I've been re-clipping some of the models in glider and a few other maps that will be released to try and do a better job. If there's any model currently released you need, or you'd like me to clip let me know and I'll zip up what I have and post it.

I do have a advanced version of hammer that allows me to see the models sub_groups but I'm not allowed to release it...however, since I've finished up working on my maps I have some free time and can pull some of those models out and provide fairly tight clips for you guys to use in your maps. I did a nice hedgehog and destroyed panzer last night.

So...post your requests here...I'll put you all in a queue and get to you as I can.

Damn you and your special Hammer. I don't really have any requests personally, I usually clip myself. But I'm sure there are people who'd take up on the offer.

You should just do like every sub model. I almost never use submodels for the whole clipping-what-I-can't-see reason. I know the method, it is just so tedious.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
I do have a advanced version of hammer that allows me to see the models sub_groups but I'm not allowed to release it...

how does a briefcase with $10 bills amounting to 1 million sound. ;) . it will be left in a dustbin on 5th Avnue at midnight. leave the CD there :p

i just do trial and error and i can clip it pretty well.

lol...you guys are too much! If I get the time I'll redo the model zoo deal and try and re-clip more stuff. In the meantime the offer stands...if you have a particular model you'd like clipped just let me know

the current model zoo is crap. There are so few models, some of the models arent even 1.0+ (like the shermans) and the clipping jobs are horrible.

I remember downloading the model zoo and none of them were correct + there were a bunch of unloaded solids because of errors.

Yeah a new model clip with every standard 1.2 model and submodel would be super...and time filling :D

Please FD... clip those ****ing pipes...

by_pipe_set you know...

PD: /we want that hammer version too! x)

Originally posted by TheCarnage55
the current model zoo is crap. There are so few models, some of the models arent even 1.0+ (like the shermans) and the clipping jobs are horrible.

I'm operating on the premise that I would create a NEW model zoo based on models I use in my maps (and a few others)...so don't worry. But...to level set...It'll take time because I can prolly only get one in a night and as you know...I'm fairly slow on things.

All the sandbags need redoing >_< god how many whines have there been about them?

i thought that the sandbags in the model zoo were really the only models that were clipped well.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
...however, since I've finished up working on my maps I have some free time ....

FD, can you truly say you're "finished with your maps"?
Seems like your always tweaking....and testing....
....(Comments: DoD_Falaise 1.2xyz :) )

When you gonna quit that PowerPoint gig and work for Valve full-time? LOL

Originally posted by Sly Assassin
All the sandbags need redoing >_< god how many whines have there been about them?
I've seen the brushes that clip the sandbags, and they can't be much better. The only thing I think that really causes this is the screwy bullet penetration. It doesn't behave like you think it would. So many times you're shooting at a guy and an inch of wall saves him so he can work you. And of course, following the rules of "wtf" when you're in the same spot you always get shot through the same wall.

An accurately clipped hedgehog would be worth its weight in gold to me. I have the 'handicapped' version of worldcrash, errr hammer, the one that locks up at will and refuses to render even sprites now, but thats okay because i map by esp anyway.
:)
o, and one falling tree please,

So, when is this newer version of hammer going to reach the masses?

(off subject) he prob doesnt know, dont ask. this thread is for clipping models.

When its available we will all know and have a dandy new thread to go "woot" in. Mkay?

Hedgehog...not perfect...but OK. BTW...it's upside down so you can bury part of the legs into the sand/dirt/whatever and not get the blacked out model deal (the ground point is at the top)...make sure you do not click "fall to ground" or the hedgehog will fall through your map...you must manually place it

thx Fuzzdad, i'll mess with it.

Originally posted by greenhorn
thx Fuzzdad, i'll mess with it.

lol...no need too...it's a more-than-acceptable clip

Is it modified 3.X Hammer or that made for HL2 ?

It's modified hammer...it's not the HL2 editor

Originally posted by FuzzDad
It's modified hammer...it's not the HL2 editor

yeah and honestly you're not missing that much using it. also don't ask us about it cause we can't give it out. Wait for HL2 editor...it will be better anyway.

