http://www.lawrencegamer.com/12thss.jpg


CREDITS:

Equipment Skins: Captain Higgins
Pea Dot Camo: Vandori
Everything else: Flammenwerfer (aka Sure-Shot)

This is a variation of a release I did earlier. I added a better helmet camo and smock. I also added the 1929 italian camo that was used by the 12th SS after Germany disarmed the italian army.

Camo Smock: Oak Leaf A Spring
Pants 1: 1944 Pea Dot
Pants 2: 1929 Italian Spring
Parka: 1929 ItalianSpring
Hat: Oak Leaf A Spring
Helmet: Plain Tree 4 Spring

DOWNLOAD (http://www.lawrencegamer.com/12thss.zip)

It won't let me download...but they look nice, mate, keep up the good work!

Nice...

looks good, wish i could download it...those HJs will go nice with my Canadian 3rd infantry skins...of course you know that the rivalry between those two units was one of the most bitter of the whole war.

Great job..By the way is there anyway to put a helmet on the unteroffizier instead of a cap? Or is it impossible because all models are patterned after one model only?

"fix the link!" Mike [1stID] says

erm.. and fix it for me too. id like to have it as well ;)

****ING AWESOME!

Our clan is the 12th SS and we are happy that someone has taken it up to make some :D

You are the best ;)

there try now LOL russ i really like your sig

flame, thank you so much!

This is what I have been lusting for, for a LONG time. I am history nut when it comes to the 12th SS and Kurt Meyer commanded that division for some time. Plus the clan I am part of is the 12th SS and we are going to use these skins for sure.

Thank you again, they look amazing.

Seig Heil fur 12th SS Hitler Jugend!!!

NP, once someone comes up with a new compiler and we figure out how to deal with soem of these sub models they should get even better.

Sounds good.

So being as it is, the sub models are harder to detail or what? Or is it just more complicated?

What I'd like is for them to be all Oak leaf cammo circa 1944. With the SS runes on the colars, and a arm band, which had the hitler jugend written on it. Ofcourse in DoD you wouldn't be able to see that. But just the arm band, and to make it look like something is written on it would be fine.

Is that possible?

Thank you again!

What I am planning to do is make a realistic SS pack. With accurate insignias and realistic equipment (breadbag, canteen, etc). I made a set like this with the 3.1 models. A couple of problems with the current models are they use the same texture for both collars. So I can't add SS on the right collar tab and rank on the left. The same problem goes with the arm sleeves. They both use the same texture so if I try to add the armband and national eagle to the left arm it is going to show up on the right arm to which isnt very accurate. Another problem is with the submodels. For example all the models use the same helmet. Which means no variety in helmet cover, no helmet cover, spray painted, chickenwire, etc. Same goes for the pants and the tops. Although I am sure someone will come up with a model or something that can fix this. We need a compiler first though.

Looks good, although a textures are a little too washed out for my likes (i like the sharper look).

With respect to helmets, i wish someone actually remodelled the default helmet to make it look like it actually has a cloth helmet cover on top of it istead of just skinning the default steel (give it "volume" so to speak). Basically to make the helmet look like that:

http://www.eliteforces.freewire.co.uk/Uniweb/waffen_ss/steel_helm/sthm_2.jpg

instead of just putting skin on top of this:

http://www.acmeimportsintl.com/helmets3001010.jpg

there was a model for 3.1 that simulated the cloth effect quite nicely ( http://pokemart.dodhq.net/index.php?cat=axis&page=light at the very buttom of the page). However the helmet looked too narrow and model itself was lacking. But it was a step in a right direction.

Yeah I wasn't satisfied with the helmet wither. Here I redid it. If you downloaded the pack before, download this helmet update. Looks more 3d.

http://www.lawrencegamer.com/helmet.jpg



DOWNLOAD UPDATE! (http://www.lawrencegamer.com/12thss.zip)

I still like my default, but they look sweet :D

I messed around with the textures even more and gave them more of a 3d wrinkly look. So if you downloaded the first ones, then the update download this one.

