Ok...here's the scenario at round start:

Allies and Axis are on patrol and within 2 or 3 sec after the map starts they run into each other in the center of the map...a instant combat sceanario at round start. After the initial round start they spawn back to the rear as usual in protected spawns. Think about having all the players in Caen start on either side of the statue...like all axis players near axis flag three and all allied players near allied flag three.

Ok...how would you execte that? I have working version but it's buggy...am hunting for thoughts

i'd set a timer to switch the spawn points after....say 1 minute back to the rear spawn points

Nice idea but you have some stuff that holds you...

if you do it in a public server you might want most of the players to get in first before the map starts.
also you wouldn't want to gather them all in the same same spot cause it will be quite annoying...

Ideas... well, delay the respwan time of the first spwan for about... 40 seconds more maybe so you won't have a huge blood bath as the map starts and people will rambo less.
maybe have both teams to start proned? it can be cool as if they hear each other and they all get down carefully.

otherwise i don't think it can work well because in this engine the maps are small and also there is no point creating a fast fight of 10v10 (in avarage lets say...) as the map starts unless it features any special elements to make that first fight important.

hope you or other guys have any better ideas, cheers :]

I got an idea to make it work, place your spawns where you want them to be, place a brush-based capture_point around them and when they spawn they'll automatically cap it and it'll trigger the other spawns.

Get Billy to code in an "on player death" event and use it to trigger a spawn move ;)

Oh I can dream... :)

- Jed

I see at least 3 ways to do this:
use a counter, or a hidden control_point, or 2 env_master.
I'd use 2 env_master. Let's see how:

At the beginning everybody spawns in the middle. These spawns depend on the first env_master (called "spawnmastera", and set to "start on").
Anyone spawning in the middle will automatically be in a trigger_once which will call 2 trigger_relay called spawnb. The first relay sets to "Off" the first env_master, the second relay sets to "On" the second env_master. player_spawns of the back depend on this env_master called "spawnmasterb". Note: the trigger_once has "delay before trigger" set to 2.

Successfully tested with my bost friends LOL ;)
[off-topic]Fuzzdad, any chance to see how you handled the night tracers in Flugplatz? :)[/off-topic]

map & bsp example:

Actually, what I thought would be another excellent idea would be a Para Ambush map. Here's how it works:

Axis must defend some objectives, most of them concentrated in one spot. However, there are 1-2 objectives that are spread out thin at the edges of the map, but are well fortified with sniper positions and MG spots.

Axis spawn at the objectives located throughout the map. And guess where the Allies spawn? :)

Everywhere! They literally spawn everwhere by falling softly to the ground or landing on a tree. They press E to cut the para rope and let themselves fall down. Allies will have no definete spawn area, and rarely will they spawn with a buddy. Thus, it makes it very difficult for the Axis go out hunting for Paratroopers when they are literally surrounded by them. Allies can either work alone to take objectives, or even plan 2-3 man assaults concentrated on one objective.

The maps have to be big and RPGish like. And the replay values on that map would be incredible, plus if this was made a British map people would definetely appreciate the British a whole lot more.

EDIT: BTW, nice sig El Capitan. :D

Originally posted by FuzzDad
Ok...here's the scenario at round start:

Allies and Axis are on patrol and within 2 or 3 sec after the map starts they run into each other in the center of the map...a instant combat sceanario at round start. After the initial round start they spawn back to the rear as usual in protected spawns. Think about having all the players in Caen start on either side of the statue...like all axis players near axis flag three and all allied players near allied flag three.

Ok...how would you execte that? I have working version but it's buggy...am hunting for thoughts

Sounds good to me ;)

Originally posted by Mythic_Kruger
I see at least 3 ways to do this:
use a counter, or a hidden control_point, or 2 env_master.
I'd use 2 env_master. Let's see how:

At the beginning everybody spawns in the middle. These spawns depend on the first env_master (called "spawnmastera", and set to "start on").
Anyone spawning in the middle will automatically be in a trigger_once which will call 2 trigger_relay called spawnb. The first relay sets to "Off" the first env_master, the second relay sets to "On" the second env_master. player_spawns of the back depend on this env_master called "spawnmasterb". Note: the trigger_once has "delay before trigger" set to 2.

