Just wondering if anyone has tried this yet. If any of you remember in 3.1, near the end of it's days before 1.0, a bunch of talented folks here in MSA managed to get muzzleflashes into the game finally, cause we didn't wanna wait for the Dev team to get it in. Then in the next release, they get it in. Huh, bugger that. Either way, I still liked the visual effect that was used in those older ones, as instead of how it is right now where only one attachment is used on the muzzle of the gun's barrels, there were infact three attachments going outwards from the barrel. Actually it was from the player model but yah know. Either way, with three attachments you could make a big flash at the tip of the barrel, medium in the middle, small at the front and have them close together. What it did was make them mesh together into a "flame" of muzzleflash that we all see in movies and all them new fangled games out now, like Halo, COD, Unreal 2k3 etc.

*Cough* yeah getting to the point, I wonder if anyone has taken a crack at modifying the new p_models that contain the attachments now and extend more attachments like the old custom 3.1 models did. I ask cause I know of late alot of HL games have been cracking down on model consistency, especially CS and it's pain in the arse p_model consistency, and NS and it not letting me do what I mentioned to it's player models. I'm prob gonna try this anyways tonight, just wondering if anyone has given this a crack and tell meh it's useless before I get to involved. Either way, I hope this is the right MSA forum, these new sub-forums confuse meh... Less clutter though. Carry on.

We cant really add muzzle flashes like we had in 3.1 because of the fact you can now drop and use other weapons.

In the 3.1 models, you had a model file for each class and each class had only one main weapon. The muzzle flash was created by adding 2 or three attachement points to the player model at the appropriate position where the end of the weapon barrel would be when they were holding it.

Sadly as you can now go from a short greasegun to a sniper rifle you cant move the attachment points not accurately set the right kind of flash for the right weapon.

Ideally, the events which triggered the muzzle flash should be made to work with the p_models, i.e the attachment points and events go in them, rather than the player models, which would mean each weapon has its own flash.

I dont know if the even code still exists in 1.0 or if it will work putting the attachements on the gun as the muzzle evens were triggered by the shoot animations and guns dont have them.

- Jed

Aren't hitboxes interchangeable with animations?

If that's the case, it could be done. (but what do I know.)

Sadly...
Jed got a good point there :-(

I'm not sure what you mean Jed, because the muzzle flash is handled by the p_models. Take a look yourself, they have attachments for a muzzle-flash and for shell ejection and a firing animation sequence.

It seems to me that it would be easy enough to add a few more animations at the end to create semi-3d muzzle-flashes.

Well I confess my assumtion was made on a hypothesis of a thought. Thats my standard disclaimer and I'm sticking to it! :)

Actually I *assumed* as no-one added them since 1.0 came out despite everyone knowing what was involved that was the reason no-one did it.

For those that want to know how we did muzzle flashes before:

As far as 3.1 goes, to add a muzzle flash I had to define 3 attachment points to the player model (or 2, depending on the weapons size) and align them where I wanted the muzzle flash sprites to appear.

It was then a case of opening the QC for the player model and adding event triggers with the shoot animation for the players main weapon. These told it what flash sprite to show, on which attatchment and how large, hence creating the effect. By only putting the even triggers in the animations for the main weapon it stopped them appearing when using the pistols, knife and grenades.

My comment about the 1.0 models and the option of using any weapon was based on the idea that because the muzzle flash attachments are generally set up for one weapon using a shorter or longer one would cause the flash to appear to start too far ahead or inside the weapon depending on the length of it.

I suppose you could define a long, medium and short attachment points in the player model and trigger the muzzle flash in that weapons animation selecting the approprate attachment point for the length of the weapon. The only problem would be that you wouldnt have the nice long muzzle flashes we had before as you'd only be using one. I think there was a limit of 3 attachments if I recall.

As I said, it would be nice if the 3 attachment points could be put inside the p_models (the model of the weapon as the player holds it) and the muzzle flash sprites triggered from within the animations in the player model. I dont know if it would work that way - i.e. can the event triggers in the player model trigger the display of a sprite in another.

I guess I could try it but I'm sat on a 486DX2-66 right now as my dev machine is on its side with the case off having the OS re-installed.

One point though - I've had my FX details right up and right down in DoD 1.0 but have *never* seen a 3rd person muzzle flash for any weapon in DoD. Just the dynamic lighting and the one you see on you v_model in first person view.

