hi guys, this map was created for those in the dod community that are sick of the drudgery of normal maps (rubble everywhere, similar designs, confusing hitboxes on map models etc.) i spent lots of time on it, all comments are welcome, just please no flaming this time. i have decided to quit mapping as well as quit dod becuase i have too much stuff in my life to deal with right now. i wish the best of luck to all of you and hope you all find what youre looking for in life. here are the links
http://netdod.home.comcast.net/dod_sanctuary.zip

and pics (they wont be up for long)

http://esp.8m.net/dod1.jpg
http://esp.8m.net/dod2.jpg
http://esp.8m.net/dod3.jpg
http://esp.8m.net/dod4.jpg
http://esp.8m.net/dod6.jpg
http://esp.8m.net/dod7.jpg
http://esp.8m.net/dod8.jpg

Like I said in the other forums:

* The sky really doesnt go well with the textures and the lighting
* The 1.3 Church textures stick out like a sore thumb.
* The vehicles may have correct hitboxes(after all they arent models anymore), but they still don't look nice.

OH
MY
GOD

This is the ugliest map I've seen in these forums... in a long time!
It looks like it would be more in place in QUAKE, but not even that had such dodgy textures (sorry, but its true. Even if Quake textures were lower res).

Well whats the point of posting well thought out comments if you've given up mapping??! Unless of course the map was good.

Doesn't look that good if you ask me. Too boxy and low resolution textures.

I think it's quite original, the bridge area look very cool to me... but that's just from the pictures, haven't got the time to scout it yet.

way too bright, your scale is way off, things are just too big and a lot of it doesn't look like ww2 at all. the catwalk to the church the biggest one, not a lot of catwalks in western europe in ww2, especially into churches. the glass in the catwalk should be in cs, for dod you need to have it be more brown coloration in the glass as well, usually in a window frame.

- redo the sizes
- redo the textures
- make it less boxy
* have buildings stager
- darken the light_env

add a mirror at www.dodmaps.de
Mirror: DodMaps.de CUSTOM MAPS (http://dodmaps.ngz-network.de/index.php?site=custommaps.php) @ NEW MAPS

I love it. No freakin rubble.

i am teh winnar, this if from another forum, i just HAD to share it
I found a server that was playing sanctuary.. and I take back everything I said about it. It playes really well, it was actually quite fun. We extended it twice and then voted it back when the next map loaded. :)
P.S. lonewolf is my e-hero

I like the gameplay of this map. It's nice and tight. Plenty of action. But I do agree, the scale is off a touch and the textures are pretty dull. Good gameplay though, and that's the most important thing.

If the gameplay is good, then make it look half decent and more people will try it. Not many people are gonna download it due to its looks atm.

if i didnt completely quit dod and send my computer to my parents, i would retexture it with some 1.0 textures. but im a little addicted to dod/internet and cannot get anything done with it in my life so i had to say goodbye to it. i really would change some things, but overall i think the end result of the map was quite spectacular because everyone who has actually played the map enjoyed it, and to me and most of my e-buddies gameplay is 99.9999% of what makes a map good

It's the gameplay that counts. And this map won't kill my FPS the way the maps loaded with things that do not add to the map will.

Who cares how the map looks?

I want to play a game that is fun, not walk through a WW2 art gallery to get out of the spawn.

Well. You know what I think about your map. We already talked a lot about it at the dodmaps.com forums.

Just gameplay isnt doing it. Otherwise we all would be playing Pong and Pac Man. Visual appereance is an important part of any game.

Originally posted by Lonewolf_45100
Who cares how the map looks?

I do.

Exactly. This is HL, you don't need to make things worse by playing an ugly map...