Successfully tested with my bost friends LOL ;)
[off-topic]Fuzzdad, any chance to see how you handled the night tracers in Flugplatz? :)[/off-topic]

map & bsp example:


Excellent! I'll give it a go tonight...let's just say this technique might make it's way into one official map should testing prove it's fun. Once I finish up my duties for this next release (I'll be more or less done really soon) I'll cut out the tracer-deal from flugplatz...all those little army parachute dudes and all and post it here.

BTW..for those of you who liked Dog1...the tracers in flugplatz came from Dog1...I wasn't smart enough to figure it out myself so I looked at the Dog1 code and modified it to meet my requirements. In a nutshell it's a combination env_beam tied to sprites pointed at a moving invisible func_train for the aa fire, lights to flash for the effect, and a bunch of models tied to all of this to simulate the paradrop all run by a complex set of multi-managers and renders all tied to a auto_trigger on a timer...phew!

Originally posted by Kamikazi!
Sounds good to me ;)


Heck Kami...it was the tests we had on your Cathedral map that made me think of it...those first several seconds on your map were fun, fun, fun...so I'm trying to make that Instant Combat (tm) deal work in one of our official maps.

I'm also doing it to work w/Unreal on his dod_enemy map...I really like his map (it's been re-configured somewhat) and with "Instant Combat" that map would rock.

Just a quick thought.

Is there any risk/repocussion if a player tries to respawn at the exact same moment the spawns are switching? i.e risk of a crash?

- Jed

Originally posted by Trp. Jed
Just a quick thought.

Is there any risk/repocussion if a player tries to respawn at the exact same moment the spawns are switching? i.e risk of a crash?

- Jed

This results in the person usually getting left out of the new spawn points, thus getting mowed down by the attacking team :)

No...because the technique is to put a large trigger underneath all the initial spawns and it fires the entity that masters them off...so as soon as the round starts...ie..movement of one of the advanced spawn points...those spawn points are shutdown and the rear ones activiated...so no...there should not be any folks spawning in the middle of action after the first spawn...think of the spawn points as a single use spawn

this is exactly the type of thing the initial_spawn entity should have been left in for, and another request of mine: class-specific spawns- ie:the sniper in the loft, mg at the sandbags. Then mappers could really script a battle, and have a built in class limit for the map, only 2 sniper spawns, etc
I would really love a properly functioning tracktrain, lets say a troop transport, with spawns in the back that "move with". Cap the 3rd flag, truck drives up to near that area, spawns move with it, etc etc
as far working with current entities- how abaout a 4 or 5 man cap area with a long captime, for each sides intial spawn area. Giving time for more players to spawn into the caparea, inevitably capping it, (hidden flag) triggers whatever after that.

So if Unreals map enemy gets this close combat spawns introduced will it go into 1.2 or not? He's put a dam lot of work into this map and its looking oh so fine :)

Question:

What about that akward moment at the beginning of the round? I mean... are the teams gonna be sitting on other ends of the battlefield staring each other down, frozen in stance, waiting for someone to yell "Squad, Charge Your Weapons We're Moving Up!"

... I think it's a great idea, but I personally think it'd be slightly weird and "mood-breaking" with the whole "10 second delay before you can do anything" deal..

Let's just say that when we've playtested it has been a lot of fun...you add a "Enemy Ahead" wav file to both sides and off you go...a lot of combat in WW2 centered around one side sending a patrol out and running into a patrol from the other side...this simulates that encounter followed by regular replacement flow immediately afterward. Will it work? I don't know...but we're going to try it in testing and see how it goes.

Originally posted by Sly Assassin
So if Unreals map enemy gets this close combat spawns introduced will it go into 1.2 or not? He's put a dam lot of work into this map and its looking oh so fine :)


I neither control nor vote on which maps are included...all I do is help some folks when I either see talent or they ask for help and I have the bandwidth and desire to pitch in. In this case I worked with Unreal to develop a flag-based map from his original objective map and I think it's pretty good...he has a great eye for things.

nades would win the map.

I like the overall idea, but I don't like that you'll be able to see the enemy right off the bat.

I think it would be much better if they were very close but in a building or something hidden. The only problem with this is that dod's maps are so linear and lack a lot of buildings or separate area's that you could separate the teams in.

So, its in Caen eh? Perfect map, Ill show you why.

