Imagine a marathoner running in a competition... Maybe he is not winning, but he is clearly making his personal record. The goal-line is just up ahaed. He already feels the releaf. But few meters before the goal-line, the marathoner crashes into an invisible wall. He gets up and examins the situation. There indeed is an invisible wall, inpenetrable. He tries to get round it, over it, under it, but nothing works. He is stuck few meters before the finish.

He has come all this way. He can't just give up now because of some irrational obstacle. Everybody who is watching him understand that there is this invisible wall infront of him, but nobody can help him. After hours the guy is still there. Trying desperately to find a way to reach the goal. He and everybody watchimg him, knows that he can run the full 42km, but the work is still uncomplete. Should the man just give up and go home?


What the hell was that, you ask?Imagine yourselves as that marathoner and then imagine the marathon as the greatest map you have ever created.

I'm getting sick and tired of mapping because I am that marathoner. For months I have been working on my map and now that it should be complete, I have a flaw in it - an irrational flaw. I have tried everything. I have asked for help here, and even received some, but none of those ideas worked either. The morning I was writing this, I got an idea, which could work. I tried it and my hopes were high. But for nothing, the same flaw remains. The best part is that there is no reason for it not to work.

I've said this earlier, but I'll say it once again... it's like this:

I have two 88-cannons in the map. Once the allies destroy them both, their spawns advance and there is a little ambience relevant to it. Both cannons are dod_capture_areas which are triggered only with tnt and capturing the areas triggers a multi_manager in both. all THAT works perfectly.

For the rest, I tried this at first:

the multi_managers which are triggered when the cannons are destroyed, both target a multisource. That multisource targets a multi_manager, which targets some ambience and two env_states that are masters for the spawn points. I tried out the map and it worked just like it should. I completed the objective and played the second round in the map. In the second round, after destroying both cannons, I was shocked to see that nothing happened. The destruction of the cannons worked just as it should, but the multi_manager which controlled the env_states, was not triggered. After some snooping, I found out that in the further rounds, the multi_manager is triggered only if the two cannons are destroyed in the same order as in the first round. I can only assume that the problem is the multisource entity.

Nothing to worry about... I'll just try something new to make it work. This was my next attempt:

Fellows at this forum also noted that the multisource might not be reseting properly. As suggested, I tried to reset it with trigger_auto. It had no effect, the problem remained.

Then there was an idea on how to do it without the env_states:

With a help from dod_point_relay I made the multisource trigger a hidden flag that is the master flag for the spawns. The problem was still exactly the same as before. So the problem had to be the multisource.

Days passed and then I came up with this idea:

I grouped the two 88-cannon flags and made a dod_control_point_master for that group. That entity triggered the multi_manager, which triggered the ambience and the env_states that are masters for the spawns. I tried it out, and there was some progress. First round worked perfectly again, but the second round didn't work at all this time, no matter in which order the cannons were destroyed. In the further rounds destroying the two cannons did nothing again. The multi_manager was not triggered.

And now I am writing this desperate post. I have tried everything my skills allow me to and I have learned the purpose of a few entities while struggling, but the fight has gotten me nowhere.

So for the last time I am asking for your help. Just if anyone has got ANY ideas on how to make the damn thing work. It HAS to be possible.

I've never used the multisource so i can't help with that...but consider this: use counters. After the first cannon is blown send a call to a counter entity...after the second cannon is blown send another call to the counter...the counter is set to target whatever you use to move the spawns at the count of two...then make sure after the round completes that you set the counter back to 0 (should take two entities...the counter and a reset counter or something...I don't have hammer at work or I could be more specific)

game_counter_set is the entity you're looking for FD.

Tiberian: I explained the method FuzzDad is talking about in one of your previous threads, I guess you didn't see it :/

yeah I didnt see you try using game_counter_set. that could be your god send. with the entity you can count up to certain ammounts. and trigger events at that time. It may be tricky to reset but if you make usre you set it 0 again at the start of each round it should work.

'it should work'

Have I heard that before in my head?

Yeah, big surprise - I tried it with the counters and it only worked in the first round again...

Since this is my first time using counters, I am concidering the possibility that I did something wrong. Here is my system:

Both the 88-cannons target the game_counter when destroyed. It has the 'initial value' set to 0 and 'limit value' set to 2 (since there are two cannons that need to be destroyed. The game_counter targets the multi_manager, which activates all the ambience and spawns.

I guess all that works, because the whole stuff works in the first round.

Here is what I made to reset the game_counter in every round:

I have a trigger_auto with these properties...
'target = counter_set' (original name for game_counter_set entity)
'delay before trigger = 1'
'trigger state = on' (this looks like a guilty property... maybe this causes the problem?)
flags: "trigger at every round reset" is checked

then there is the game_counter_set (name = counter_set) which targets the game_counter
the 'new value' is set to 0

Did I do something wrong?

have you run thu it with Developer 3/DEV 3, so you can see what the entitys are doing as they fire?

This is just getting weirder and weirder...

I checked it with developer 3 and as it turned out, the multi_manager for the advancing spawns does indeed fire in the second round as well after destroying the two cannons.

The strange part is that the multi_manager does nothing that second time. It should trigger a game_text, ambient_generic, and two env_states.

Could there be an explanation in the multi_manager's flags?

multi manager really is just a check. you can trigger multiple entitys without using it. If thats what causing your problems try remvoing it.

How can multiple entities be triggered without a multi_manager ?

You simply give them the same name and target that name...