Maybe we should start out coming in the boats...and make the boats close enough for the machine guns to be in-range

to give the axis time to get all their machine guns mounted...

it would make it more realistic....cuz i know that allied forces didn't apear on the beach...

I like that idea too but, first you got to find some good boat models that won't lag the map. Great idea though.

I had the same idea:

- The allies have to wait 15 secs,inside the higgins boat and when the 15 secs is up the ramp opens and they rush out,

-MG's fire as soon as the allies come out.

- 2 boats will work, One closer to the beach itself and one farther down the channel.

- To help the allies when they come out, have a tank barrier in front of the boat so the Mgs will have a hard time gunning down the allies.

- To survive while in the second boat, they will have to swim ashore, have the boat lower so people can jump out of them, ( as seen in SPR ).

- When an alllied soldier blows up the shingle, The spawn point for the allies will move up to the beach ( like charlie ). Both boats will be useless after the Shingle has been blown up.

I also think that in Charlie, the allies are too outnumbered and get slaughtered by the axis force. The axis have MG's on higher positions and also sniper, If thats not enough, they also have mortars.
Now i alway thought that in real life the allies had help from bombardments from their ships. SO
have mortar fire coming from the allied side of the map.

do you honestly think that this will happen though?

Originally posted by -Sp|inter
I had the same idea:

- The allies have to wait 15 secs,inside the higgins boat and when the 15 secs is up the ramp opens and they rush out,

-MG's fire as soon as the allies come out.

- 2 boats will work, One closer to the beach itself and one farther down the channel.

- To help the allies when they come out, have a tank barrier in front of the boat so the Mgs will have a hard time gunning down the allies.

- To survive while in the second boat, they will have to swim ashore, have the boat lower so people can jump out of them, ( as seen in SPR ).

- When an alllied soldier blows up the shingle, The spawn point for the allies will move up to the beach ( like charlie ). Both boats will be useless after the Shingle has been blown up.

I also think that in Charlie, the allies are too outnumbered and get slaughtered by the axis force. The axis have MG's on higher positions and also sniper, If thats not enough, they also have mortars.
Now i alway thought that in real life the allies had help from bombardments from their ships. SO
have mortar fire coming from the allied side of the map.

that would probably require alot of entities and up the r_speeds a bit.

And charlie is pretty much at its max for both as it is.

How about we float ashore disguised as logs?

No?

Zero imagination you lot... :(

- Jed

Since when do logs float ashore form the sea? :p

Originally posted by Silverghost
Since when do logs float ashore form the sea? :p

Plenty of stuff drifts ashore from the sea! Although in Blackpool the logs are generally a little smaller and somewhat more turgid.

Anyway, I'll not drag this thread further off topic.

/me bails like his sig

- Jed

if the devs don't do this, than maybe one of the expert mappers can...

i think it would be cool starting off in the boats

its not hard to do for charlie. i mean we dont the allies boats moving forward or anything. Just have them spawn in the boats, with the front up, have the axis 'initial' spawns right up along the front cliffs and bunkers, and then after 5 seconds open the boat doors and let the allies run out. Probably let the allies climb out over the sides as well.

Once the allies blow the shingle, the axis spawns move back to the underground bunks, and the allies spawns can be both in boats and or in the water.

Didn't we start in boats on/in Overlord in 3.1? I rememer never being able to get the bloody door to drop and having to haul arse over the side.

There was also that landing craft which blew up after a while and was 'reet dandy for setting up an MG on.

- Jed

It's practically like this already, you start in the water and just above, there are limitations in team sizes and the rounds wouldn't work properly/resets of the boat position for a team of 16+ (if the server allows an imbalance). It's just not a very plausable idea. It's something that would be fine for single player, but for multiplayer it would hamper the game down having all of the players in a small amount of boats. It would be too easy to unload on a single area with MGs. If you think of the angle of the beach there is no real good way to block the boats without it looking tacky.

Originally posted by -Sp|inter
When an alllied soldier blows up the shingle, The spawn point for the allies will move up to the beach ( like charlie ). Both boats will be useless after the Shingle has been blown up.

I also think that in Charlie, the allies are too outnumbered and get slaughtered by the axis force. The axis have MG's on higher positions and also sniper, If thats not enough, they also have mortars.
Now i alway thought that in real life the allies had help from bombardments from their ships. SO
have mortar fire coming from the allied side of the map.

Personally I don't think the Allies are outnumbered that badly at all. Sure the Axis have the High ground but you'll find most of the time (95%) that the Axis are either in the middle area or two bunkers, this makes it relitivly easy to get through on either of the two sides and paste them from behind with ya spade or butt. Its not often I've seen the Axis actually defend properly and stop the Allies from getting through.

