Thanks to the input of this community and the 1911 community, i have brought dod_siracusa to completion. This map was created for clan base play, and i hope it serves its purpose well :)

now it's time for screenshots. these are just some of the new improvements in the map, the rest are for you to discover :)

http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/axisexit1.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/axisexit2.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/axisbags.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/lowbridgeside.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/house.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/houseandstairs.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/stairwaytohell.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/newladder.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/climbing.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/newlighting.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/lesscamp.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/fancy.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/firstcasualty.jpg

NOW FOR THE DOWNLOAD!
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa.bsp
http://phoobarred.net/~monkey/dod_siracusa.bsp

Enjoy! (and no *****ing about it being ugly... i aint an artist!)

If it plays well i don't care what it looks like.

Good job.

;X

1. Post your map releases in the mapping forums like everyone else. I´m asking you to do so because everyone else follows the rules as well. Thank you. *has been fixed by mod, thank you :)*

2. You´re missing a readme.txt with proper credits, a map text file with proper credits, an overview file... in general, you don´t even tried to put the map into a zip archive to make the download smaller. Oh well.

3. Dod mod staff wuves teh 1911ers and therefore I wuv you too :D

4. I doubt anyone is going to play this except some of the people you know over there at that other forum (gotta love them :D ) if you keep the map at the current state. I like good gameplay, yes, but I also like my eyes and they´re gonna be burned out if I play that map for longer than 5 minutes. How about you use some different textures and add at least some basic details to your map?

5. Don´t ever say "NO *****ing about xy." If you post your map here, expect to get critiscm from almost everyone. Rarely you´ll find a map which satisfies everyone. But coming into here, posting it into the wrong forum and then telling people "no to ***** because you ain´t a artist", well, that´s going to fail for sure. If you only want to have people who kiss your ass for such a product, I suggest you don´t post the map here. This is Dodmod after all (You know, those evil people who try to ruin the game for poor "pr0 clanners"), and we like fancy textures, sandbags and map models. Besides that we have lot´s of experienced mappers and texture artists posting here, and I doubt most of them are going to be happy about the visual result of your work.

im sorry ti say but 1911 is stupid


I'm sorry to say, but that remark was stupid.:rolleyes:

If thats all someone has to say in a map release thread, then its not worth the energy of typing the response in the first place. It's not even criticism of any type, shape or form.

I'll say it right now.......the minute this thread kicks of on a 1911 v DoDMod kinda track, I'm deleting posts without warning, rather than close the thread, which would be unfair on the original mapper/poster.

So think before you type.

No flaming/trolling.

Shuss now.



*Moved to Mapping*

I agree with rotkopf.

^ yup!

uhm...and funny names you used there for the jpegs *~*
btw..whats the last shots use??? i know how a dead ally looks like :confused:

I like it a lot, from the screenshots it looks really nice, I would play it but my PC is down - the first thing I do when I get it working again is play this map.

Well it looks better than it did.

Theres not much I can add, Rot has said most of it.

The no *****ing part....if your not an artist why are you making maps :confused:

@Rotkopf. Your crusade against 1911 is getting pretty old, and just because you put a smiley after a sentence, doesnt mean it wont piss people off or serve as provocation.

@Orbmonkey. Even though the map doesnt look very good, I'm sure your future maps will. Hopefully the map will have good gameplay. And congrats on finishing your map, thats the hardest part.

Not a sandbag in sight :D

I ran around with shrikebot and let me tell you this. Sgt.dont_call_me_a_**** got spawn camped into oblivion. That son of a ***** could not get me. hahahaha

Originally posted by Ginger Lord
Well it looks better than it did.

Theres not much I can add, Rot has said most of it.

The no *****ing part....if your not an artist why are you making maps :confused:

level designers are....designers, not artists... hence the designer in the term..... level designer.

but yeah I guess it's cool for a first map. Keep working on your architecture, collect reference pictures from google and keep trying. Maybe one day you'll have something cool enough to put the 1911 disses to a rest.... whatever the hell 1911 has to do with the map anyway.

