Model: MaRzY, DoD Team
Animations: MaRzY
Skin: pvt.Malarkey (based off bot's), Bots (pistol grip)

Pictor (http://dodec.hlgaming.com/images/webly_malarkey.jpg )

Downloador (http://dodec.hlgaming.com/filedb/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1097)

Looks good, I'm using.

Looks great, I'll certainly be using it.

wow does look nice, you should skin it now Nimrod:D

Originally posted by Trigger
Looks great, I'll certainly be using it.

Originally posted by Trigger
Looks great, I'll certainly be using it.

Originally posted by Trigger
Looks great, I'll certainly be using it.

Sorry i wish i could agree with you all, but to me the skin is to dark compared to the real life weapon, the lighting is very poor, and parts of the textures you have just left pure black, with no lighting or surface texture of any kind, and on top of this the textures are miss aligned so you can see straight through the model where the bullet chambers are when the reload anim plays. Like i said in another thread, if you where to take your time, and think more about lighting and highlights your skins would be much better. I really do think you show great potential at becoming a good skinner which is why i'm being so honest with you, i think you need to slow down and put much more thought and time into your finishing touches, because this is what your skins lack most IMO.

Im going to have to agree with Marzy. It just seems to dark. Maybe if it was a dark grayish color, but its just like solid black. Mind if I just take your skin and lighten it up with a little more light reflection etc.?





Peace,
Midnight

Im gonna have to agree with Marzy on this. Its a great skin but the light and dark is uneven, you got some light spots and alot of dark spots. I think the webley had a blue tone on the metal, not black. Even though, good job. Iam also skinning a Webley at the mement, its a hard job.

Originally posted by MaRzY
Sorry i wish i could agree with you all, but to me the skin is to dark compared to the real life weapon, the lighting is very poor, and parts of the textures you have just left pure black, with no lighting or surface texture of any kind, and on top of this the textures are miss aligned so you can see straight through the model where the bullet chambers are when the reload anim plays. Like i said in another thread, if you where to take your time, and think more about lighting and highlights your skins would be much better. I really do think you show great potential at becoming a good skinner which is why i'm being so honest with you, i think you need to slow down and put much more thought and time into your finishing touches, because this is what your skins lack most IMO.

u said pretty much the same thing about his bren:
Bren (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=31280&highlight=bren)

and every1 said it was good except u same for this...
i like it, i really dont notice anything rong with it, but wut am i to say i dont make models....

Originally posted by MaRzY
Sorry i wish i could agree with you all, but to me the skin is to dark compared to the real life weapon, the lighting is very poor, and parts of the textures you have just left pure black, with no lighting or surface texture of any kind, and on top of this the textures are miss aligned so you can see straight through the model where the bullet chambers are when the reload anim plays. Like i said in another thread, if you where to take your time, and think more about lighting and highlights your skins would be much better. I really do think you show great potential at becoming a good skinner which is why i'm being so honest with you, i think you need to slow down and put much more thought and time into your finishing touches, because this is what your skins lack most IMO. Gonna have to agree with Marzy. This one is just too dark for my taste. But great job:cool:

Like Marzy said, I think malarky has potential but he hides his talent by making the metal too dark to see the actual stuff that goes into the metal. So its basically looks liek agiant black blob on your screen, but too me this is not a prob. since i have a flat screen :D . i cant tell if its dark or not.

So Marzy probobly means in other words Ease up on the Brightness/Contrast bar. Am i right Marzy?

Originally posted by _Sniper_Spike
u said pretty much the same thing about his bren:
Bren (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=31280&highlight=bren)

and every1 said it was good except u same for this...
i like it, i really dont notice anything rong with it, but wut am i to say i dont make models....