You know, you could post the RMF to a trustworthy mapper, who has the time and patience to tweak your map graphically.

now now children no need to get your panties in an e-bunch, i asked for no flaming at the beginning of this thread and i can honestly see where its going, lets just say that i agree with lonewolf. the way i see it, there are 2 types of dod players: the ones who go around a map trying to win and the the ones who prone in corners staring at textures and then they notice an enemy passing so they shoot him in the back

theres no way i would give just give the source out to a dev team member...well maybe waldo if he agreed to put little pics of himself everywhere. if anyone i would probably give it to darkwing because i liked the way he textured that map hes working on. but like i said i dont even have my comp anymore so its outa the question, so replying with something like "change this" or "you shouldve done this" is gonna be useless. i wish i could but i cant, theres a thing called day of addiction, i have it

P.S. Lonewolf for e-president 2004

Oh ****.

You're gonna regret not having the RMF if people beg you to make changes to make it better.

seeing as how he doesn't even have his computer anymore....i don't see that as a problem.

sweet map though, reminds me of the gameplay i used to know and love. pretty maps are nice, but if it's gonna be ugly, i'm gonna get 100 fps, and there's gonna be action? yea, i'd choose that over just about any current map.

Originally posted by Ginger Lord
You're gonna regret not having the RMF if people beg you to make changes to make it better.

Why the attitude?

What attitude? I know from past personal experience not keeping back ups of certain maps has been a nightmare and a real pain.

It's not fun to rebuild maps, its even less fun telling people you can't do it because you don't have any backups.

[Edit] But seeing as he doesnt have his PC, nothing can be done so this map aint gonna change if theres a problem or future versions break it, remember FD saying many mappers have had to change their maps due to new code.

Originally posted by Ubiquitous
. the way i see it, there are 2 types of dod players: the ones who go around a map trying to win and the the ones who prone in corners staring at textures and then they notice an enemy passing so they shoot him in the back
[/B]

Errrm wrong again mate, there are alot of people out there who enjoy well detailed maps who actually run around fragging people :) I'm one of those people, I can't stand sitting in a corner unless I've got an MG and thats hardly ever.

Gameplay is important yes thats what makes a good map stand out, but the other thing that helps it is great looks! The better a map looks and plays the more chance it has of making itself well known and even possibly having a crack at going retail ;)

i was actually sorta kidding, i dont really see so black and white with things, my whole point is that if stevie wonder were to play dod he would definitely love my map and make songs about it

and gl i see your point but its doubtful that the map would be unplayable in any future versions. its low on entities, poly, and other crucial stuff, but who knows theres always a possibility my words could come back to e-haunt me :)

anyway have fun with the map guys i hear its starting to pick up some momentum

i like the shade of the snow

Running around in a World War II game that doesn't look like a World War II game isn't fun...This is just an excuse to be lazy on architecture, the map could easily have some accuracy added to it. As it stands this is only 1/2 of a good map. Why bother even making it for DoD if you aren't going to make it work with the theme, just have some sticks shooting peas at ambiguous characters instead...

Originally posted by Gorbachev
Running around in a World War II game that doesn't look like a World War II game isn't fun...This is just an excuse to be lazy on architecture, the map could easily have some accuracy added to it. As it stands this is only 1/2 of a good map. Why bother even making it for DoD if you aren't going to make it work with the theme, just have some sticks shooting peas at ambiguous characters instead...

1. How does it not look like WW2?

2. Is the architecture that bad? I didn't notice anything really wrong.

3. thanks for the constructive comments. Next time you release a map, I'll be sure to tear it apart.

Did you even PLAY the map, or were you just mimicing what other people were posting?

Originally posted by Gorbachev
Running around in a World War II game that doesn't look like a World War II game isn't fun...This is just an excuse to be lazy on architecture, the map could easily have some accuracy added to it. As it stands this is only 1/2 of a good map. Why bother even making it for DoD if you aren't going to make it work with the theme, just have some sticks shooting peas at ambiguous characters instead...

its always easier to be a critic of others than to actually take action and produce something. if you truely think that i put little effort into designing this map i feel sorry for you. but, if i am not mistaken it just seems like you are sticking to somebody's side here. to rip on a map based solely on the screenshots or because your buddy doesnt like it is shallow and detrimental to the community. to me it is better to put most of your effort into whatever architecture you think would make the gameplay better, than to put all your effort into architecture that will never be for anything more than something to look at. im sure the majority of the dod community would agree with that.

the lack of dark proning spots and gay windows dissapoints me
if i cant camp, why would i play this map?

