will all the missing maps out of version 3.1 be released as a map pack for this new version cause I think some of them were really good maps especially Thunder and the map with the big bridge (sorry can't remember the name) also Ramelle was a good map too.

ramelle = merderet
thunder= donner

And that's up to the mappers, my guess is that some of the maps like Hedgerows and Cherbourg are gonne be released on their own as custom maps as Waldo and Arcturus were working on improving them, but I don't know that Schwetz is gonna be released.

i had planned on updating a few others, cherbourg mainly. i realy love that map, but for the life of me, i cant find a decompiler that will run properly with XP. I tried WINBSP but it keeps on giving me a runtime error and it closes. if anyone knows of a decompiler that will work with xp pro, please let me know and ill start updating the maps

-Thurs

Originally posted by Thursday
i had planned on updating a few others, cherbourg mainly. i realy love that map, but for the life of me, i cant find a decompiler that will run properly with XP. I tried WINBSP but it keeps on giving me a runtime error and it closes. if anyone knows of a decompiler that will work with xp pro, please let me know and ill start updating the maps

-Thurs
You need permission to update a map and i'm almost certain you won't get it as Waldo & Arc would probably do it themselves.

Originally posted by Thursday
i had planned on updating a few others, cherbourg mainly. i realy love that map, but for the life of me, i cant find a decompiler that will run properly with XP. I tried WINBSP but it keeps on giving me a runtime error and it closes. if anyone knows of a decompiler that will work with xp pro, please let me know and ill start updating the maps

-Thurs

EVIL!

Decompiling is the devil.
Don't do it. It is actually illegal unless you have the original map creators permission and even then it's iffy. You ask the creators to update it, and if they don't want to then tough. If they do then that's great.

Originally posted by ender
You need permission to update a map and i'm almost certain you won't get it as Waldo & Arc would probably do it themselves.

i know i do

+ the reason WinBSP is crashing is usually because textures are embedded in the map, and you won't find a decompiler that gives you almost anything that you can properly compile anyway. it's a waste of time, and disrespectful to those who spent the time making the map originally.

fine, i give up. ill just do one completely fresh

Originally posted by Gorbachev
Decompiling is the devil.
Don't do it. It is actually illegal unless you have the original map creators permission and even then it's iffy. You ask the creators to update it, and if they don't want to then tough. If they do then that's great.

I hate to break it to you, but in the kindest way possible. :)
You have no idea what you are talking about.

It is not illegal, that' just silly... where did you get that idea? Can you imagine policeman coming knocking down your door to tell your under arrest for decompiling waldo's new map...

Decompiling is good to learn from and if you decompile to rip the map then your just plain stupid because it's not the same as the original and won't even work.

That's just the common stereotype that has stuck with decompiling through out the years.

Ender..

Allow me to light the lamp of reason in your hall of ignorance..


First off... Two Words: Berne Convention.... All works are copyright their respective creators, unless specifcially placed in the public domain.


Secondly.. Digital Millenium Copyright Act... Makes it Civil AND Criminal to Circumvent, Reverse Engineer, Decompile, or otherwise reveal source code of a program, or files for the purpose of reproduction, or circumvention of copy protection.

Please note the AND between Civil and Criminal.

It is if I remember correctly a Class C felony.. Punishable up to 10 Years in Prison, and 5,000, or 10,000 dollars per incident.

Thank you for your co-operation.