If it's fun to play, then I'll be there. :D

heh, 1911 didn't help make the map, they helped fix problems in the map through their input. i did all the work/concepts, they just helped me eliminate problems they might have.

and thanks for the compliments rotkopf, nice to know someone out there is trying to encourage people. :)

since the map only took me about 4 days of actual work, and is intended for clan play, i left out all the extras. and the map isn't really large enough to need a zip anyhow. it might take 1-2 minutes to download on 56k. oh noes, insensitive me :(

i'm just happy to see that the same attitude i told you not to bring in my earlier thread (because i already acknowledged all of your negative comments before anyone said them in general there) has wormed it's way in here. nice going. please don't post in this thread if you're just going to insult people without providing the least of constructive advice or an idea or two. thanks.

Also, most of the stuff in the first paragraph was sarcastic, dodmod boards did very little to help this map except a few people who had the ego control to not yell about things for no reason.

Also, about the moving... I read the sticky shane posted, and my gist of it was that you could post a beta in here, not the general, but releasing it in general was fine. Sorry for the misinterpretation, but then again, if you want custom maps to be supported, wouldn't allowing full releases on the general forum get the word out a bit more? ah well.

it's funny you know, the first page of comments on this map at 1911 was nothign but good stuff for the most part(haven't checked it since last night, hope it hasn't gone south! lol!), i think one guy complained about not being able to open a door. Just goes to show the difference in mentality between map 'artists' and map 'designers'. hey, at least my map should get played some.

I think an overview and a txt file would make more people be tempted.

@ Rotkopf - Hey dude, think your comment was a bit harsh on this one. Not all 1911 are bad blokes you know, some of them are admittedly idiots, but you get idiots in every community, and should never generalise based on a few people. So your generalisation is harsh.

@ Orbmonky - Yeah you were fine to be posting in general - no problems there, just been some confusion :)

Also, I'd say your map is good for a first run. Don't expect to be played much, expect it to fade away in the first couple of weeks at the most. Don't expect it to be added to Kustom Kettle.

I'm not saying you have done a bad job there, but the effort most definately is there seeing as its one of the first maps you made (or the first??) - My map looked something like that when I first made it, I think I remember I did release it on these forums - it was a Knives/Spades map and it did look awful - and people said it looked crap, but I knew it wasn't going to be retail standard straight away. (hey just look at the pics yourself!! - http://www.dodmappers.com/http/projects/El%20Capitan/dod_roflmao/1.jpg and http://www.dodmappers.com/http/projects/El%20Capitan/dod_roflmao/2.jpg)

Where I am going here is - you will pick up new skills, learn about how to map more creatively and get the most looks/performance out of your future maps. Combined with the effort you have obviously put in to this one (I would have spent weeks rather than days, but as with my first one it doesn't matter) I am sure you will release some good maps in the future :)

Sorry, another alcohol-influenced post, but guess u know what I'm trying to say :P

If you plan on a 2nd version I have some more comments:

-a basic translucent overview

-maybe a simple crate or two to take cover behind while capping the two man flags... somethings that won't you leave as vunerable to nade attacks but yet won't kill computers like mine

-quicksand by allies 1st... I thought your previous betas of this map had a good water texture... why the change?

-1+ more exit for the axis... I like that you have the ramps instead of the ladder in this version though.

I read your 1911 thread and it seems to me like you're getting better constructive critique and compliments. I'd rather listen to them.

thanks for the rational, polite criticism el capitan and howitzer.

I am planning on a version 2, and i will be putting more work into it, and i might spruce it up with things like the txt file and the overview.

and yes, this is my first map i've finished, i've worked on a few, but hell i just recently figured out how to properly align textures, i'll get the pretty stuff down eventually. that's sort of the reason i offered to do a clan map, i have a pretty good understanding of how to balance a map, but i'm not a graphical king (more like a joker), so i went with a clan map because it would fit easier with my skill set. it's just sad that some people can't understand that and feel they have to tear you down for trying.

