While watching some of the movies of HL2 in action a while back, I found it great how much the environment of the game changes and is manipulated by the player. I think this sort of interaction should be very crucial in any attempt to make a DoD2. While dod has this sort of thing to an extent (blowing up walls and such) I think with a hl2 version doing all kinds of other stuff should be possible, like forming on the spot barricades by knocking down tables or bookshelves. I really like the way when in Maxpayne2 you throw a nade into a room and everything in that room just goes flying and crashing around the room. This general mayhem caused by you and your opponent's interaction with the environment would be wonderful to see in a multiplayer game.

agreed

agreed :D

duly noted.

Good enough!:p

DoD2 should be interesting to see. :)

There are problems with it though, all the stuff flying around is going to be a bandwidth killer, you can forget playing on a modem...

Also implementing all the details into the map is going to be a nightmare. :D

Agreed.. Cant wait to map for Half-life2.. my maps are detailed enough as it is for hl1..

here's and example of my detail :)

(the 2nd Place one)http://cariad.co.za/twhl/compowin.php?id=8

Originally posted by Kehldon
There are problems with it though, all the stuff flying around is going to be a bandwidth killer, you can forget playing on a modem...


You honestly expect that they would even consider the ol modems?

Yes I do, they are 75% of the total market, and if you don't, you don't think like a publishing company.

I don't have the exact mathematical calculations infront of me, but that much stuff eats a ****load of bandwidth, just like alterable geographic does.

75% of the total market? you are probably talking internet. but not games. most gamers use broadband.

Most gamers use cable and high end dsl lines, anyone that still uses dialup has not seen the current prices of broadband, in most cases it is only around $10 more a month to get broadband

As far as the interactivity of maps in hl2 you will have to take quite afew things into consideration before implimenting such interactivity

The bandwidth is the main concerne here, any object that in any way effects a player in an online game has to be sent to everyone playing, so if you want a physicaly simulated object that blocks bullets and or players that object's physics calculations will have to be sent to everyone on the server

If the object is just for looks (swinging rope, gibs, ect) then it can be client side

Another thing to keep in mind is how such interactivity will effect the design of the map, if you are able to blow up every object in the map it could ruin the gameplay of the map if not done right

Not to say that it is impossible or should not be done but there are a few design choices that need to be made before just throwing in such interactivity

As far as setting up interactive objects in hl2 it is much easier and takes much less time to do so thanks to the new tools and interface components in the hl2 version of hammer

Originally posted by kleinluka
75% of the total market? you are probably talking internet. but not games. most gamers use broadband.

Yeah internet, thats where the customers are, hardcore gamers aren't as big buying target group as you think. And also broadband IMHO is atleast 2Mbit up/down (Swedish govermental definatition, Im unaware of anyone else), you are fooling youself if you think that most gamers have that.

And by most, how much % of the gamers do you meen by most? 60%, 70% or 80%? I meen, what do you think they say at Vavle when you cut away 20% of their market? What Im trying to say is, they can't afford to think like us, Im certain that they want and maybe some of them do, but those that are in charge doesn't and can't afford to either....

A little trick question, just to make you understand what controlls this market, do you know what game that made most sold copies 1998? (Hint: She has long blond hair, big boobs and has a boyfriend named Ken)

EDIT: Damned Dyslexia

Originally posted by Kehldon
There are problems with it though, all the stuff flying around is going to be a bandwidth killer, you can forget playing on a modem...

Also implementing all the details into the map is going to be a nightmare. :D

so true, I don't think mapping will be this fun anymore :(

Originally posted by Quakah
so true, I don't think mapping will be this fun anymore :(

I think it would be much more fun than it is now. add all the details you want. not being resticted so much. makeing things all realistic..putting things in strategic places.

Originally posted by TheNomad
not being resticted so much.
That will be the day we are all waiting for, probebly will for a few more years....

I think most of internet gamers still use modems. Such connection is cheapest and most widely available. But I don't think HL2 physics will be problem for connections, cause all of this will be calculated client side. There is some drawback still - I'm not sure how much interaction between internet players and (for example) flying stuff blown by some explosion. Lack of multiplayer mode in Mex Payne 2 is kind of sign how troublesome it can be.

Anyway mapping for HL2 will be much different but main weight will be lying in diffent point. Now you spend much time trying to fit your imagined map to narrow HL1 engine capabilities. In HL2 you will have to learn much more about typical modelling - creating stuff the way it's done in Milkshape, 3D Studio, or other programs. Softimage will be official tool for it so you can try XSI version now. Working with it is very diifferent from Hammer (which is quite easy tool for designing).
Or you will have to find some good modeller :).

Originally posted by Craftos
Softimage will be official tool for it so you can try XSI version now. Working with it is very diifferent from Hammer (which is quite easy tool for designing).
Or you will have to find some good modeller :).

The main mapping tool will still be Hammer for HL2.

The tool you are talking about is for making models ... why would HL2 rely on models more then anything else?