A quick look at the server browser shows : No one plays this map. How suprising. I guess the whole dod community is ignorant and only likes bad maps, eh?

Oh no, the half dozen custom map servers aren't playing one of several dozen custom maps! Oh the inhumanity!

lone_wolf you need to calm down..

Originally posted by Rotkopf
A quick look at the server browser shows : No one plays this map. How suprising. I guess the whole dod community is ignorant and only likes bad maps, eh?
nope its all about exposure, and sense your site is one of the few custom map sites still remaining and you decide to post pictures of maps that only you like the textures of, mine didnt get much exposure. seems ever since the best custom map site houstondod went down its been more difficult to get exposure. since youre such a mapping "expert" rotkopf why dont you learn mapping and give us all the best dod map ever, im sure everyone would play it.

ubiq, your trying to defend your map too much. You keep saying the general dod player likes it but if its not being played, the general dod player doesnt like it

hey so .. i made a comment to show i was watching this but apperently it wasnt clear enough so ill just say it ;)

Stop the flaming.

I think it's sad that someone releases a map and gets flamed for how it looks as opposed to how it plays.

According to that logic, it doesn't matter how structurally sound a building is, or how well a car handles, but how they look. I don't think anyone with a brain would buy a house that is structurally unsound but looks nice, or a car that looks nice but can't make quick turns. Why is it that maps seem to be the exception to this rule?

This is going to be my very last post regarding this subject :

1. A map consists not only of gameplay, but also of brushwork, textures and lot´s of careful work to create a proper atmosphere.

2. Regarding ubiq´s map : No one at all besides his e-friends from 1911 have supported him because everyone who´s just a little bit into mapping or has some experience with custom maps agrees that a.) the map has serious graphical flaws (old / bad textures, brush based map models) and b.) has no other good attributes (interesting gameplay, great atmosphere, special features) at all, which could make it worth playing.

3. We tried to help Ubiq at the dodmaps.com forums, he did not accept any kind of critiscm. After being turned down by us, he reports his map here and gets similar feedback. Yet he doesnt think about his mistakes, which have been pointed out by several people who are involved into mapping / the mapping scene for a long time now. Now who is hard-headed here? Apparently Ubiq, who also brought his friends from 1911 (who don´t play many customs anyway and I doubt sanctuary is going to make it into CAL rotation), who seems to think they need to defend their "bro" against the evil "dodmod" mappers and website owners who dared to critize his map.

4. Face it, the map is not played at all because of the flaws we pointed out over and over again. KK? Doesn´t play it. Dodmaps.com / Dodmaps.de ? No. Any other custom map server? Check the ASE. No one is playing it. And why? Because apparently no one or only a few people like it.

5. Flame me, I don´t care. In the end, it will ruin your reputation on the forums here even more.

6. @Ubiq : Stop trying to push your map with the help of your 1911 buddies. It´s not going to make it more successful in any way. Map quality counts, not "credibility" in a certain "clan community".

That are my final words about this. If you and your friends will keep acting like that, this is going to be locked soon anyway (in my opinion).

Originally posted by Ubiquitous
nope its all about exposure, and sense your site is one of the few custom map sites still remaining and you decide to post pictures of maps that only you like the textures of, mine didnt get much exposure. seems ever since the best custom map site houstondod went down its been more difficult to get exposure. since youre such a mapping "expert" rotkopf why dont you learn mapping and give us all the best dod map ever, im sure everyone would play it.

Your map was a good first effort, but not good enough to get the type of exposure that a "good" map deserves. Trust me on this, over a hundred maps have passed through the KK servers and yours just doesn't have the "right stuff". I've been running a custom map server for over two years now, so I kinda know what works and what peeps like. So take what you've learned about mapping so far, look at the maps that have the "right stuff" on the KK and other servers, and try again.