If you want the teams to square off close to the center at each other, then start the axis team in the Bank/Museum and the British in the opposite bldg sometimes referred to as "k-mart"

Since the new version sports larger areas:

Heres my argument

1. Provides enough space for both teams with multiple stories
2. You are covered at the initial spawn
3. Multiple exits either to the front, rear and/or side
4. Still at the center of the map

--Spawn the teams on mulitple stories
--provide adequete warm up time like the para maps
--provide tnt or satchels to blow the escape routes

Enclosed is a picture of the plan

--VoodooChild

http://voodoo.dssgr.net/caen_overview.JPG

please make sure there's no way to aim before you're allowed to move.... kar.... enfield... sniper... gah.
play awp_map in cs, and you'll know what i mean. it's waaay too easy to just line up the sights and kill someone at the start of a round...

I'd like caen to have some more buildings, and as far as the movable spawn goes...I think the germans should have a flag in the bank that allowed them to spawn in there, and the brits one in the house opposite on the bank. Those houses might need some work then of course. Be built bigger and with more spots.


Ah I don't know...tired...will sleep now.

1) It's not in Caen...no rumors please...I just used that as an example.
2) You can't see the other guys at first because (yes) you're on opposite ends of a building complex but on a "S-turn" road so within a few seconds you're going to run into them.

Yea...I didn't mean to make it seem like you could physically see the other guy at first...that was my first rule because knowing you guys like I do...it would be like two firing squads lined up.

Come on...give me some credit here...hehe :)

Originally posted by greenhorn
this is exactly the type of thing the initial_spawn entity should have been left in for, and another request of mine: class-specific spawns- ie:the sniper in the loft, mg at the sandbags. Then mappers could really script a battle, and have a built in class limit for the map, only 2 sniper spawns, etc


Well, currently you need to have some trigger that would player_weaponstrip the player and game_player_equip a particular player with a sniper rifle or something. Of course, you've got to be the "lucky" one to spawn at that spot that would give you the sniper rifle and a cool location to hold back enemies while your squad miles behind u is advancing to relieve you. Thus, it isn't very class specific, but you could deifnitely script a battle! Just use mapname.cfg to disiable snipers!

You can also do a sv_maxspeed command or sv_friction command in mapname.cfg to provide a slower more realistic pace of play. USeful for RPG maps or Small maps.

Instant action definitely sounds good. You could also have player spawn behind enemy lines rather than the rear, so there's instnat action for 'em immediatley.

Originally posted by Trp. Jed
Get Billy to code in an "on player death" event and use it to trigger a spawn move ;)

Oh I can dream... :)

- Jed

There is already a game_playerdie event in HL, DoD, and any other HL mod!, and it works. Just name any of your entities with game_playerdie and it would trigger when a player dies! There's more events to take advantage of!
http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?doc=1047683808-21957700
You can even create deathmatch mode for DoD if u wish by giving a game_playerscore entity a targetname of game_playerkill, so the triggering player earn pts for killing a player regardless of teams! Use the mapname.cfg to turn on friendly fire.

Or a stealth recon map where killing is NOT allowed. If game_playerkill occurs (1 or too many times), the game is up! The 4-6 man stealth team must be sneaky and sight as many locations before extractig out.

Another idea: USe the game_zone_player entity to cover the spawnzone and give the entity a targetname of "game_playerspawn" and an INSIDE target of a game_counter. It becomes checks for players inside the zone whenever a player spawns, and it checks how many guys have spawned in that area as a trigger_push in that area "pushes" 'em outta the zone. (You could make 'em spawn in the air as they drop down..ensuring they can't enter back into the spawn zone/spot again). Then, each player that triggered the game_zone_player due to being inside it would trigger the game_counter respectively, and when the game_counter reaches its limit, it will disable the spawns at that particular area (or trigger an env_score entity that ends the game or perhaps restart the round). Good for limited reinforements.

In a map with spawns areas all around the edges of the map for the attacking team, have a Command Post area for a commander to toggle on/off spawn areas accordingly and deterimine the best spawn thrust attack to strike the enemy territory. (Or if they are defending, determine the most important area to defend if somehow they are surrounded.) However, once reinforcements in a particular spawn thrust area is exhausted or lost to the enemy, the commander loses control of that area.

one problem i see with mythic's suggestion.

Person A joins the game, sets off trigger

Person B, C, D, E, F and G join game spawn at rear spawn points.

That's why u can use a game_zone_player/game_counter combination or a simple dod_capture_area would do.

then theres a problem when it comes to people wanting a 2 vs 2 or even a 16 vs 16, what would u set the count to?