Yeah you need at least 2 if not 3 ways out of spawns, and not all of em in view of one place either.

A overview and txt file should be standard proceedure, not something to spruce it up.

Originally posted by OrbMonky
Also, about the moving... I read the sticky shane posted, and my gist of it was that you could post a beta in here, not the general, but releasing it in general was fine. Sorry for the misinterpretation, but then again, if you want custom maps to be supported, wouldn't allowing full releases on the general forum get the word out a bit more? ah well.

Well, if you 100% intend this as the final release, feel free to repost in general. If there's any chance at all you expect to update it or you consider it an expiremental (part of your learning process) map, it should always go here only.

I hope that makes sense? I'll take a look at it tonight. :)

alright then, i'll post the next one (the final FINAL release :p ) in general hehe. it should look a lot better, other then a few gameplay tweaks i'll be doing my absolute best to improve the graphical quality without sacrificing performance. I would REALLY apreciate input on how i could spruce up the map, rather then simple chiding for not having a pretty map. if you have ideas for what might look good where, or how to generally improve something visually, i'm all ears, just keep it rational and polite :)


all spawns have 2 exits, one spawn exit is a split exit (the allies beach exit spawn). currently i'm considering how to make another exit for the axis that makes sense, isn't campable, and doesn't put them in a useless area as the cap point is on the bridge. currently the people on 1911 say it's hard to get out of the axis spawns sometimes.

other improvements in the pipe are switchign around the shop and the brown building at the market so the shop doesn't cover the allied 1st flag at all and is focused on the axis 2nd, and also it makes the building on the cliffs with the window that looks at the shop more useful for countering this position. as well the secondary path to that area is now more accesable to the allies because of this. another thing is i've added accesability to one room that wasn't there before to diversify action within one area. i've redone some things graphically and reapplied the earlier water texture (the one in the release is admittedly complete ass, i wasn't paying attention to it much when i changed it). Also i will be adding cover at the double and single flags. i'm trying specifically to avoid boxes/crates or models, as boxes/crates and barrels are in EVERY MAP EVER. i'm contemplating making a tall woodpile or rock outcrop to defend from grenades at the beach, some craters to hide in near the plaza and a destroyed building with some rubble blown out in the market.

Few tips if I may...

- Search around the internet for every damn texture file you can find thats usable for DoD and add them using wally to your own wad file. Select the textures appropriate to the setting and make sure they are consistant. I noticed some of your slopes were textured differently to other surfaces and looked out of place. If you can't find the texture you want, make your own...take some photos...hey, take someone elses texture and edit it to your own needs (give them credit) - Use the eraser tool with soft edge in photoshop, fireworks, any graphics package to create smooth transitions between the different textures!

- Setup worldcraft the way you want it to be, its fairly flexible...make sure you know what they keys on the keyboard do and mostly all of the buttons.

- Make use of the clip tool as much as you can, clicking it again allows you to split the brush, or remove sides off it. Experiment with it until you know exactly how to use it, this way you can create ruined effects on walls, etc - but don't go over the top and get carried away!!

- Use the vertex manipulation tool too for more minor adjustments, and constantly use the "check for problems" option to make sure you do not create any bad vertices, faces, etc...if worldcraft can't repair them satisfactorily, delete the brush and start again!

- Select good models (see the ones included with dod and this thread: http://dayofdefeat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29859 for custom models) and make sure it is appropriate for the map and include them in a structured zip file. Again, don't get carried away!!

- Read the tutorials on the excellent site, http://www.mardymouse.co.uk and try to incorporate as many of the tutorials into your map, without going over the top once again...you can adapt these tutorials to your own needs!! Also check out http://collective.valve-erc.com !!

- Don't be afraid to ask questions, just head over to the mapping support forum here, just make sure you abide by the rules and try to find out for yourself first!!