Originally posted by greenhorn
...... I have the 'handicapped' version of worldcrash, errr hammer ......

:p LMFAO !!! HAHAHAH
this is the first time i have laught of someting one of u have said at this forum !!! :p

HRMMM .... ok sry ....

cool fuzzy..very kind of you! :) could you please post the clip of the rock_japan_rooftop.mdl you used in glider1.2 ?:>

Yea...I will but first I need to redo it...right now it's really just a series of stairs and some of the edges stick out too much.

hehe thx :) i have this problem of the stairs too and don't like it ;) i thought your one felt "rounder" ^^..

Just a note, when using those material textures for clipping/bullet-blocking, use extremely high texture scales (64x64, 100x100, etc. for example...) because even though the brushes are rendered as "invisible" and doesn't add to the wpoly, it actually adds to the compile time's RAD MAX patches. Apparently, there is no ZHLT light flag that says "Don't light this entity". Therefore, RAD will compile the invisible brush-clips as if they are patches to be lighted by the engine. So, to reduce the compile time, you MUST scale those invisible brush textures up by an extremely high texture scale, so RAD detects less patches on those...

Furthermore, detailed clips also add to the clip nodes. But to solve this problem, simply cover FULLY the unnecessary brush details with simplistic clip brushes. Thus, CSG (i think you might need to use clipnode economy mode which is On by default), will discard those extraneous clip hulls that are already covered by another clip hull. For the players, this helps prevent "player stuck" problems on complicated brushes as well.

So, essentailly, you are not just "clipping" (because clipping solely refers to blocking player movement). Rather, a more proper term would be you are "applying invisible material-specific solids with the purpose of blocking bullets accruately" as well as providing simple "clipping".

lol glidias ..every thread u post in becomes scientific ;)
anyway - good to know the rad thingie :>

Actually...GLidias has a great point about using the clip texture...I use them extensively on the roofs to keep players in the map where I want them to stay but also to reduce clip hulls created by complex "stickY" spots on a map. You also can have your "bullet-stopper" clips so complex that the engine draws them in a way where you can get stuck in them (like falling through the map in some spots)...in those cases I always but simplistic clip-texture clips over the offending area and it clears it right up.

Also...while making your "bullet-stopper" clips (invisible func_walls) make them slightly than the mode itself...the clan guys depend on super-sharp aim and I'll bet it pisses them off no end to fire two feet to the left of a streetlamp in Chemille and hit the bullet-stopper. You then put the clip-texture clip over your bullet stopper func_wall and make it slightly larger than the bullet stopper clip.

I also do not put bullet-stopper clips on things like the barbed wire models and other really small models...most bullets would normally pass through them so it's a waste of time and resources to detail out smaller bullet stoppers...I just put a regular clip-brush clip over them.

Another trick is to use clip brush clips to reduce the size of something that normally you'd have to jump over...like a small step that's too high...you can add a small clip on the ground next to the step that's too high and that way the player can just motor over the section without having to jump and you not having to completly redesign the area to get the steps in line with 16 units or less (sloppy trick...but it has it's uses)

I notice that use in some maps, and I have done it myself, but as a player I know when something should be walkable or jumpable by just looking at it, and it seems odd when you end up walking over something that is obviously more than 16 units. I think a better idea is to just add anything right there (slab of stone, rubble, piece of wood...) to act as a visable step. I think it makes it feel less forced.

try those pesky dirt piles, they tend to block every shot close to them (talking about ones like in donner's clipping of them)

FD did you clip charlie_shingle.mdl? :cool:

No...I have not don't that one...but here's a clip for the 88mm. I did sub_group 0 and 1 (as hammer lists sub_groups; the "good" version and "destroyed" version). They are fairly complex, consist of a func_wall and a regular clip box (I put the regular clip box around the complex parts so you can't get stuck in it), and for the most part the actual metal bullet-stopping clip is INSIDE the model so you should be able to shoot through the slots in the weapon.