It got nothing to do with making skins or models, it's got to do with light physics and our world reality.

basicly the perfect graphic engine will be the one to create dynamic shading/lighting on your model by creating materials and defining them, after doing that you skin the material and it will "live" in game by the light sources the maper defined.

no idea how HL2 is going to be and i also forgot if there is anything such as light reflections in games like CoD and others but in HL1 there is no such thing, there are of course shade and lighting but no realistic light reflection (sky/ground/sun/the face of the guy next to you :P) and the whole issue is pretty much absolute, look at a player model running on a map, he enters an open area and there is no shade there, BOOM he is full of light, you can't see a model half in the shade and half not, same for weapon models and basicly every model.

so... having said that, when skiners skin models they need to create a realistic world lighting on their skin, so there is of course the area where the light reflects the most and come back in to your eyes, and there are the other parts which might be lighted too but less and the areas you are not going to see almost anything from the origin view + anims.

so now when you look at the skin malarkey made which i think is a great skin but as marzy said lacks with realistic lighting, you see the revolver have a light on the side of it and also a little above from it and then you see the top of the gun without any light reflection (which is wierd), and the barrel without any light reflection... that might be real if you are inside a room with some lamps in random places but when you skin for a game you should (Usualy... i mean, it depands on the game, half of max payne 2 is inside building :)) make the lighting as if it comes from sun and lights up almost every part that is in the same angle and usualy the top of the weapon too.

take something metalic... look at cars on the street and try to understand more on reflections.

what i can say as a skiner, it's totaly not easy to make perfect lighting, i mean... you need to make it realistic, you need to make it to fit the material you are skining and the material the weapon was made from, you need to plan it right, you need to make 2D lighting become 3D reality, it's a very hard work, especialy when working with complex models and hard meshs ;[.

ok so non of us is such a freak that he can make it super perfectly real, but in this case... the lighting is pretty poor, but the texture is great ;]


anyway sniper spike, you better look what's "rong" in the skin rather in Marzy's critic ;]

-Mortar.

To be honest, I'm getting a bit tired of those dark-metal reskins. Sorry Malarkey. :P

And I prefer DoD's default Webley animes over Marzy's. But good work nonetheless, just the skin you gotta work on.

Marzy is right that there seems to be an error where parts of the chamber are see-through during the reload sequence, but aside from that I'll have to dissagree with pretty much everything you guys have said.

Maybe my monitor is bright, or maybe y'all have dark monitors, but I don't see what you mean when you say the texture is almost all black, I see detail across the texture when looking at the model or the flats, no real obscure shadows that turn it into a murly and undefined blackness. It's dark, I'll grant you that, but far from black. The lighting as well, spare a few screws, is fairly consistant throughout the texture, and well done in my oppinion. Not perfect, to be certain, but not as muddled as some of you make it out to be, again, perhaps you should turn your brightness up a bit. It may not be true to life what a Webley looks like, but that's hardly a valid criticism against a texture. There have been plenty before that didn't match their real-life counterparts, even the default DoD models are guilty of this.

I'm a bit surprised everyone in the begining of the thread said how they liked the texture, but once Marzy spoke ill of the texture, everybody since has appeared eager to jump on the bandwagon. I know he's a respected member of the community, but feel free to make up your own oppinions on things. If that is your oppinion, you don't have to wait until someone like Marzy mentions it to speak your peace. This is nothing personal against anyone, just an observation.

Is Marzy the new Hitler?

I would'nt say Hitler, but he is definitly a mad man. :D

Looks to me like monkey see monkey do.

Looks to me like this could turn out to be one of the most interesting threads we have had for a while.


First of all i want to say that the posts i made in this thread and the bren thread where not easy for me, pulling some ones work apart is not my style, i'm more lightly to say nothing. But i really do think that Malarkey can do better then this, which is why i feel i must say something, because like i said he shows great potential.

Now i've put a little something together to try and show you where i'm coming from.

This first picture is of a cube type shape i made in lightwave with a single metal type texture. All thats in the scene is the cube and one light source, which is of a distant type to represent the sun. You can see from the pic the light is behind the cube and looking down towards the back left hand corner. But as you can see in the rendered pic, we can still clearly define the shape of the object. What helps us to define the object is the different tones and shades that the light is making as it falls onto the various faces that make up the cube. Those faces that are directly in line with the light are highlighted and stand out much sharper then those that are not directly in line with the light, and are not aswell defined and are more softer. I have then baked this lighting and texture straight out of lightwave to make a UV texture which you can also see in the picture. We can see all the different tones in the metal that help to define it's shape, that the single light source has made. The main thing i'm trying to get at here is how through the use of various tones representing lighting, we can define the parts that make up are object much better.

