I'm saving up to buy better modeling software, I just wanna know which do you think I should purchase, Maya or 3d Studio Max?

got 5,000 handy? :\

Yes.

you mean to tell me that u want to waste all that money on something so expensive when u could jsut download some free software off the internet:confused: i hope u have prior experience in being a 3D artist before u blow that much dough!!

XSI ... yer gonna need it when it comes time to develope for HL2.

What everyone here fails to realize is that MS3D is a pathetic power in the realm modelling tools, it's not even a real tool, it's mostly just an editing tool. If you ever intend to improve your work, I urge you to drop MS3D. I used MS3D for nearly three years, and I could do things most people couldn't even do in MAX. However, when I started learning MAX I realized that not only was MS3D little or no help, but that once I learned MAX things are easier, less time consuming, and more fun to create.

If you'd like to try what MAX is like, try GMAX (http://www.discreet.com/products/gmax/), it's free for download. This is basically a stripped down MAX demo, no rendering, and you can't export. From my experience, MAYA is more useful in the enviroment creation, especially with the paintbrush tools. A MAYA demo can be downloaded on their site somewhere here (http://www.alias.com/eng/community/downloads/index.jhtml). Honestly, I like MAX more, I use R5.1 for referance, but I use its applications for more mechanical pieces. MAYA seemed to be better at enviroment, foliage, and the likes.

Rock, you won't need XSI really.
- It's going to be free, atleast for HL2
- It has imports and exports to .MAX and .3DS
- MS3D can export to .3DS which XSI will be able to import
- Exports and imports of the XSI format will be made

It's hard to suggest to spend that much money on software if you are not a professial making a living off of it. Besides being top of the line, the price is very high for other reasons too. If you are truly serious about sending the money I would buy a book on how to use the program you choose first. Get to know it on paper, then try it out first hand. Look on some 3d forums for better insight into which is popular in the industry now. Also if you are in college or know someone who is, you can get a couple hundred dollar discount off of it. At least at my school they offered such deals.

Hallock ... whats to say that the sdk for HL2 wont plugin to XSI better than max ever did. I'm talking tools right in the software that is being used to initially create the game. Sure you can model in just about anything and export/import it, but Valve has stated they have moved from 3D Studio to Softimage/XSI.

I'm not saying Maya is no good. I'm just saying, why not cut through the BS and buy a package that is directly used by the engine's developer?

XSI is a little harder to learn but theres a substantial market of books out there to teach you the basics.

Originally posted by Sgt_Rock
XSI ... yer gonna need it when it comes time to develope for HL2.

I'm on a mod team for hl2. should i get it?

I like 3ds Max but I havent tried XSI yet so... :o

Originally posted by Sgt_Rock
Hallock ... whats to say that the sdk for HL2 wont plugin to XSI better than max ever did. I'm talking tools right in the software that is being used to initially create the game. Sure you can model in just about anything and export/import it, but Valve has stated they have moved from 3D Studio to Softimage/XSI.

I'm not saying Maya is no good. I'm just saying, why not cut through the BS and buy a package that is directly used by the engine's developer?

XSI is a little harder to learn but theres a substantial market of books out there to teach you the basics.

XSI is going to support .3DS and .MAX out of the box. XSI is an awkward tool to use, just because that's what the game is made in doesn't mean that's what you need to make it in. The agreement they signed was tha XSI would be the package to support HL2 modelling, they didn't say that's what they made the game off of, infact, I doubt they'd make it at all in XSI considering they are trained professionals in 3DSMAX, Maya, or Lightwave.

I can confirm that the learning curve for XSI is rather steep and the process is also frustrating at times. Once you get the hang of it, it can be an excellent tool.

XSI was taken up by Valve in mid production because their current software wasnt cutting it.

Proof.

http://www.softimage.com/home/press/PressReleases/030515_Valve_HL2_XSI.htm

You can see by the list of things they needed. Max was far too outmoded. Why use a tool that forces you to do a single job the hard way when you can use a tool thats so flexible it can fit to any job.

Maya is the best for organic modelling, but its a **** when you need mechanical/engineering modelling.
I use MAX and i like it, since im an engineer and need some vertices at right spots... And there is lots of plugins: AfterBurner, RealFlow, FinalRender, Vray, Brazil, blablablabla... that makes it really worth.

Originally posted by Sgt_Rock
I can confirm that the learning curve for XSI is rather steep and the process is also frustrating at times. Once you get the hang of it, it can be an excellent tool.

XSI was taken up by Valve in mid production because their current software wasnt cutting it.

Proof.

http://www.softimage.com/home/press/PressReleases/030515_Valve_HL2_XSI.htm

You can see by the list of things they needed. Max was far too outmoded. Why use a tool that forces you to do a single job the hard way when you can use a tool thats so flexible it can fit to any job.

I fail to see how 3DSMAX simply couldn't cut it, it can create organic models, it's the most superior program for materials and mechanical things, player models can be created and much more. Everything is 3DSMAX is the easy way. I can create what takes MS3D or XSI an hour to do in twenty minutes. XSI is not industry standard by any means at all, if someone was going to get serious about modelling you start with 3DSMAX. That is basically industry standard for gaming, and is a key tool in CG production for films. For the most part, they were looking for animation tools from XSI.

I've been using MS3D for the past 2 years and am now branching off into Max because it offers more stuff that is easier and the end product imo is a more detailed and finished looking product. I'll have to take a look into all the other options that are out there since the gaming industrty is taking off to new and better heights.

Anderson

Originally posted by ygor
Maya is the best for organic modelling, but its a **** when you need mechanical/engineering modelling.
I use MAX and i like it, since im an engineer and need some vertices at right spots... And there is lots of plugins: AfterBurner, RealFlow, FinalRender, Vray, Brazil, blablablabla... that makes it really worth.