- Jed

*pokes p_models* Aaaactually you can attach the attachments to the p_models, they do have their own firing animations. I know cause I did this when I made meh distant sounds, I attached all my sounds to play on the p_model's shoot animation. It only played my distant sounds when someone shot. I did indeed try making the attachments and they compiled and all all dandy, just I forgot how to trigger the right event on the right attachment like you said. I know what even to trigger and such, just forgot how to specify which attachment it goes to. A little help there you all... Trigger and Jed and such? Sorta rusty from the 3.1 days of the muzzleflashes, I should have saved my old ones for a quick looksie.

I'm pretty sure as long as you can get the attachment in and the events working it'll work, as I managed to get the attachment in at least, what I'm concerned about is if I'll get a p_model file consistency error, as that's the latest rage in mods nowdays...

I did try the attachments on a Tommy, like I said above, but when I tried them out in game, my game eventually crashed. I dunno if it was the model or not, cause my game has been crashing randomly on different servers. I'm thinking it's cause I need CD on those servers, but another question. (Off topic) How the hell do you know which servers need CD or not nowdays?! Now they don't put it in their server names anymore, and there's no lovely console greetings to let you know! I WOULD run CD on all the time but yah know...with VAC up again and VAC not liking CD and all.....

I just got it working, there's no problems using the p_model for the attachments. I've attached the qc file for the model I tested it on.

Jed, you're still thinking in 3.1 terms where muzzleflashes were on player models, but in 1.0 they're on the P_models, not the players. Vash's question relates to the muzzleflash events and attachments that are part of the P_models.

Now, my question is: do you think you could add ejecting brass to a P_model? The same event call could be used as the one in the appropriate V_model and plugged in to the P_nodel's firing anim [which is only one frame, without movement--it exists only to call the muzzleflash event].

According to the qc files, it appears there is already a brass ejection command with proper attachment and everything. Although I'll admit my knowlege of qc scripting is limited.

Originally posted by =DD=Wolf Kahler
Jed, you're still thinking in 3.1 terms where muzzleflashes were on player models

Well I'm just old and stubborn and stuck in my ways. Heck, I still cant get my ahead around this decimalisation rubbish. And what the hecks a Euro?


Now, my question is: do you think you could add ejecting brass to a P_model? The same event call could be used as the one in the appropriate V_model and plugged in to the P_nodel's firing anim [which is only one frame, without movement--it exists only to call the muzzleflash event].

I would assume so. I mean as Trigger pointed out the code is there and even HL in it base contains ejected brass. I do remember it in 3.1 too althought it seemed to cease working after you fired off one magazine with the weapon.

Still if what we have said is correct and we can add the old 3 stage flame/starburst muzzle flashes to the p_models then hey-nonny-no. :) But I can honestly say all the time I've played DoD with particle effects on and I've never see one on a weapon.

But heres a thought. As the weapon has a fire anim that means we can add some more attachments and keyframes. Anyone fancy putting in verticle smoke sprites to for when you cease firing? ;)

- Jed

Smoke puffs! There's a thought too.

But in 3.1, the attachment for the ejecting brass was on the player model, right? That might have been the problem.

I've seen the muzzleflashes in 1.0, myself, and I know there's code for the ejecting brass attachments, since V_models have them. Grab an SMG, fire off a clip while moving backwards, you'll see your shells bouncing and spinning on the ground quite naturally, but nobody else can see your shells and you can't see anyone else's.

How about this: one attachment for the muzzleflash, one for ejecting brass and one for smoke? The limit's three, as has been mentioned, in case anyone wasn't aware yet [we do have new people lurking in the woods]. That would absolutely SLAUGHTER anyone's FPS with fifteen people with MG's, SMG's and support rifles all firing at once, but it'd look damned cool at 5FPS. :D

I thought 1.0 had ejection brass in 3rd person? I KNOW I've seen it before, sadly it was right when 1.0 came out on WON. Since then I had to stop playing cause my comp didn't like DoD. But since I've started playing again I don't know if I've seen them again...

At Trigger, thanks for seeing if it works, I forgot the commands of where to make the events play. I shall use your .qc to learn again and try applying to all my p_models.