Originally posted by Ender
Decompiling is good to learn from and if you decompile to rip the map then your just plain stupid because it's not the same as the original and won't even work

technically he is right. the first map is copywrited, BUT when you decompile, or so ive heard and havnt found out yet, it moves everything around completely, thus making it a different map.

now if you are some kind of idiot and decompile a map, change one thing, compile it again, and put it out as your own, then you deserve to go to jail.

what i was saying is that i was going to update a few maps, i hadnt planned on taking the credit for making a map that i didnt do. Are you yelling at Xerent for redoing Thunder to Donner (im not sure if he did Thurnder in the first place, but if he didnt, would you go ape **** on him, i dont think so.

now, get your panties out of a bind, and start acting maturely. Nobody has any intention of ripping off anyone's work with out giving proper credit and with permission. if you cant find the creater, i imagine just letting the community know that you are going to update something, nobody will mind.

quit acting like a bunch of toddlers


-Thurs

Originally posted by Thursday
technically he is right. the first map is copywrited, BUT when you decompile, or so ive heard and havnt found out yet, it moves everything around completely, thus making it a different map.

now if you are some kind of idiot and decompile a map, change one thing, compile it again, and put it out as your own, then you deserve to go to jail.

what i was saying is that i was going to update a few maps, i hadnt planned on taking the credit for making a map that i didnt do. Are you yelling at Xerent for redoing Thunder to Donner (im not sure if he did Thurnder in the first place, but if he didnt, would you go ape **** on him, i dont think so.

now, get your panties out of a bind, and start acting maturely. Nobody has any intention of ripping off anyone's work with out giving proper credit and with permission. if you cant find the creater, i imagine just letting the community know that you are going to update something, nobody will mind.

quit acting like a bunch of toddlers


-Thurs

And I am telling you.. Updating the maps is illegal, and is very highly frowned upon by the community, and most mappers. Or perhaps you haven't seen some of the comments to NC17, or even Xelvan in the old forums. And for someone who wishes to make an example, I'd recommend you try and get facts before you make yourself look foolish. Xerent did indeed do Thunder originally, and DoD_Donner was originally going to be dod_thunder2... but was changed signiffigant enough that he felt it was better to rename the map.

Waldo went to extensive lengths to contact Helvan before redoing Caen.. Technically, being on the DoD team, and Caen being a Official map, it was within his rights, to edit it.. However he still did all he could to contact the original mapper.

FuzzyDad was considering remaking dod_hill, and from what I understand, I believe he was going to do the same as Waldo did, and attempt to contact Helvan (who did dod_hill as well as Caen), before redoing it.

A wise man once said...

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"....

Perhaps you should consider that before you go calling people who are speaking facts toddlers...

Maps are by their nature creative works, and as such are covered under intellectual property right laws. The DMCA and Berne Conventions cover those works. DCMA just happens to make it criminal...

Oh and to answer your initial question about Xerant... First off.. Being a official mapper for DoD, I'd expect him to be well above doing so... Secondly... in a word, yes I would be just as upset with him, as I would be anyone else who did not make an effort to contact, and get permision from a mapper to redo their map..

One other thing about Intellectual property right laws, is that it gives control of Derivative works to the original creator.. which means, even your redoing and updating a map to 1.0 standards since it is based on the original work is a derivative work, and therefore the sole property of the original creator. A mapper or any other creator of intellectual property, can grant the right to derivative works to any other individual, with or without limits as they see fit. Points to ponder...

you obviously arent reading my posts fully

And perhaps you didn't read the FAQ, which was posted originaly in the original DoD Forums, and then Reposed here by the above mentioned Xerant, so allow me to quote the relevant part:



How do I Decompile a map (.bsp)?

A: There is a tool to use, but it doesn't decompile very well and mis-aligns brushes, etc.

You may only edit a map and re-release with the Authors explicit permission first, the map is COPYRIGHTED by default. I will not post any url's to the WinBSP program here...you will have to find it to yourself.

Remember....RE-Releasing a decompile map without written permission is illegal

The only use for decompiling a map is to LEARN how the map is done, to see what entities were used to trigger a certain event for example.


And I would like to point you to two specifcially relevant parts of that section of the FAQ:

You may only edit a map and re-release with the Authors explicit permission first, the map is COPYRIGHTED by default.

Updating a map to work with a new version is still just editing the map.

Remember....RE-Releasing a decompile map without written permission is illegal

Guess that just reiterates what I said above... But then you didn't want to listen to me.. perhaps an official Mapper (or 3 who have posted in that thread as well as reposting the FAQ) might change your mind...