DOWNLOAD (http://www.lawrencegamer.com/12thss.zip)

Edit: just fixed the hat too

VERY NICE MAN. i DLed these and the Axis flag and objective pack. now the game has a really good WaffenSS feel :)

thx a million man ;)

Keep those good lookin models coming :)

as a matter of fact the next version you do of these, can you have them all 1944 spring oak leaf pattern, but with the grenadiers and stuff. make them have the standard dark green/grey pants. so like have some classes with camo smock but their reg pants ;) thanx a million man

wow great job cheers m8 !!

Here is a version that replaces the 44 pea dot pattern with regular field grey textured by captain higgins, but still has the 1929 spring italian camo for grenadier pants:

http://www.lawrencegamer.com/12thss-grey.zip

nive work guy .keep it authentic and keep it coming what about a heer grenadier set with splinter smock and helm cover or ss grenadiers with pea/oak/plane tree smock and helm .....can this be done ,vv good and thanks for your time !

Can some 1 just make better models of the original wermacht models? since the current default models r wermacht models n i wanna keep it that way ;) Maybe a request 2 devin kryss?

The picture is too small to see :(

I made a little team select icon for this set, it has the 12th ss logo in the background.

here's the file, instructions in the zip.

haha, this is turning into a 12th SS mod, lol! Good job guys, I downloaded the updated 12th SS camo, thanx flame. And I downlaoded the team selection icon.

I hope someone comes out with a compiler to help you out. And to get around the mirror problem, wher eit duplicates things from one side to another. If that can worked out somehow, that would be awesome.

Again, thanx Flammenwerfer.

p.s anything alse that you can make 12th SS, that would be awesome too.

those look good, i will download and test once i get back home from school.

heh i took some screenshots of em in Flash and made a sig pic

http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=30364

nice!

okay.. I have to say this as a critic.. they just looked reskined.. the 12 ss was made up of young guys 16-22.. can we make there faces look younger?!

where is the insigna?

I want to see some bolts and swaticas.. a arm band too?

lets get creative guys.. and how about one of those caps.. not like a baseball one.. one without a brim on it eaither..

You wanna make a compiler and edit the models so that both sides of the collar dont use the same texture, and both arms don't use the same texture, Insignias could be added.

EDIT: Not trying to ***** at you hardmod just realise that can't do everything yet until atleast someone makes a compiler.

Harmod,
If you have read what flame said like twice already you would undertand why he didn't make it as detailed as he wants it too.

And you're wrong about them being 16. Minimum age was 18 for the 12th SS.

Originally posted by Flammenwerfer
You wanna make a compiler and edit the models so that both sides of the collar dont use the same texture, and both arms don't use the same texture, Insignias could be added.

i know what ya mean man. i was going to make some realistic 3rd SS skins and all. but the damn models are submodeled, wich sucks, very bad.

although you have done quite a nice job here! insignia could be added, but it would be mirrored on the other arm...

btw, glad u like my sig :D

Damn, Why did they do this sub model ****? Why didn't they keep it the same as in 3.1. A file for each model and all.

Do you think someone will come out with a compiler?

These are beauties!

I'm using them for my default Axis now, good job!

Two thumbs up!

Originally posted by Panzer Meyer
Harmod,
If you have read what flame said like twice already you would undertand why he didn't make it as detailed as he wants it too.

And you're wrong about them being 16. Minimum age was 18 for the 12th SS.

your probably right, but most photos i've seen of men in the hitlerjugend division, they look more like 16 year old boys. i mean they look more like boys than men.

Don't underestimate the 12th SS by their age. They were an excellent fighting unit. A great combination of physical fitness, military training, and mental dedication. They certainly bloodied the hell out of the canadians at caen. Here are some interesting quotes:

"While it seems clear the lack of battle experience
hampered our formations in Normandy, one must remark
that, although some of the German divisions were
subject to the same disability, it appears to have had
a less serious effect on them. The 12th S.S. Panzer
Division, which was responsible for many of our
troubles, was formed only in 1943 and had never fought
before 7 June 1944. (As we have seen, however, it did
contain a high proportion of experienced officers and
N.C.Os. It also had the advantage, after the first
days of the campaign, of having a commander and a
senior staff officer who had special knowledge of the
theatre of operations, having exercised there with the
1st S.S. Panzer Division in 1942.) There were other
German divisions committed against us in Normandy which
had not fought before and which nevertheless gave a
good account of themselves. This may have been due in
part to the fact that the German formations were on the
defensive while ours were attacking, a more difficult
role. Nevertheless, one suspects the Germans contrived
to get more out of their training than we did. Perhaps
their attitude towards such matters was less casual
than ours."