And at Wolf, are you sure three is the max for attachments per model? If I remember correctly, my 3.1 player models had up to 4 or 5 attachments. Can't remember exactly, but I know at least 4. 1 for distant sounds attached to the firing anim of whatever gun that class used (since back then only one class could use one gun, cept for modded servers of course...) and 3 for the muzzleflash attachments. I usually added for the main weapon and the pistol for each player model. I'm gonna try 3 attachements anyways for meh p_models....

And on the thought of smoking guns, sadly the only available anims for the pees are "idle" and "shoot." So trying to attach vertical smoke (which shouldn't be hard, read up at the Verc site on how to make sprites stay where they are on certain axis) would have to be on the idle anim. So everytime someone isn't firing...the gun would be having a nice smoke...lol. Be kinda funny.

"Omg Bob your gun is b0rked!! It's like spewing teh smoke and stuffz!!"

"Damn Nazis! Haxing my gun!!!" :cool: :D

It may not be a limit of three, you'd have to try it and see.

We need a bloody to-do list in this forum for people to pick tasks from and check off ;)

- Jed

Well, I don't know how many attachments will work, but the p_model I tested with had four attachments and they all were displayed in HLMV. One appears to be for ejecting brass, but I don't know if it works in-game. It looks like the v_models use 6002 for shells, while p_models use 6001, at least, I think that's the one. The rest look to be muzzle flashes and sound events.

Good idea with the todo list Jed, hop-to-it. :D

Triggers right, there's an event in there for ejecting brass and it's suppose to work and all, I STILL say I saw it... either that or I need better classes.

And I compiled ALL of my pees with custom muzzles, all look good in HLMV....but the kicker. I can't get on to test them. Everytime I load up to a server, my comp crashes to the desktop, BSODs me, or just freezes. I don't think it's really Steam's fault. (at least not much...) Just my comp is sorta in intensive care right now..... had to strip the side casing off and shove a little fan next to it to blow cool air in. My CPU fan died last week and it's been going downhill ever since... Caugh a virus a few days ago, nothing big, got it out, but MAN the amount of crashes and lockups. Running like this can't be good for meh comp, which is why now I try to minimize comp time and run it during the night where it's cooler. Although it's pretty damn humid right now here in Hawaii... And I'm still praying I can get funds together to start on my own comp from the ground up before this one dies....

Errhm so yeah... sorry about that side story... just letting you know I got the stuff compiled (default models, my comp can't handle so sue meh) and it did make it in game where I didn't get kicked or anything...just my comp never lasted long enough for me to see anyone firing. Gah. You know how hard it is to be a DoD photographer when you can't go spec mode? I found that a majority of servers have disabled or banned specing so you don't "Use the spec bug" and if I do, I usually crash. Gah. So I gotta run around, hopping to see someone shoot and avoid getting killed. Stooopid STG in front of me never wanted to fire.... :D So yeah.... it's sorta done but just not tested...

Btw Trigger, I used 3 extra attachements for each model to make a nice long flame, except for the MG 34/42 where there are 4 muzzle attachments, an extra one for the star-shaped muzzleflash, and 2 for pistols cause I don't think they should be gouts of flame... So average count was 4 per model, 5 for the Axis MG, and 3 for pistols. Just letting you know.

(Offtopic) Did I hear right on the main page news?! 1.1 sometime this week?!?!?! Oh god don't let my comp die now... Just a few more weeks baby, just a few more weeks... My mobo's gonna fry and snap I know it...

Well I figured out what was wrong with the crashing, it musta been the extra attachments. I had backups of my pees and swapped them out, the game runs now. So there must be an attachment limit like mentioned by Wolf. I THINK thought that it can go to four, I know that I had four per player model in 3.1. I think what ****ed the game was my Axis MGs, since I made them to have 5 attachments right now. I'll try bumping them to 4 and see if that works, either that or bump it again to three, leaving me with only 2 muzzle flashes to work with... Dunno if anyone is still really intrested in this, I just want the extra eye candy...

Hey I got them working at 2 attachments for muzzles. Took screenies and all. Good stuff again, the muzzleflashes look like the ones in 3.1, albeit without that last attachment they can't be as long. I'm still working on getting good measurements for each attachment spacing, but for now, some pics for any who like it.

That top one was while the guy was moving, cool matrixy effect neh?