Originally posted by Quakah
so true, I don't think mapping will be this fun anymore :(

why, cause the difference between bad maps and good maps will be more visually obvious than on HL1 ? I don't think that's a bad thing. Just motivates to work harder.

yeah I know, but for me it's not going to be more fun than this engine, just because I work with "sectors" for example, first I'll build spawn, then that, that, that and so on, now with the hl1 engine you don't need to make it so detailed because of the limitations of the engine, now with hl2 if you want a good custom map you'll need to compare to the official dod2 maps wich will propably have a high detail rate, so your map should be +/- as much as detail as there is wich causes you to work far much longer on such a map and for me if something takes really long(3-4 months) I get bored with it and just drop it.

Wish I lived in the US to take advantage of this $10 a month broadband, over here in the UK its:

[Broad Generalisations Ahead]

£25-£30 (~$40) a month for 512kb ADSL
£40 (~$64)for 1Mb ADSL
£55-£60 (~$92) for 2Mb ADSL

That and its only available in 1/3 - 1/2 the country.

:rolleyes:

One poll (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=319918#post319918) to rule them all.

Originally posted by haircut
The main mapping tool will still be Hammer for HL2.

The tool you are talking about is for making models ... why would HL2 rely on models more then anything else? Basically you will assemble all in Hammer2 and create very basic plain walls. All details (and in HL2 there is a lot of them) will be made in Softimage. In HL1 You can make a house as a box with some textures on each wall + roof and it's ok. If you make nice roof ends everyone is happy. In HL2 you will have to use very detailed hire texture + make details to keep HL2 graphics level.
Second usage is like in HL1 - making props. There is not enough map modelers for HL1, so you will have to learn modelling by yourself.

No online play for me because I have satellite internet which cannot do FPS games. Its just not available in my area or I'd get it. With me in my predicament is two friends and a brother, though I have 2 brothers who have cable internet.

So thats two to four.

And for the most part, most online gamers who bother cruising and posting have broadband. Those that don't won't be browsing because its horribly slow.

Ginger lord you shouldn't complaint!

Look at this prices here in Brazil: 256kbits adsl with limit of 1GB/month costs US$50!!!. 512 with 3GB limit is US$80. Just for comparisson an engineer earns US$ 600,00/month.
This is why I still use a 56K modem. You can't imagine how much fun I have seeing everybody dodging my bullets like on Matrix ! And the best part is when you finish your new map with 7 MB to upload! It's so funny watching the slow progress bar! Steam is also very interesting to download !

Man I LOVE a 56k modem :p

Originally posted by Quakah
yeah I know, but for me it's not going to be more fun than this engine, just because I work with "sectors" for example, first I'll build spawn, then that, that, that and so on, now with the hl1 engine you don't need to make it so detailed because of the limitations of the engine, now with hl2 if you want a good custom map you'll need to compare to the official dod2 maps wich will propably have a high detail rate, so your map should be +/- as much as detail as there is wich causes you to work far much longer on such a map and for me if something takes really long(3-4 months) I get bored with it and just drop it.

Maybe that will make the custom maps finally so popular, people could really do w/e they want and the sky iz de limit.

HL2 mapping is almost exactly the same as hl1 mapping, you dont rely more on models then brush work like you do in games such as ut2003

You will not wont to rely moreo n models then brushes, you will want a good balance of both

For all those concerned about the realistic physics on map objects producing more server lag, I seem to recall a HL2 interview where the developers said that only objects that would affect all players would be handled by the server (say, a large box that could block an entire hallway), and smaller objects that wont limit the player movements (like a small bottle) will be handled client side.
Just try not to add too many huge, hallway-blocking crates, and I'm sure we will be fine :)

Originally posted by NC17
HL2 mapping is almost exactly the same as hl1 mapping, you dont rely more on models then brush work like you do in games such as ut2003

You will not wont to rely moreo n models then brushes, you will want a good balance of both

That's what I thought:D

Originally posted by Instacrome
For all those concerned about the realistic physics on map objects producing more server lag, I seem to recall a HL2 interview where the developers said that only objects that would affect all players would be handled by the server (say, a large box that could block an entire hallway), and smaller objects that wont limit the player movements (like a small bottle) will be handled client side.
Just try not to add too many huge, hallway-blocking crates, and I'm sure we will be fine :)

Yea, you can set which objects are handled clientide and wich are serverside

Objects that block bullets and can be interacted with by players have to be serverside but things like swinging wires and ragdolls can be totally clientside

Heres to nice big open areas!

I hope that a decent, sprawling countryside map with loads of hedges will be made; with a few scattered buildings about. Of course, such a big open map would be most enjoyable with class limits (with particular regards to snipers and MGs).

The danger of a big, open map is that it can be rather samey... So go and visit a semi-wooded/field area for ideas. A European mapper would therefore be able to get a better idea of how things should look.

Anyhow I'm rambling on!

I also look forward to: higher-res textures, etc; more atmospheric maps.

I do not look forward to (from a mapping perspective) a raised bar for graphical performance- more attention to props will be required.

Put a huge field, without buildings, and without blinded cars and you have ww1. I hope your map have trenches! Or it will become some sort of awp_arena.