Allow me to put it in even simpiler terms:

You can not decompile a map, and edit it, and then re-release it, without written permission of the original author.


Thank you for your time...

Oh and FYI, Arcturus was already working on a re-do of Cherbourg for DoD 1.0.. it just was not done in time for the official submission deadline...

Oops I think I opened a can of worms. Wow it was only a simple question now everyone is talking about going to prison lol. Lets just hope someone hopefully the original mappers or people with permission release these maps again as some of them are really good.

And if we all go to prison I want the top bunk.....;)

Don't know what the fuzz is all about. I got DoD beta 3.1 still installed also. Just throw dod_schwetz.bsp and .txt file in your hl/dod/maps. Fire up a LAN, and start filling in the blanks. Takes you awhile but I got dod_schwetz working again without any problem:

... Half-Life\dod\maps
dod_schwetz.bsp
dod_schwetz (text file map description)

... Half-Life\dod\models\mapmodels
aflag_sch.mdl
big_aflag.mdl
big_gflag.mdl
big_wflag.mdl
brick-gib1k.mdl
dod_jeep1.mdl
gflag_sch.mdl
knull.mdl
m4a3_1c.mdl
panzer3.mdl
rubblepile4k.mdl
tigertanklove.mdl
wflag_sch.mdl
woodgibs1k.mdl

... Half-Life\dod\sound\mapsounds
bell1k
boogie
fountain
panzerlied

Originally posted by Cyber-Surfer
Ender..

Allow me to light the lamp of reason in your hall of ignorance..


First off... Two Words: Berne Convention.... All works are copyright their respective creators, unless specifcially placed in the public domain.


Secondly.. Digital Millenium Copyright Act... Makes it Civil AND Criminal to Circumvent, Reverse Engineer, Decompile, or otherwise reveal source code of a program, or files for the purpose of reproduction, or circumvention of copy protection.

Please note the AND between Civil and Criminal.

It is if I remember correctly a Class C felony.. Punishable up to 10 Years in Prison, and 5,000, or 10,000 dollars per incident.

Thank you for your co-operation.
I never heard of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, I'm gonna have to go look that up.

btw I was discussing this in a mature manner. Perhaps we all can.

There has only been one situation where I have decompiled a map, and that was simply to get an idea of scale for doors and such. I used no part of the map in my map. There is nothing illegal about that. When somebody puts something up for download to everyone, they are giving their permission for people to tink around with it. What is illegal is someone rereleasing anothers work and calling it their own, wheather it has minor edits or not.

I believe Waldo said anything in you /dod folder is free to use.

So why not .bsps?


Not that i need to, theres nothing in a map that a tutorial and common sence can do.

If no profit is being made, I highly doubt anything will come off of it besides bad press. You will not be in jail, you will not be in court, but you will get alot of slack from the community.

Get permission from the mapper because it would be the right thing to do. You never know, maybe if you prove your skills the mapper will say yes. Worst case, he says no and you work on something else.

This whole "IT'SILLEGALDONTYOUDAREDOIT" is childish. We all like our maps how they were and don't want cheap knock offs. That is about it.

There was a fuss when THACO asked in the old forums for a DXF to any map in DoD so he could do some work on it for a movie he wanted to do. Of course some certain mappers read that wrong and thought he was going to decompile on his own and then blew up into 5 pages of misunderstood mess. Kinda seeing that here, plus it's off topic (then the nice of the nicest Dim Reaper gave his map Dog1 up in DXF, didn't see that coming).

Maybe do some work on your own, don't show or tell anybody, show the mapper and ask, if he says yes, show it off, work on it more, if he says no, discontinue work and never release...to save face of course.

ON TOPIC:

I want to see the updated old maps if anything. Be nice to see a nice map, maybe some of the cut maps from testing too. Bunker, Ouitz, Hedgerow, etc.