hard business, even though I'm not experianced I do understand the effort needed to make a map. I have attempted many and I do agree with others that finishing is soo hard!

the nature of VIS and BSP mapping makes the results of using hint brushes non-linear, yet fractal in design. being able to forsee your r_speed challenges before you create a map takes much experience.

Originally posted by izuno
the nature of VIS and BSP mapping makes the results of using hint brushes non-linear, yet fractal in design. .

????

Originally posted by Skullz_Vandal
FD, I'm suprised at you. You're normally cool headed and a smart guy.

I've been posting for three to four years or so...and I've never waivered from my point is that the only person you can really trust is yourself. I've posted hundreds of "how-to-make-your-map-better" posts and feel, with some conviction, that I know what I'm talking about.

So...a guy new to mapping comes along and asks for input and some, but not all, of the critiques he'll get in these forums are by folks who have never released a map but for some reason seem fit to make comments as to this or that and generally their comments are forgetable. It doesn't mean that some of the folks in here who don't have an official map are not loaded w/talent...and you should listen to them too (like Glidias, and others) but for the new guy that's a tall order:

"Who should I listen too?"

So my point, although sarcastic in tone, is to trust yourself, listen to those folks who have some weight behind their comments and dismiss any negative comments unless couched in a constructive way by someone you either trust or has "been around the block" as it were.

Sometimes folks posting negative comments in here are like folks who disparage a book or a movie, without ever having read the book or seen the movie. Everyone's a critic...the important thing to know is who to dismiss and who to trust.

What's the most challenging part of mapping? Patience baby...patience.

Much better, FD. For the nice happeh post, I award you a swiss cake roll.

<3

I preffer the "PuNk FD" what have you done with him oldman :/~

^_^

Originally posted by Glidias
????

I stand by my remarks.

1. Coming up with a layout through sketches and imagination and mental playtesting.
2. Starting with your 'blank canvas' in Hammer.
3. Finishing the bloody thing.