PIC 1 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/scitzo/lighting1.jpg)


This second picture is of Malarkey's skin, i have tried to point out the main parts where i think lighting should be, which will help define and bring out the detail more clearly, aswell as looking more natural.

PIC 2 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/scitzo/lighting2.jpg)

So are you with me now, this skin could be improved to look much better using tones and highlights to represent the correct lighting. Like under the hammer which is just all black at the minute, same with the firing pin, which needs to be of hardened polished steel (shiny), the bullet chambers, that might aswell not be there at the minute, because you cant see them....etc. Making the skin a little lighter will also help, the webley is lighter then this in the real world, and i think what -Sp|inter said about it having a slight blue tint is correct. Look for pictures of the webley Mk V as a guide, because i'm hoping your going to have a stab at doing this skin again, because i know you can do better...;)

Oh and by the way i noticed you clipped the textures, all the textures for this model when i released it where to the power of 2, so once in dod, the halflife engine would not resize them. But with you now clipping these textures, your skins are being resized ingame to the power of 2, which will not make them look as sharp as they could be. So if you do re skin this again, don't clip the textures this time if you want the best results.

What was that about monkeys {CoR} ez ....... :D

I was refering to what Trigger pointed out on how every reply was positve till your post. And it went downhill from there. Just for the hell of it Marzy, you should find the worst release and praise it. Then see how many agree w/ you. Thats why I stick by my monkey see monkey do comment. But we all know your an ape:D :D :D

Silver back actually.......:)

Trigger - not at all, i said it twice in my post, i think the texture is really great, just some smarter dodging will do wonders to the skin.

I thought your post was a really good one Mortar, and was spot on what you was saying.

Originally posted by Trigger


I'm a bit surprised everyone in the begining of the thread said how they liked the texture, but once Marzy spoke ill of the texture, everybody since has appeared eager to jump on the bandwagon. I know he's a respected member of the community, but feel free to make up your own oppinions on things. If that is your oppinion, you don't have to wait until someone like Marzy mentions it to speak your peace. This is nothing personal against anyone, just an observation.

Well like i said earlier it was not easy making that post, i never made it to pull Malarkey down, but quite the opposite, i made it to try and help him improve on his skinning methods. And i'm sure everyone else thats posted about not being keen on the skin for what ever reasons, wish him to improve aswell. And i also don't think they are following suit because of my post, just for the sake of it, i mean thats like calling them all shallow which is not true. I genuinely think that some just happen to agree with me, and theres nothing more to it then that.

Originally posted by Mortar

anyway sniper spike, you better look what's "rong" in the skin rather in Marzy's critic ;]

-Mortar.

ok, ok, yes i c the light!
lol
ya i c there is light oh the atual revolving thingy and a little on the top, so i guess they had a tiny flash light in a dark room shinig on that spot :p

I doubt there's much steam left in the argument, but we shall see.

I understand what you're saying here, and you bring up valid points, but I don't entirely agree with your conclusion. You do point out a few errors on the texture, most obviously on the hammer and about the trnasparencies on the cylinder. The second part of your pic, however, is a bit misleading.

Certainly at that point in the reload animation, the underside and back of the cylinder and the other parts you pointed out should be exposed to the light, but given the fact that the great majority of the time those parts are in different positions, and rightfully obscured by shadows, the lighting there is perfectly adequate 90% of the time. The same is true for the part under the hammer, it is almost completely covered during most of the time it would be seen, to the point where no highlite would be visible.

You have to take into account that given that lighting isn't dynamic in HL, the lighting has to be approximated to the most common position of the gun, in this case the idle animation.

When you say that this texture differs from the look of a real Webley, you're visiting the intentions of the artist without knowing what they are. Malarkey never said that he was attempting to recreate the look of a real webly, so pointing out that the coloring of the texture is incorrect is irrelevant.

Originally posted by MaRzY
What was that about monkeys {CoR} ez ....... :D The viewes and oppinions expressed by ez are his own and not necessarily that of Trigger or his subsidiaries.

Nice disclaimer Trigger. Hopefully the lawsuits will be dropped :D :) ;) :rolleyes:

:eek:

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

nice sig gab ;)

:D :D :D