Clix for Blue-Screen Pic of 88mm Clip-job (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/88mm.jpg)

*Hugs Fuzzdad* the clip looks a dam lot better then the old one did :) And i like it how theres now gaps between parts on the 88 sweet clip :)

Using!

Hopefully this should fix the problem of me falling out the map near my 88... a real pain :P

Originally posted by Ginger Lord
Using!

Hopefully this should fix the problem of me falling out the map near my 88... a real pain :P
Something sounds a bit awry with that one. :rolleyes:

Its weird...its still there...something is fubared lol. I even removed the models and clips, its like the floor is like quicksand and you just sink through it, then out the bottom of the map and you fall through the never ending void....

:confused:

Great work there FD, looks almost perfect, oh wait it is perfect :P
now why can't other models be like that ;[

non the less keep it up :D

But the biggest question to me is why there is a such thing as clipping ?
why can the model visable border as it renders be used as a cliping map ? my mind can't understand that ;[ maybe im too stupid i dunno.

seems logical to me that after you finish modeling something you get some extra 3d shape which is not the model but the hitbox and you can edit it, scale/move it to create things like the chralie beach tank blocks and give it things like "opacity" to define it's peneteration levels.

i wish someone could explain it to me.

HL2 models have their own mass and clips...it's just not something built-in...and yea...I think you could export a model and import it into hammer and make a "perfect" clip...but you'd have a TON of faces that are just not needed.

As to your "quicksand"...occasionally I get that too and for the life of me I have no clue why...my best guess is the map is prolly really high on planes and it's just HL burping. When I find them I usually give up and place a clip over it...there was one in glider where you could fall through the floor and walk around under the map...I fixed that particular one with a invisible func_wall.

Yeah I could understand it if it was on a really complex brush, or at the joining of two brushes, but it was smack bang in the centre of a flat square brush. I just put a rubble pile over it and its fixed, I did try a clip but it still went through it.

It's usually not the brush you fall through that's the issue...it's another brush that intersects that particular brush...even if it's a brush that's 1000's of units away...that's why it's so frustrating. What I've found over the last few years is the higher the plane count, the higher the frequency; if you have minor compile errors ("Warning: Leaf portals saw into leaf")...the higher the frequency; multiple brushes in the area that do not join at exactly 90 degrees. Stuff like that. I seem to get them more easily on rubblized or area's where I have complex parts...I think because the rubble is usually a complex brush in terms of face presentation and at high face counts the engine starts to burp during compile trying to create the necessary clip hulls. And...the really funny thing is some of them I can only get to fall through if I'm crouching...so it must also have something to do with the way the player interacts w/the world.

I've also had it occur on flat walls...where the floor joined the wall. The only thing I've been able to do to fix it is do the extra brush or clip-deal...it's compile-hell baby.

Yeah it only happened when I crouched or went prone, fine when I ran over it. Certainly a "wtf" :confused: moment.

Originally posted by FuzzDad
HL2 models have their own mass and clips...it's just not something built-in...and yea...I think you could export a model and import it into hammer and make a "perfect" clip...but you'd have a TON of faces that are just not needed.

are the clips being rendered or something ?
our video cards/cpus calculate them as polygons?

Yeah, the model clips count toward w_poly. It wouldn't if mappers used the CLIP texture, but then bullets would go right through the models. Plus, if you are going to make a really complex model clip, you might as well bag the model and just put textures on your clip.

Here's the re-clipped tank from donner

Originally posted by Jello_Biafra
Yeah, the model clips count toward w_poly. It wouldn't if mappers used the CLIP texture, but then bullets would go right through the models. Plus, if you are going to make a really complex model clip, you might as well bag the model and just put textures on your clip.
This is incorrect, they don't add to wpoly if they're set to texture = 0. They do add faces and are light-mapped etc. so they count towards you allowances in map compiles (planes etc.) and such but do not add to w_poly.