Though I do like the Idea of boats coming in :)

Well, i dont think its that fun to die without a change to fight back/run away. and when you al die in the boats, the axis will still be Aiming for to boats u spawn in. you could compensated this by putting the boats further away from the axis and making more boats. also u can make it when the allies respawn again the respawn in the water in cover of the tanktraps.

I made this idea once long time ago in a parastyle gameplay. im gona recompile the map again so it works with the newer version of DoD. in this map i used models for the boats, i slightliy modified a boat model by Polyhead. if anyone wants it download the model here (http://home.deds.nl/~mr_me/higginsboat.zip)

Umm Mr Me - the Axis could just bump off the entire Allied team, before they touch the sand!

In response to the first post - the Allies would probably start firing before they landed (hmm... lets all be snipers ;)). I don't think the gameplay would do too well - as said before, SP only (leave it to MOH).

Half-Life can't do this, its too old, making Charlie any bigger would slow the map down even further! It could technically be done, but it would be so laggy + need a monster PC, no one would play.

Originally posted by Trp. Jed
Didn't we start in boats on/in Overlord in 3.1? I rememer never being able to get the bloody door to drop and having to haul arse over the side.

There was also that landing craft which blew up after a while and was 'reet dandy for setting up an MG on.

- Jed

yeah, there were some spawn points in the boats, but not all.

it would be more realistic even if we start in boats and have no waits...just supstitute spawning on a beach with a spawn point farther back into water...than put a boat there...

that will just add one map model....i don't see why it would take the game play out of it...and the machine guns did shoot entire boat crews out in real life...

but i guess ill have to do it...well learn it cua i have no idea how to do it...

well, dunno, but I don't want to respawn and getting shot immediately over and over, well maybe you do, and in your case yeah, it doesn't change gameplay at all.

Originally posted by CptMuppet
Umm Mr Me - the Axis could just bump off the entire Allied team, before they touch the sand!

There is a deley because the axis dont start aiming at the boats so allies have time to get out and take cover or attack. so the allies have touched the sand before the shooting starts.

but then when they finally reach the beach they start shooting the allies, allies spawn back in the boats, mg's starts firing, voila.

Which is how it should be!

I love a bloodbath in the morning.

You also get the problem of Allied snipers proning in boats, a trigger push could sort that out but then once your in the boat theres only one way out, the front and it gets nasty!

I'd like to see this reimplemented too though.

well, I think if you're playing 10v10 on a server as an ally you wouldn't enjoy it that much I think, you probably get shot before you get out of the boat especially when all axis are camping the cliffs and bunkers, unless you got 10 boats this wouldn't work out to fun

Ok how about doing it this way, make a seperate area for the map (like down the bottom of the grid somewhere) where theres water and the higgins boats, now have the boats moving etc etc down there but as they're getting near to the beach have a mortar strike hit the boat which in turn throws everyone out or onto a teleport entity which moves them to the proper beach. Now all you'd have to add to the beach is some destroyed higgins boats :)

there's this map para_raiden I think wich has higgins boats with animations to capsize

What we really need is a new version of dog1. Plain and simple. Update it with some new models here and there and wah lah.

it basically had everything you guys are asking for in it, except moving boats, which IS possible, however, itd be really dumb at this point in time.

I wonder, can anyone hook me up with the guys name and email who made the map? Ill contact him. Ive actually had really good luck with this kinda stuff.

Perhaps I can convince him to give me the rmf or get him to update the map.

voodoo

Dog1 was actually more a resourse hog then the present day charlie (if you ran both of them now side-by-side) and imo it didn't look as good. I think a lot of the Dog1 fanbase exisits because it was really the very first excellent beach map...sound, fury, sprites...it had it all...and we tend to warmly remember the first time we expereince things like that.

Now...when DoD2 rolls around I think you might just see those boats...remember that with DoD2 on the source engine we'll be able to place enough fog to keep the boats from being slaughter-houses up to the point right after demarkation...at least that's what I think we'll be able to do.

One of the cool things about dog1 was how the beach extended really far in both directions (even though you could not travel on it). It made it seem more real. Overall though, I think charlie is a better map.

Well fuzzdad,

I like your idea about the fog. The problem is, us mappers are not been able to give to override the cl_fog controls. So even if you put fog in a future beach map, ppl could just turn it off. So, whats the point?

I hope this will change in future versions. Not sure if it is possible to do, considering there is always an option in video settings to enable/disable weather effects.

Whats the solution?

voodoo

Maybe in DoD2 you will be able to do something like, if the fog is off, then fog sprites will automatically get turned on.

I don't think that 'Allies should spawn in boats' is biggest Charlie problem. In fact it's very minor comparing to other things.

Allies snipers should be blocked, I don't think that there were some snipers in first wave of landing forces. Also, I don't think than first line of German defenders had them.