Do you do an STL check on all your models? A buddy of mine worked for an engineering company that switched from AutoCAD to ProEngineer to check for interfereances and spent loads of cash doing so only for the software to NOT do what it was intended.

Yes MAX is great with lots of plugins but all the good plugins cost money. Many of the ones you speak of do. So why blow $ on a program and have to need more $ on 3rd party software? It may be odd for me to say this since my training is based on AutoCAD and 3DStudio.

Originally posted by Hallock
I fail to see how 3DSMAX simply couldn't cut it, it can create organic models, it's the most superior program for materials and mechanical things, player models can be created and much more. Everything is 3DSMAX is the easy way. I can create what takes MS3D or XSI an hour to do in twenty minutes. XSI is not industry standard by any means at all, if someone was going to get serious about modelling you start with 3DSMAX. That is basically industry standard for gaming, and is a key tool in CG production for films. For the most part, they were looking for animation tools from XSI.

True that Max is a good starting point when it comes to serious 3D software but the article states that Valve wanted to pursue the avenue of 'convergence between Games and Cinema'. XSI at the time has the tools which could create the content required for such an avenue and not slow workflow. I dont work at Valve so I obviously cannot divulge the specifics of the code that XSI was needed for.

The problem I have with Max is it's follow technology. They always seem to be the last package to incorporate features that are already found on other 3D programs. It wasnt till Max4 did they even take a stab at a half decent native renderer and not until the recently released 5 did they begin to add global illumination (half assed as it is). The newest version 6 is scheduled for release sometime in the near future but I honestly still dont see any real improvements other than the integration of some 3rd party plugins, 'putzing' around with the UI and the adding of HDRI support.

So yes. Buy max if you want to keep making old games like Halflife 1, Quake1-3, and Dungeon Siege. The software will be an asset but its all on how you use it. The best thing is to not stop learning software and be flexible to new ideas and technology. Then people will hire you.

Rock, the rendering system in MAX is God compared to all other programs, people who don't know how to use it expect it to automatically make things look great. Not at all, you are expected to actually set up your own lighting. People who want to not have to deal with that can just go get Brazil or the Global Illumination plugin. If you look at modelling tools, one tool always has something the other doesn't, so you can't really say, "This one has it but this one doesn't," it could be a copywritten part of the other program they can't use.

Originally posted by Sgt_Rock
So yes. Buy max if you want to keep making old games like Halflife 1, Quake1-3, and Dungeon Siege. The software will be an asset but its all on how you use it. The best thing is to not stop learning software and be flexible to new ideas and technology. Then people will hire you.

This is a pretty ignorant comment considering MAX is a generic piece of film editing for adding many things. Movies such as Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, Shrek, A Bug's Life, Toy Story and many others were made mostly with 3DSMAX and MAYA. I agree you shouldn't stop learning modelling programs, but if you don't learn the base programs that you will be taught and are already expected to know things about, you're going to be screwed.

3D Studio Max is great. Many great modellers have used that program. If you learn 3d Studio Max, you will be able to learn Maya or XSI easier. I haven't used XSI, but I use Maya now. From what I have heard, XSI can be a ***** to use sometimes (as it is about 3 years behind Maya, it's just starting to catch up to Maya). If you're thinking of making character models, I suggest Maya or Max. But if you have a never-ending budget I would probably go for Maya. Otherwise I would get Max.

Seems like Rock is on a crusade to convert people to XSI......

I know it's not part of your question but i use lightwave. http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/index.php

Originally posted by [R5]Rainbow_Phive
Seems like Rock is on a crusade to convert people to XSI......

Rock, this all comes down to if you want to get into the:

Film Industry - You're looking major knowledge and experience of 3DSMAX and MAYA, you'll be using lots of 3DSMAX plugins and non-shelfed products that are based off of MAX.

Gaming Industry - Rhino 3D, 3DSMAX, Maya, are all acceptable forms of learning. You learn the base before you move on. I would never suggest telling people to build the Eiffel tower before I asked them to build a simple cup. You can't go anywhere right now and have a gaming company go, "What? You don't have experience in this single far outreached program called XSI?"

Engineering - CAD mostly, applications of CAD in MAX, etc. I'm not aware of any CAD support in XSI.

CG Art - Generally speaking, 3DSMAX and Maya are much more versatile than all of what is out there, Rhino 3D is also quite good.

Wow ... I guess being in the buis for the last 6 years doesnt account for sh*t anymore.

Well, I've been in it for five years unproffesionally, and I'm telling you about people I know who are in, "The bidness."

You can't take classes in XSI, you can't go somewhere to learn about it except on your own. It's not a recognized program at most 3D institutes, the program is not what you should be using to start with, if at all.


And if you model, why don't you do anything here?

Originally posted by Sgt_Rock
Wow ... I guess being in the buis for the last 6 years doesnt account for sh*t anymore.


Now now...I thought moderators aren't supposed to go out of control?



Oh btw Hallock, at CDIS college over here, they teach XSI. :D

I still think Maya and Max are great products. But I'm biased as I haven't used XSI before.

I used XSI once a little while ago, it was inferior. Phive, some of the 3D modelling schools I've looked into and game creation schools don't have it. If you like Maya, you should come where I live, Alias|Wavefront has an office about three blocks away, they teach Maya, sell their products, etc. I've considered taking classes there, but they were hefty.

NO Way! That'd be sweet :D

i make pics in photoshop

Originally posted by gmow
i make pics in photoshop

Wow, thanks for that deep, deep comment.