If you set a timer, you get people respawning more than once but if its set for a reasonable time, you still get that instant combat feeling...maybe even make the spawns slowly move back to the rear spawns throughout the map, every say...2 minutes or something

just an idea anyway :)

It's on a five sec delay and all those players joining late...well...they're replacement soldiers being rushed in so no big deal...and all of them will then spawn the next round in "Instant Combat" mode.

My only fear is that it will be initially confusing so I need to use a screen and voice prompt to make sure folks understand they've been dropped into the middle of a firefight that's going to start in a few seconds. The only map that has what I would call a close approximation to this is Charlie...you're only two sec away as a german to firing on the allies...all I'm doing is replicating that on a more traditional map.


Glidias...man...you have WAY too much time on your hands...lol...but I didn't know about the game_playerdie entity and I'll check that out...there are a lot of possibilities there.

Here's an idea, what about having parachutes? You start off on a C-47, grab a parachute, jump out and press 'e' to open it, then float down. You could move slightly in mid-air, and land at certain points. (Not near the other spaw, though.) I think this would lead to some interesting things, and make flanking a lot easier.

Just a thought.

Parachutings always an idea thats favoured by many people, and I recon it will appear in future versions.

How about this scenario:

Players spawn, bombers fly over heads and explode buildings - rubble fulls around the area enclosing them in just a small zone of the map, so they have no choice but instant combat....then supplies parachute in, a box appears with TNT and both teams have to "explode" the rubble around them to get back to their base and radio in an airstrike or something, its a scenario which may just fit in well with this type of concept.

The possibilites are practically endless to how this concept can be included in a map!

Originally posted by DarkLite
Here's an idea, what about having parachutes? You start off on a C-47, grab a parachute, jump out and press 'e' to open it, then float down. You could move slightly in mid-air, and land at certain points. (Not near the other spaw, though.) I think this would lead to some interesting things, and make flanking a lot easier.

Just a thought.

If only dod_object could allow you to attach custom .mdls to the carrying player, it woudl rock. Imagine upon jumping outta the C47 door, u pick up one of the invisible parachute .mdl dod_objects which causes the parachute model to spring up some time later in the model animation sequence!! You hit the trigger_gravity and on the way down, hear lots of terrifying sounds. When u hit the ground (with yr dod_object), you captured the dod_object as the ground consist of a dod_capture_area, and the "target when captured" for that particular object will give you a certain loadout of weapons by triggerring a game_player_equip!

Or even better, code it in LOL, i really wish to make a jump ...a high one spanning the entire grid distance!

cant the teleporter be used? so like when they are high up the may see only a giant model and then when they get closer, they teleport into a seperate area (trying to make it without noticing). u know what i mean?

Nah...give up the parachuting dudes...too many entities and not enough time in my life...someone did make a parachuting map a long time ago (two years?) but it was cludgy at best. It's hard enough to make your map balanced, look good, and play smoothly without having to add all that stuff in using entities that were never intended to be used for those purposes...perhaps it's a good map exercise to hone your mapping skills...but no more than that.

My guess is the dev team will either build it into the code for DoD2 or it's already there in the HL2 source code.

Originally posted by El Capitan
one problem i see with mythic's suggestion.

Person A joins the game, sets off trigger

Person B, C, D, E, F and G join game spawn at rear spawn points. What happens, is that everybody spawns in the middle. At the same time. They are blocked by the game during a few seconds ("Los los prepare for Sturmangriff" LOL) and then when round really starts -ie they can shoot- they do trigger the trigger_once. Try the bsp with your bost friends.

what i mean is, person a has adsl and they connect in seconds and they spawn and the round starts, blah blah....then a minute later the 56k users, B C D and E pile in....they are stuck spawning in the original location and lose out!!

They'll enjoy the next round :p

It's amost the same technique used in Charlie...so it's not going to be an issue...lol...you guys think too much!

Nah...give up the parachuting dudes...too many entities and not enough time in my life...someone did make a parachuting map a long time ago (two years?) but it was cludgy at best. It's hard enough to make your map balanced, look good, and play smoothly without having to add all that stuff in using entities that were never intended to be used for those purposes...perhaps it's a good map exercise to hone your mapping skills...but no more than that.

FuzzDad, you have crushed my dreams. :( *begins sobbing*

I like the "Instant Combat" idea and hope it is added to several maps in the future.

**Off topic** Glidas: what is the name of the map in your sig? It looks so pretty and I want to play it! /**Off topic