-C.P. Stacey, The Victory Campaign, p.277.

"A HitlerJugend machine-gunner with a Spandau- a weapon which was more efficient and reliable than British and US equipment. The SS troops were generally younger, fitter, better trained and more experienced than the allied troops facing them."

-Captain John Hermon Crook of the Hallamshires, York and Lancaster Regiment (He is referring to this pic: http://www.ma-radio.gold.ac.uk/JHCROOK/battlew.jpg I dont know what he means by spandau.)

"At first we thought my god they're taking kids, but then we saw them fight. I saw them myself near Vier and St.Lo. I had my sights on an American tank and was going to fire. When to my horror I saw a German soldier waving his panzerfaust to stop us from firing. He blew himself up with the tank. He gave his life. He fired from under the tank."

-Wolfgang Filor, Waffen SS NCO

all i am saying is i would like the faces to look younger... because all the pics i've seen they look like boys.... not men....

and yes.. these troops were crazy... they were apart of the generation that was brainwashed by nazi idealogies(sp?) and propganda.. they would do the jobs that that the older troops wouldn't do becasue they knew death was certin.. in one word.. fanatical!

and were knowen to kill POW's... then again.. so did americans.. but allies found friendlies that had there hands bound and a boyoneted and slashed and shot and dismembered..

oh.. they also came into a twon to set up a camp and take over the village.. and the mayor said no.. so they came back to the villlage with a gestopo or someone high up and hung the mayor of the village and the 12 ss had a band play a marching song as they hung the mayor.

Originally posted by hardmod
and were knowen to kill POW's... then again.. so did americans.. but allies found friendlies that had there hands bound and a boyoneted and slashed and shot and dismembered..

That is such a flase statement. The only account that the 12th SS was accused of and Meyer was tried for was the supposed killing of 8 Canadian POWs. I still believe Meyer did not have a say in it at all and would never give an order like that. And when Meyer did find out about the order and the people who carried it out, he had them punnished.

The 12th SS was elite of the eilite. They were fanatical, but there are other reasons. They had completly different basic training and combat training than other Waffen SS or Heer divisions. Instead of doing the usual drilling, and meaningless marches and things like that. They focused 100% of the time on combat training, accuracy, practice shooting and so on. So instead of spending 3 months of basic training on drilling, yelling and 10 miles marches, they spent all that time practicing combat.

You're right about one thing, they did look younger than others. They avarage age of the division was lower than any other division. And Kurt Meyer was the youngest General in the entire German Army, Heer, or Waffen SS. He was 34.

Anyway, back on topic.
In 3.1, They didn't have submodels and the textures did not mirror either right? Damn this submodel **** is anoying.

Originally posted by Panzer Meyer
That is such a flase statement. The only account that the 12th SS was accused of and Meyer was tried for was the supposed killing of 8 Canadian POWs. I still believe Meyer did not have a say in it at all and would never give an order like that. And when Meyer did find out about the order and the people who carried it out, he had them punnished.

The 12th SS was elite of the eilite. They were fanatical, but there are other reasons. They had completly different basic training and combat training than other Waffen SS or Heer divisions. Instead of doing the usual drilling, and meaningless marches and things like that. They focused 100% of the time on combat training, accuracy, practice shooting and so on. So instead of spending 3 months of basic training on drilling, yelling and 10 miles marches, they spent all that time practicing combat.

You're right about one thing, they did look younger than others. They avarage age of the division was lower than any other division. And Kurt Meyer was the youngest General in the entire German Army, Heer, or Waffen SS. He was 34.