:cool:

Originally posted by Rotkopf
2. Regarding ubiq´s map : No one at all besides his e-friends from 1911 have supported him

Apparently Ubiq, who also brought his friends from 1911
6. @Ubiq : Stop trying to push your map with the help of your 1911 buddies. It´s not going to make it more successful in any way. Map quality counts, not "credibility" in a certain "clan community".

That are my final words about this. If you and your friends will keep acting like that, this is going to be locked soon anyway (in my opinion).

Why are you turning this into a 1911 versus the world thing?

If you really must know, I don't KNOW Ubiquitous. I don't even know what clan he plays for. I dled the map, ran through it on LAN, and it looked pretty good. It had nice, clear streets, clear paths, and didn't have the clogged feeling of a lot of custom maps.

I'm not defending him because he is in a clan, I'm not defending him because we are buddies (We don't know eachother except by name at this point)

I'm not trying to push his map.

I just think that instead of slamming the map for not being realistic, or pretty, maybe check out the way it plays? It looks like people put style over substance a bit too much - which is yet another reason why there are so many custom maps, and so few are widely played. Don't try and make this a clanner/non-clanner issue. It most certainly is not.

I for one would love to see this map played in a server, and see how it plays on a 6 on 6 and a 10 on 10. If it plays well, players will be too busy enjoying the game to oogle the bloody textures.

Unfortunately, with the sheer negativity that this map has met, and hardly any of it constructive, I find it hard to believe that you guys are trying to foster independent mapping.

i prefer a map that mixes both worlds.

and there's nothing wrong with some rubble/obstruction, so long as the rubble is navigatable and useful.

I have even downloaded the map to hope it was the screens that didn't do the map justice....

That was last week and I havn't found a server running it to test it. Running around it in LAN it still looks weird with the texture choice, feels like b1.3b not 1.1c.

IF I were you, I'd try and get your computer back from your parents, give the RMF to someone who can work on the criticisms of the map.

TBH, mappers are the most critical people of maps; when I showed my WIP of my map to people, they were really impressed - strangely with parts that I thought were crap (although they could A- not care or B- just were being polite :p). When I posted my first pics, the comments I got seemed slightly discouraging - nevertheless, I listened, re-did some stuff and posted again. The second round of feedback was pretty encouraging too! If you wanted to, and chose to stick at it, listen to what we have to say, you could make a good map (yourself).

Originally posted by swordzkof
Your map was a good first effort, but not good enough to get the type of exposure that a "good" map deserves. Trust me on this, over a hundred maps have passed through the KK servers and yours just doesn't have the "right stuff". I've been running a custom map server for over two years now, so I kinda know what works and what peeps like. So take what you've learned about mapping so far, look at the maps that have the "right stuff" on the KK and other servers, and try again.

:cool:
"You have been banned permanantly from this server."
anyway, swordz could you please put my map on there for a week or two and then maybe run a poll for it, i'm very interested to see what they think. no hard feelings if you dont though.

ok both parties said what they want..

now, no more flames

or i will have to close this, sad as it is...

Ubiq you should really stop trying to defend and push your map. We know you took time and effort creating and building it, but it seems like this is your first attempt at mapping. Everyone had to start out somewhere and everyones first maps looked like crap. You should take the advice of experienced and successful mappers since they DO know what they are talking about.

To me and probally most of the normal DoD community a good map contains 2 basic qualitys.

1.)Gameplay-If a map doesnt play well, is unbalanced, spawn camping and whatnot, no one is going to want to play it.

2.)Graphics/atmosphere-The map has to look good and support an atmosphere that reflects the idea your trying to get across. Having Quake 1 visuals is going to turn most people off since it is unpleasent to play in areas liek that when other DoD maps have pushed the limits of the HL engine. Also no one wants to have counter-strike textures or aliens running around(except you freaks :P )on a DoD map

These two attributes are a MUST to became a decent map. If the map is lacking one, it has no lasting appeal and soon falls into the pit of unplayed and unwanted levels. Your map may have THE BEST GAMEPLAY EVER, but if it has the ****TIEST GRAPHICS EVER it just doesnt balance out. You should just accept the fact that your 10 minutes of glory is up. If you truley quit mapping and DoD, then dont worry about it. Yet if your planning on makin another map somewhere down the line, learn from your mistakes and make a better effort. This wasnt a flame just some advice.