Next up a nice side shot of an STG

Nother matrixy effect on the STG. Note again, I'm working on getting good spacing between the muzzleflashes to make them longer, but you can tell on the STG that there is a difference, the flash at the barrel is bigger, blending into the smaller one spaced away.

*cough* yeah this was on Redphive which has FF on all the time... I kinda avoid Redphive now cause a lot of people TK haphazardly on there now as you can see... I was specing but everyone in spawn was dropping left and right...sadly the best shots I could take were all of spawn TK'ers.... they lasted the longest lol.

Last one for now. Notice how the MG-34 now has both the star-flash and the regular flash together. Just thought I'd point that out. I made the MG-42's bigger of course... just cause it seems to fit...

So yeah...just seeing if this sparks intrests in you all.....and I'm sorry for so much posting..... I'm done, I promise forums I'm done! *pets forums* You go and get maintenced now...

Well done old chap! :)

- Jed

Great stuff!

one question though..will these work with particlefx off like back in 3.1? I loved my 3rd person muzzle flashes for 3.1, but i never see them anymore with particlefx 0:(

Where's the ejecting brass? You're right. There does appear to be an attachment for it in the P_models, but it doesn't seem to want to work much.

That MG34 looks niiiiice. :)

The only problem for me with this method is the sprite rotates to face you from where ever you view it from. I once used a little program, that fixed the sprite along one axes, so it did not rotate. But the only problem with this is the program set the sprite on the wrong axes. If someone could write a little program that you could fix the sprites axes so it was the right one, then this would be great.

Anyone up for it, Jed....lol.

EDIT:

I've just found this tut, that might sort the problem, ill have to look into it.

http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?doc=1063191790-06027400

Well the rotating to face the user is a good thing really, its what gives the flash a sense of volume.
the trick is the number and scale of the smaller sprites which makes it look more natural.

- Jed

Yes your right when it comes to the cloud type muzzle flashes, but IMO the star type looks pants if your looking at it from a side angle, because the star sprite faces you and does not keep inline with the end of the weapon it's coming from, where as the cloud type you don't really notice it, and like you say they work better when rotating towards you.

I just think if the star shape one could work on a fixed axes it would look better, and we would like it more......:)...even more so if you throw in a couple of cloud type muzzles aswell.........:)....and smoke.......:D

Great work!! :D

Yeah your right Marzy, unfourtnately the star burst flashes suffer the most just like in 3.1 but nothing we can really do now. I remember when (I think it was you, hence you talking about it...) the sprites were fixed to be aligned, but they were on the wrong axis like you said. I read in the Verc tutorial though alot of stuff on sprite alinging on axis, maybe we could give those a shot? Opps just read your link, yup thats exactly the tut I read too. Gave me hope for the starburst...just my hexeditor is b0rked right now...

At Wolf, yeah I think the brass is tempermental like the muzzleflashes in 1st peson. I don't think I'm the only one, I think I remember others complaining in the beginning but from time to time my 1st person flashes disappear even when firing, and I have particlefx 1 on. (Soon to be set back to 2 with the optimized rain and snow in 1.1 I hope....)

At Warlord, good question and I think with particlefx off flashes should still work. I'm not sure, you can do a quick try ingame and see if you can see the regular default flashes with fx off. I can see why you would want the fx off though with the horribly unoptimized particle system...but I think particlefx 0 looks like ass...

Oh yeah, at Wolf's original thought of ejecting brass, purdy flashes and gunsmoke, I had an idea. Since the brass is theoratically covered, I seem to be on the right track for purdy muzzles, and there is already gunsmoke from the muzzles of the guns with particlefx on at 1 or 2, the last one we need is smoke from the gun receivers. Well yeah I'm already at the three attachment limit. Buuut...we could use the niffty attachment for the brass. Cause it's positioned at *gasp* the receiver of the gun. If we use the extra sprite named "muzzleflash3" (called as event "_2" in the .qc file for those who care) and make it a smokey puff one (hell I don't know, steal one from CS for now as a placeholder, hate to say it but CS IS good for models and sprites...) and attach it to the ejecting brass attachment, guess what. We can have the event play whenever the gun fires and whaddya have. Purdy long muzzleflashes with shiny flying brass and smoke flying out of the barrel of you gun and wafting out of the receiver. As long as we use a smoke sprite that puffs vertically it shouldn't be to bad, of course if your looking down on someone shooting it may look weird. But other than that I see no problems with the thought, neh? Besides, if we can fix the starburst flash to be on one axis then we can fix the vertical puffs too. Just a thought to you all... sorry for the long posts.... kinda notorious for long posts everywhere...