Actually he was responsible for 27 deaths through executions of members of the North Nova Scotia Highlanders, the Fusiliers de Sherbrooke, the Royal Winnipeg Rifles and the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada. I don't know why would anyone have an orgasm over a murderous SSman like Meyer. I'm pretty sure 27 Canadians represent a very small portion of people killed by him. Being in Russia for 3 years and also him being a hardcore Nazi follower most likely provoked massive killings (although considering the scale of a bloodbath that Eastern Front was looking for witnesses that were alive for a little trial Allies set up was a little inappropriate and next to impossible).


Panzer Meyer, if you are ever in the army you will understand that you need those "usless drill periods and marches" as much as anything else. If you just give a recruit a rifle on his first day and teach him how to shoot and use combat tactics, you get an undisciplined kid who is trigger happy and is probably prone to "wasting" POWs. Drill was invented for a reason and those marches are there to test physical indurance and practice what infantrymen do most of - walk (infnatryman spends less that .001 of his time in combat and the rest is eqither taking care of equipment or...you guessed it, walking)

im sure Meyer meant they did less marching and et cetera then the average military unit ane more combat training. the WaffenSS in general were very disciplined and were very nice at parades but they had about twice as muhc training as the reg soldier. so they spent more time in combat training then the others. but also the SS didnt really need that much parade training do to the fact that most of them came from the Hitler Youth so they all knew how to march ;)

cool i will d/l when i get bord of my the defult

The training for Heer and waffen SS units was almoast identical and alot of Heer units especially during early years were MUCH better trained in actual warfare than W-SS (particularly the mountain corps come to mind). All parade training was taken out from W-SS formations by 1942 by the way (so it wasn't Meyer's little achievement). By '43 W-SS units were mostly undertrained, underfit but still much better equiped then Heer (just the fact that most of heavy equipment went to W-SS first with Heer getting second hand machinery). In fact by 1944 most half of W-SS personnel weren't even Germans...

I'm a little prejudiced towards any kind of SS (be it Totenkopf or Waffen SS). Could be the fact that i'm Russian and all of SS branches had their "fun" in the East killing over 20 million civilians. Could be that i serve in one of the regiments whos members Meyer executed (QOR of C)... I just have a despise for all kinds of SS units.

thats a fair bias. i respect that. as long as ur not a dirty Bolshevik ur ok in my book, being russian is cool ;)

but on a counter note, lets not forget what the russians did in Germany during their last push. to be honest Killing is bad yes, but Rape is just Barbaric and rude, on the Eastern Front neither side was "good" nor "evil" but defintly brutal, if your accusing the SS of atrocities and supporting the Russian Army during ww2 thats being kind of hypocritical ;)

but i respect your opinion in the fact that the SS was brutal and cruel

You can't really compare the rapes that occured in Berlin during the last days of war to mass and systemical killings committed by certain formations within Whermacht. Yes rape is one of the worst offences in my book and i will seriously hurt someone if i will see him doing it BUT with respect to rapes that occured in Berlin 1) they were not tolerated by officers and offenders were usually shot on sight 2) the rapes were mostly committed by rear echelon formations and penal battlaions, which were equally despised by fighting formations for their tendency to loot and rape while not doing any fighting (i think it is a trait that was present within any army at any given time) 3) it only lasted for 2-3 days before Stalin stopped it wit ha special order as opposed to Hitler and his SS lackeys burning people in stoves for good 5 years 4) I'm pretty sure Germans committed alot more rapes in the course of 3 years in Russia 5) the rapes carried mostly a retributionary value to them (again retribution seen through the eyes of rear echelon men, fighting men had a slightly different perspective) 6) other allies (Americans in particular) enaged in rapes all the way till 1950s (they weren't rapes per se but rather acts of coercion towards prostitution with exchanges like much needed food for sex, which is IMHO just as bad if not worse than regular rape). Don't get me wrong: rape is very bad. But that argument cannot be used to excuse what Germans did in Soviet Union. It's kind of hard for Westerners with all their rationality and "historical sources" what really happened in the Eastern front, but what happened was a literal meatgrinder with no rules (i used to find human skulls, barbed wire and old concrete pillboxes all the time while at my grandmother's cottage near Finnish border, about 50km from St.Petersburg).


p.s.: God, i feel so out of place posting this here.... RETURN US THE HISTORY FORUM DAMN IT!