first when i saw some of the pics i thought hey cool - someone has made a map in the go0d old 1.3b style which i really enjoyed playing! :) i installed the map and loaded a langame > but when i spawned and ran around more and more my hopes shrank to a minimum..there was no detail and when i came to the bridge my comp stucked like ****!..normally it can handle the above 1000 wpolies but i really don't know what it was on your map that made my comp stucking around :/
but i went on exploring the map - finding some ugly dark spots that could better get lighten out :)
the architecture of the map seems pure lazyness :( very cubistic and i don't think i will really enjoy the big open detailless areas without any atmoshpere.i really hope i can find a server which runs the map cause im very interested how this map playes. if i find the dark spots useful and get the point why you made the car/tank out of brushes i will change my thoughts about this map - until that day i would say that here is much work to do.

lol its not my first map, its the first map i decided to release on these forums thats all, i know mapping inside and out, i'd consider myself really badass at designing things, my choice in textures must be lacking though. i have already explained why i made the car and tanks brushes and the short answer is: better fps and better hitboxes than the models, trust me i tried it before making it.

the people who have criticized me here either don't map at all or have been mapping for less time than i have, which is where my main frustration stems from, it's really annoying when people who think they know more about something than you try and criticize your decisions on things that you spent plenty of time contemplating and testing. i have nothing against any of you honestly, everyone can think and say what they want. where i draw the line is when people like rotkopf come into this thread and try to ruin my chances that people will download the map. he knows i already knew how he felt yet he had to be hateful and taint this thread with negativity. i just get the feeling it is some sort of racial thing. i also dislike when people don't even bother downloading it yet they are experts and know your map enough to tear it down.
i have quit dod anyway, my only point in posting my map here was for people to download and play a fun, non-bs map, i didnt really think it would turn in to some fiasco like this, all i can say is many of you would defend yourself if you were in my shoes because youd really know how horrible it can be for all of your work to be thrown down the drain by people who did absolutely no work whatsoever. im glad though that some of you tried it with people/bots and ended up liking it a lot, and i do appreciate those of you who gave constructive criticism instead of commands, its what this community needs without a doubt.

Originally posted by Ubiquitous
lol its not my first map, its the first map i decided to release on these forums thats all, i know mapping inside and out, i'd consider myself really badass at designing things, my choice in textures must be lacking though. i have already explained why i made the car and tanks brushes and the short answer is: better fps and better hitboxes than the models, trust me i tried it before making it.

the people who have criticized me here either don't map at all or have been mapping for less time than i have, which is where my main frustration stems from, it's really annoying when people who think they know more about something than you try and criticize your decisions on things that you spent plenty of time contemplating and testing. i have nothing against any of you honestly, everyone can think and say what they want. where i draw the line is when people like rotkopf come into this thread and try to ruin my chances that people will download the map. he knows i already knew how he felt yet he had to be hateful and taint this thread with negativity. i just get the feeling it is some sort of racial thing. i also dislike when people don't even bother downloading it yet they are experts and know your map enough to tear it down.
i have quit dod anyway, my only point in posting my map here was for people to download and play a fun, non-bs map, i didnt really think it would turn in to some fiasco like this, all i can say is many of you would defend yourself if you were in my shoes because youd really know how horrible it can be for all of your work to be thrown down the drain by people who did absolutely no work whatsoever. im glad though that some of you tried it with people/bots and ended up liking it a lot, and i do appreciate those of you who gave constructive criticism instead of commands, its what this community needs without a doubt.

You should remake all the 1.x maps with blocky tanks and sandbags from betas. Then we can have good maps to play in leagues. :)

Hit Registration and FPS > Pretty Textures.

i think three warnings was enough.

at Ubiquitous:

everyone has a opinion... it doesnt matter that they dont map. infact you get the best crit. from people that dont map, but play the game alot and look at things as a gamer not as a LD.

this discussion ends here, before it get worse.