- Don't go ahead and release the final version without getting feedback here first, unless you are entirely confident your map will be liked!

- Get creative...add rubble here, try experimenting with brushes and entities...do something different and original that will make your map stand out from the others!

- Pay attention to lighting, adjust the lighting and recompile constantly, even if it takes 70 hours or so!!

- Think about the other maps you have played, what the scenario may be like in real life....question yourself - Would there really be washing hanging across that balcony? Would that slope be that steep? Wouldn't they be steps? Where would that tank have came from, couldn't have come through the wall, theres no ruins!!

- Get motivated!! Don't give up and think your maps going to be a failiure, spend weeks on it, months if needed! Remember, you will never create the perfect map!

Just a few pointers which I have put forward, others may have more to contribute rather than biatch all the time :P - Smile and get down and dirty...er...get mapping :)

Smilies own :):D ;)

yeah, this is the first map i've used the clip tool in, i used it to make the windows in some of the buildings. this has been a big learning experience for me but the people at 1911 seem to like the map pretty well, and are keeping the suggestions flowing. i'm figuring out how to work lighting better and better, and i just might get crazy enough to try that texture gathering idea. one way my map is really lacking is lighting and textures right now, as well as ambient stuff to look at. but i'm trying!

Best place to find .wad files are from the mapping sites you can find in peoples sigs here, or from other custom maps. I've picked heaps up that way :)

Back to school dammit! :)

Orb...great start! Good to see someone trying to work in a clan map...I think we should have a few clan-specific maps in DoD as regardless of the occasional 1911 opinionated issues about the direction of the game they should be able to play maps geared towards their playing style.

As others have said continue to work but keep gameplay issues to the front...if the 1911 guys think it plays well then just do enough eye candy to make it presentable to the whole without alienating them...it's a hard line to walk but if you don't your map might sit well w/them but nobody else will play it...if you're OK with that go for it.

Sometimes posters in here get all agravated as hell and you should just dismiss them out of hand...keep rolling!


PS...the clip tool can be a great friend...but it is also the asshat tool of all time...it can bugger up your map in no time flat should you use it incorrectly

roger that, and hey someone set up a 24/7 siracusa server! hooah!

67.108.100.30:27015

woooooot!

i've already begun work on sprucing it up some to fix spawn exit problems, and will be adding an additional route out of the axis 1st flag area. i will also be adding cover at each of the flag areas and in the more open places (one spot currently is very easy for a kar strafer to sit and camp so im shortening the visible area from one corner). also a few (1-2) buildings/rooms might get opened to add to gameplay in a few areas. other then those the major changes will be graphical, and i'd like any advice anyone has on what might look good where, a balcony here, a crater there, it's all good and i'm open to criticism so long as it's rational.

I was just thinking you could transform the lower middle flag into a small market with the fruit stand crates(you already have one right there) and the such to provide cover. And maybe do something about being able to cover the two flags at once(might be a problem with such a small map). Yeah.

Its good to see you got a server running with the map. Hopefully that will provide you with more suggestions for version2.

its good to see the turn-around this thread has, lets hope the construcitve suggestions will continue to the other maps people release in the future!

This communities short of mappers, so they(we) need all the encouragement possible to get the mapping scene really active as it was before!!

GG all!!

Originally posted by El Capitan
This communities short of mappers, so they(we) need all the encouragement possible to get the mapping scene really active as it was before!!

GG all!!

Yup. I agree.

Orb, when you straighten out the things in this version, I'll get my lot to try it out on our server and report back.

heh, thanks guys :)

and yes, i'm working on a cart with boxes and a few stall shops at the market (that is the place by the shop's name) the plaza will get a fountain directly on the flag and some benches for cover, the balcony mg spot is being moved back to one of these benches (currently too easy to camp the axis 1st flag area, need all the help they can get there). the beach is getting a dock that runs in an L shape from the allied ocean entrance to the shore and will have boxes on it from cover (cause you're a dead duck coming out of it now) and i can add a boat or two out in the area you can't reach since it shouldn't affect performance and won't affect hitboxes. they will be docked on an outreach of the dock that will be roped off or blocked with a box or something. the axis bridge will get some cover in the form of a blown down archway and the long path is getting visually restricted so a k98 can't camp the allied 1st flag from their 2nd flag.