Training in the SS was more advanced than the Heer atleast 1941+. Considering almost all the 12th SS soldiers were former Hitler Youth and Hitler youth was really just pre-military training. So most 12th SS soldiers had ALOT of training. The SS were also considered an elite branch of the wehrmacht compared to the heer. Here is an interesting quote:

"Why did I volunteer for the Waffen-SS and not the Wehrmacht? Simple - I wanted to serve in an elite formation"
SS-Unterscharführer Eduard Janke (Nordland division)
(Source: "Loyalty is my honour" by Gordon Williamson)

Here is a very nice site about SS training and a little bit of info on the unique 12th SS training: http://www.wssob.com/training.html
"
The Waffen-SS were open to new ideas & innovations in terms of training - for example - Panzer crews of the 12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend were required as part of their training to spend a week working on the assembly line at the MAN tank factory in Nürnberg."

Anyway lets try to keep this on the topic of modelling. Yes please bring back the RN and History forums.

Edit: LOL and here is another interesting quote. Guess Rommel didn't like the hitler youth that much.

"Those sixteen-year old *******s commanded their Regiments in big shining Mercedes cars as though they were Corps Commanders."
Erwin Rommel talking about the Hitler Youth.
(Source: "Panzer Battles" by F.W. Von Mellenthin)

Having an orgams over Meyer...? I just don't agree with the fact that he was responsible. He was not present when it took place, and when he found out about the executions. The soldeirs that commited the crimes were punished. I believe one was hanged and another transfered to a penal battalion, working on clearing mines and such.

What I mean was that the 12th SS focused heavily on combat training, weapons training and so on. More heavily than any other division in the Heer or SS. And as a result they performed much better than their counter-parts.

Anyway, yes I hope they do bring back the history forum and RN in some form or another. I miss it...

Originally posted by Purple Haze
You can't really compare the rapes that occured in Berlin during the last days of war to mass and systemical killings committed by certain formations within Whermacht. Yes rape is one of the worst offences in my book and i will seriously hurt someone if i will see him doing it BUT with respect to rapes that occured in Berlin 1) they were not tolerated by officers and offenders were usually shot on sight 2) the rapes were mostly committed by rear echelon formations and penal battlaions, which were equally despised by fighting formations for their tendency to loot and rape while not doing any fighting (i think it is a trait that was present within any army at any given time) 3) it only lasted for 2-3 days before Stalin stopped it wit ha special order as opposed to Hitler and his SS lackeys burning people in stoves for good 5 years 4) I'm pretty sure Germans committed alot more rapes in the course of 3 years in Russia 5) the rapes carried mostly a retributionary value to them (again retribution seen through the eyes of rear echelon men, fighting men had a slightly different perspective) 6) other allies (Americans in particular) enaged in rapes all the way till 1950s (they weren't rapes per se but rather acts of coercion towards prostitution with exchanges like much needed food for sex, which is IMHO just as bad if not worse than regular rape). Don't get me wrong: rape is very bad. But that argument cannot be used to excuse what Germans did in Soviet Union. It's kind of hard for Westerners with all their rationality and "historical sources" what really happened in the Eastern front, but what happened was a literal meatgrinder with no rules (i used to find human skulls, barbed wire and old concrete pillboxes all the time while at my grandmother's cottage near Finnish border, about 50km from St.Petersburg).


p.s.: God, i feel so out of place posting this here.... RETURN US THE HISTORY FORUM DAMN IT!

Yeah, the Soviets ONLY raped German women in Berlin. :rolleyes:

OFF TOPIC TALKING IS FUN DUDES

Lets not forget the russians attrocities commited when they invaded poland and finland finland. When the allies were talking about how they were going to divide up Germany after the war Churchill didn't want to give the soviets anything because he heard of war crimes commited by russians when they invaded poland and finland.

also the difference between most of the German atrocoties and the Russian ones were thet the German one were at least motivated by idealogy and they were brainwashed into thinking that. the Russian atrocoties were more motivated by lust and crime ;)