Oh and at all the Senior Senior members (like Jed, Marzy etc who have been around for awhile from 3.1 back prob,) thanks for replying, makes meh feel all happy inside. :cool:

I will work on getting these babies looking better, and if anyone wants to try them on their models, then we can all try to help. Or release a tut or something.

I suppose we could actually add the ejected brass to the p_model and animated it in but it probably wouldn't look as sexy.

- Jed

I wish we could animate p_ models, so you could see the bolt of the M1 Garand fly back and forth when fired, the bolt of a K98 being worked and the slide of a 1911 moving around :D

Yeah i remember spending a lot of time playing around with muzzle flashes in 3.1, i remember i used 3 types, by adding muzzleflash3.spr to the sprite folder aswell, you might like to try it out.

Originally posted by engineer
I wish we could animate p_ models, so you could see the bolt of the M1 Garand fly back and forth when fired, the bolt of a K98 being worked and the slide of a 1911 moving around :D

Well if the p_model does indead have a shoot and idle anim like people are saying they do then technically yes, you could do that by adding it to the shoor anim.

- Jed

Doesn't the skeleton on the p_model have to be the same as the player skeleton though? If not, it would be quite cool to see animated p_models when weapons fire. Of course, that would also require more detailed p_models, but if carefully made they wouldn't need to be nearly as high-detail as the v_models.

The HWguy's Minigun in Team Fortress Classic has a animated p_ model IIRC

Originally posted by Trigger
Doesn't the skeleton on the p_model have to be the same as the player skeleton though?

Nope, p_models have their own skeletons which are just long ass arm structures.

- Jed

OK nice! Then who's willing to start experiment with animated p-models then? :D I'm not. ;)

IT'S TRUE! THE P_ MODELS HAVE FIRE SEQUENCES!

Originally posted by engineer
IT'S TRUE! THE P_ MODELS HAVE FIRE SEQUENCES! And....? Are you going for it?

It would potentially be possible to add moving slides and bolts with minimal modification to the actual models. Key would be retaining its low-poly shape so as to not upset the model integrity system which seems to be in place in the majority of servers.

Also, nice editing on the muzzle flashes, though I really would have gone the other way and made them smaller. I'm not a big fan of the action-movie flamethrower style flashes. :P

Originally posted by Vandori
It would potentially be possible to add moving slides and bolts with minimal modification to the actual models. Key would be retaining its low-poly shape so as to not upset the model integrity system which seems to be in place in the majority of servers.

Also, nice editing on the muzzle flashes, though I really would have gone the other way and made them smaller. I'm not a big fan of the action-movie flamethrower style flashes. :P Would it also be possible to make playermodels "cooperate" with the p_models? I other words, animate the playermodels with new animations that ie. do the bolt with bolt-action rifles, put out and in mags on certain guns, and do the slide back and forward.
Maybe it's too complicated... :(

But it would be a nice visual effect. :D

That would be entirely possible, the animations already do that to a certain extent.

Originally posted by Trigger
That would be entirely possible, the animations already do that to a certain extent. Ok..? Explain where I can see that.. :eek:

I've actually spent a good amount of time thinking on this very subject (animated p_models) and I think I know how it could be done.

You would need to add and remove some things.
Firstly all the P_ models would need to have their magazines and/or bolts removed from them.

Secondly you would need to add those same clipped out magazines and bolts to the player models.

Thirdly it would take some animation to get them working.
For each weapon's idle sequence the player-magazine for the matching weapon would need to be matched to the p_ model so they look like one single model.

for the firing animations they would have to match up so the models looked like on piece. Also, for the cut out bolts, you would need to animate them shifting and being pulled back then closed.

For reloads, the magazines would need to move with the hand of the player model, but it would look as though the player removed the magazine, switched it and placed a new one into the gun.

This would take some real work but it would probably function fine.

For added effect it might also be possible to have it spawn an empty magazine model to drop into the map when the model's hand reaches a certain point, to simulate throwing away the empty magazine.