*gulp* that's a bit of work :P ah well most of it's just vertex i can handle that in a snap. making it look good is another story.... heh. i need someone who has a lot of texture/lighting talent to help me out with making it look good :-/

Ok Orb heres some ideas for you, I've just had a look around it and these ideas may help you.

Textures, the cobbles for instance in areas that are lower down then others (seperated by the stairs going up a level) rotate the cobble texture 20 or even 40 degrees and this will stop the cobble texture being so repetive. Do the same with the water textures esp the one at the bridge.

Rock walls, instead of having them dead straight cut them in half or quaters and vetex them so that they slope out more and aren't dead straight down their length.

Building roofs, make the roofs stick out say 5 hammer units from the house walls, this will make them look alot better and give you an easier way to 'pretty' up the map without causing to many problems in the long run.

Walls, these are the ones on the edges of the map with the skybox behind them, maybe throw in some bush edging behind there and turn them into func_walls or something so you can use the transperances in them.

Doors, I noticed on the building down by the bridge that the door sticks out of the building, maybe you should recese it into the building so it looks like its part of the actual building. You've done that with a few of the other doors and they look great.

Beach, perfect place for some craters and more cover, also the big 'rock' is to 'square' maybe chop it up some and change it.
Also where the beach meets the cobbles, you may want to conside having some sort of divider there as it goes from sand straight into cobbles and looks 'wrong', you could lower the beach slightly and have a couple of steps up onto the cobbles to make it look better.

Well these are all ideas for making the map look more pretty as I haven't actually played people on it yet, just had a run around on it by myself before.
Hope some of these ideas help bro :)

actually some very good ideas. i've already retextured almost everything, getting to the prettier textures of a few other wads rather then stick it out with anzio textures which just refuse to look great. the map looks a little darker now but the textures make more sense. i put a bunch of civilian stuff around the map, like a bunk bed and a blown down door and a bookcase and 2 chairs and a table and a rug, all in one house. i have put the hedging up in the axis spawn along the back wall all the way to the bridge where the wall meets the big brick building. the market is going to look a lot more like a market instead of just one shop. going to add a meat shop/stall and a couple of other things in the market area for cover.

about the building roofs, the bottom of them is textured with a cieling texture, if i stretch them out (which i would like to do) it would make the cieling texture stick out, i'll try it but i don't know if it will look that great. if not i guess i'll try adding a unit thick cieling for the cieling textures and just make the bottom of the roof black.

good idea with the rotation, and i'm replacing both the water textures with the choppy green anzio water it seems to look better in my opinion.

the door on the bridge house is already fixed

beach will be getting some cover and be less open. I've also fixed all the 'texture blending' problems i can recall heh.

Glad I could help there Orb :) Its always good to give some constructive critisim and see it being put to use :)

i'll have some screenshots of the new one ready soon, i went bonkers on the textures though so there's like 3.44 mb of them. i have no idea how this affects performance on low end machines but i think it's kinda high, so i'll probably be retexturing them AGAIN to a degree.

i've finished up the axis spawn for the most part with some excellent input from 1911 which both made it look better and function better as a game area, and am now working on the allied spawn exit which will be seeing a dock and some boxes on said dock for cover against snipers/k98s on the beach. after that it's smooth sailing for just a few obstructions in general and sprucing up the market/plaza.

anything under 5 mb is not going to affect anyone´s performance. You do know that the major performance loss in dod 1.1 maps is caused by the massive amount of map models?

You can use good textures as much you like to. Mapmodels and high r-speeds kill fps, not good textures. At least not in the same drastic manner as map models do. So, as long as you don´t use too many fancy trees in your map and keep the r-speeds at main combat areas under 700 you should be fine.

Originally posted by Rotkopf
anything under 5 mb is not going to affect anyone´s performance. You do know that the major performance loss in dod 1.1 maps is caused by the massive amount of map models?

You can use good textures as much you like to. Mapmodels and high r-speeds kill fps, not good textures. At least not in the same drastic manner as map models do. So, as long as you don´t use too many fancy trees in your map and keep the r-speeds at main combat areas under 700 you should be fine.

I don't think I saw a single model apart from the flags on his map, I may be wrong but from what I remember its all brush and texture based

i think the highest wpoly area i have is 728 at the very back of the water on the beach which you can only reach from observer.

thanks for the input on the textures though, didn't know if 3.44 (now 3.51 or so) mb was moderate or high.

screenshots tomorrow, got a fairly good looking version right now but still going through some major tweaks for clan play.

better late then never :P some last minute changes came up so i didn't post em yesterday, but here's the screenshots of the new version!

http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10000.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10001.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10002.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10003.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10004.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10005.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10006.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10007.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10008.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10009.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10010.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10011.jpg
http://plobe.com/~orb/ss/s/dod_siracusa10012.jpg

I'd like some advice as to what to do with boxes. there's an awful lot of them and i'm looking for practical alternatives (things that provide the same cover, potentially stackable) to box box fever. any ideas on that, or other criticism is welcome (just keep it rational and respectful please :) )

hope you guys think this one looks good enough to play, if not i'm going to explode :P

Barrels like in Donner
Chairs
Bathtubs
Rubble w/ Walls
Haystacks
Chairs
Lamps
Cars
Trucks
Tanks

chairs provide almost no cover
barrels might work for the larger boxes
bathtubs heh, model based unfortunately
rubble is doable, but i don't want a ton of it.
haystacks in a city?
lamps as in lamp posts, or actual lamps? im guessing lamp posts.
cars, trucks, tanks are all model based, if i put them in they would have to either be perfectly clipped or put in a spot where they don't interfere with gameplay (like the boat in one of the screenshots, you can't reach it or get behind it in any way so it works great there) but that means they can't work as cover.

i'll replace some big boxes with barrels and see how that works, and see if i can orchestrate a blown out building or two for cover. i tried barrels in replacement of the smaller boxes at the market but they didn't provide the right cover.

thanks for the ideas though

but what did you think of the map's new lighting and all the new foliage and everything, does it look more like a dod map or is it still making you guys want to gouge your eyes out?

Try puting some "Dragons Teeth" in. Like the ones in dod_glider. Those big concrete things, I've started using them a lot myself now.

The textures are looking better. I'd try to use as many standard textures as possible (Just my opinion). Get this lovely peice of sofware to get the latest DoD Steam wads. http://countermap.counter-strike.net/Nemesis/index.php?c=76#p76

I like dod_escape textures at the moment :rolleyes:

Rubble is something you could get away with using on here, I mean look at Jagd the buildings aren't destroyed and theres a ton of rubble in it and it looks good, plus that would cut down on the amount of boxes used aswell and also on the beach a crater or two would work wonders aswell out there :)

And is that a tree in the water down by the bridge or not? cause it looks 'wrong'.

Other then that textures look alot better, lighting is fine and its getting better by the compile :)

can someone please put a link for this map. I can not find it anywhere to download it and I need it for 3v3
Thanks
SB

why the revive of the old thread/

Originally posted by strongbad
can someone please put a link for this map. I can not find it anywhere to download it and I need it for 3v3
Thanks
SB hahaha, i have a feeling this guy is in tpg :)

I have a link for you..

http://downloads.1dod.com/pafiledb.php?action=download&id=249
www.1dod.com

They changed Monday's map from dod_siracusa to dod_carta_b2.