However, this would take extra coding to work. It would be cool though.

If you did it that way you would have to hide one of every magazine in each player model, with seperate bones and animations for each. It would be more trouble than it's worth to do that. It would be much simpler to leave the mags with the p_models and animate it so it looks like they put them back in their pouch and pull out a new one. It may not look as good, but it would still look better than what we have now, and for much less work than the other method.

Originally posted by Vandori
For added effect it might also be possible to have it spawn an empty magazine model to drop into the map when the model's hand reaches a certain point, to simulate throwing away the empty magazine.

However, this would take extra coding to work. It would be cool though. Yeah, I know what you mean. But isn't that the dod-team's job to attach empty magazines.. Just like empty shells?

Well yeah, like I said it would be a lot of work. however you would effectively have the models taking the magazine, removing it and placing a new one into the gun.

However, I didn't consider the fact that you could have the p_ models themselves with the detached magazines. If that is possible then you'd have to animate seperate reload sequences for each weapon to match up with the player models.

This might be less complicated, though I wouldn't know how to call up the reload animations on the p_ models at the same time as the player reloads.

Of course, I'm a skinner first and modeler last so my total knowledge of what the p_ models can do is somewhat limited.


Oh, and yeah, the dev team would probably have to code in the extra magazine drops.

I already tried it in 3.1 and it only really worked on guns where there is a seperate model for reloading - i.e. those where you swap hands to do it.

I hid a magazine inside the models chest and on the reload anim moved it from the gun to a pouch and back again.

Of course in 3.1 each player only had one gun so it was no problem but now you'd have to cope with loads of magazines.

- Jed

Alright, forget reloading, but shoot anims should be no problem, provided of course somebody actually attempts it.

I don't know but I've tried everything and now I've screwed up the p_model muzzleflashes. So on certain weapons I can't get it to work..

Here are some qc files that i've edited. Plz respond what should be changed!

All files doesn't work except the BAR qc of some strange reason. The bar is the only one that i can get there real rd muzzleflash... :(

HEEEELP!

Well what exactly where you trying to do Jacobson? By taking a quick glance at the .qc, it seems everything is there (notice you use meh distant sounds w00t w00t) and I think the numbers are correct, save for some odd reason some of the sequences are set to play at frame one. Maybe you wanted to create a lag effect with the sounds? I'll have to go check and see if the numbers are indeed correct, but it'd help if I knew what you were trying to accomplish.

Originally posted by Vash TS .45L.C.
Well what exactly where you trying to do Jacobson? By taking a quick glance at the .qc, it seems everything is there (notice you use meh distant sounds w00t w00t) and I think the numbers are correct, save for some odd reason some of the sequences are set to play at frame one. Maybe you wanted to create a lag effect with the sounds? I'll have to go check and see if the numbers are indeed correct, but it'd help if I knew what you were trying to accomplish. I were trying to do large muzzleflashes with real 3d effect. But now I don't see any flashes at ALL on the weapons in that zip except for the BAR of some strange reason...

And what do you mean by "Maybe you wanted to create a lag effect with the sounds?"??
Create a lag effect? Have I done something wrong?:confused:

Well I didn't get to take a proper look at them today, do you use custom models or stock. I think I can help give yah a hand later when I finish up helping someone else with some models.

And for the lag comment, I just noticed that some of the muzzleflashes and distant sounds were set to play on frame 1 of the sequence animation, not 0 when the gun actually fires, so in essence it would create a "lag" effect with the distant sounds. (Someone shoots, a split second later you hear the distant sound)

Originally posted by Vash TS .45L.C.
Well I didn't get to take a proper look at them today, do you use custom models or stock. I think I can help give yah a hand later when I finish up helping someone else with some models.

And for the lag comment, I just noticed that some of the muzzleflashes and distant sounds were set to play on frame 1 of the sequence animation, not 0 when the gun actually fires, so in essence it would create a "lag" effect with the distant sounds. (Someone shoots, a split second later you hear the distant sound) Yeah, that's correct. But I thought it ment the seconds after. So if I put an "1" I thought that ment one second after and I wanted the distance sounds to play a bit after the real shot's fired.

So maybe that's the problem with the muzzleflashes too?
And can you explain what a "frame" means?

If a frame mean FPS = frames per second then can I put in decimals in te qc too? Like "0.3"?