[WIP] dod_caen_b1


etfninja
12-20-2007, 03:22 PM
I felt I needed to start my own thread because the old one was getting very full.

For older screenshots please check the other thread pages 11 to 15

page 11 (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69586&page=11)
page 12 (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69586&page=12)
page 14 (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69586&page=14)
page 15 (http://www.dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69586&page=15)

Here are some new pictures of my current work

Added roofs to the buildings in plaza
http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020001.jpg

Starting to add telephone wires in the allied base, and allied first
http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020002.jpg

Allied Building At the First flag across from Corner cafe
http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020004.jpg

Allied First flag and buildings around it
http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020005.jpg

Starting to detail Axis 2nd looking towards axis first
http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020008.jpg

Axis second (w/ still more to do)
http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020009.jpg

Axis second looking at plaza
http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020011.jpg

What needs to be done?

Telephone poles/wires everywhere
Axis Base needs detailed
Fire alley needs to be completed
5 or 6 buildings need detailed inside
More work on axis first to second
Small glitches everywhere
Hinting brushes
Clipping Brushes


Question: How can I make the electric wire in Electric Alley Hurt a Player?


As always give me suggestions, questions or things that bother you or look weird. I will try to fix it.

Mr-Softy
12-20-2007, 03:31 PM
omg that looks awesome :O nice one!

Trp. Jed
12-20-2007, 04:20 PM
I really like what you've done so far and the fact you've stayed very true to the original, but there is one thing that irrates me with all custom maps and thats lack of thought/realism in structural damage and debris.

I find this hole (http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020004.jpg) fairly realistic, although a timber framed building would be unlikely to have a brick inner wall and you can see from that picture that the outer "skin" means that those big oak beams are only a couple of inches thick!

The rubble in this pictures (http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020002.jpg) doesn't make any sense. Where did it come from? Its piled in the middle of the street yet the buildings on either side are completely undamaged! If you look at pictures of real damaged cities you find that walls have collapsed at formed piles of debris at the base of the collapse. There are no neat piles of rubble 8 feet from the wall in the middle of the street. Streets were also usually kept clear to aid the movement of vehicles so likewise, those piles of rubble would of been pushed to the sides - unless of course you want a "just bombed" city.

Likewise, I know you're trying to retain the feel of the original Caen but where on earth did these walls come from? (http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020005.jpg). By all means, if you need an object there for cover or to deploy a weapon on, use something more natural like an upturned cart or a car.

I think you've done a really good job capturing the layout of the original but its too much like the original - you need to evolve it a bit and really tighten up the environment.

Burns [8th ID]
12-20-2007, 04:55 PM
I really like what you've done so far and the fact you've stayed very true to the original, but there is one thing that irrates me with all custom maps and thats lack of thought/realism in structural damage and debris.

I find this hole (http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020004.jpg) fairly realistic, although a timber framed building would be unlikely to have a brick inner wall and you can see from that picture that the outer "skin" means that those big oak beams are only a couple of inches thick!

The rubble in this pictures (http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020002.jpg) doesn't make any sense. Where did it come from? Its piled in the middle of the street yet the buildings on either side are completely undamaged! If you look at pictures of real damaged cities you find that walls have collapsed at formed piles of debris at the base of the collapse. There are no neat piles of rubble 8 feet from the wall in the middle of the street. Streets were also usually kept clear to aid the movement of vehicles so likewise, those piles of rubble would of been pushed to the sides - unless of course you want a "just bombed" city.

Likewise, I know you're trying to retain the feel of the original Caen but where on earth did these walls come from? (http://clanetf.com/caen/3/dod_caen_b020005.jpg). By all means, if you need an object there for cover or to deploy a weapon on, use something more natural like an upturned cart or a car.

I think you've done a really good job capturing the layout of the original but its too much like the original - you need to evolve it a bit and really tighten up the environment.

I agree with Trp. Jed here. It's looking great but it needs to be a little bit more realistic looking. Rubble piles didn't just show up in the middle of streets. One thing you could do is make it look like it was an area hit by bombings and make a lot of the buildings look bombed out and collapsed with the rubble pouring out the windows of a destroyed building that collapsed. You could also add turned over cars or military trucks. I don't know if you've seen these yet, but pedroleum realesed a lot of good models that you could consider using in this map. Go to the models forum to look for these.

And as for the wire in the electric ally, add a trigger brush to the area you want them to get hurt at when they touch it, tie it to an enity, and make it a trigger_hurt. Once you do this you can set the hurt options from the list it gives you.

Hope this helps. Other than the rubble in the wide open, this looks absolutly fantastic.

Cpl. Punishment
12-20-2007, 06:36 PM
Question: How can I make the electric wire in Electric Alley Hurt a Player?


As always give me suggestions, questions or things that bother you or look weird. I will try to fix it.

A trigger_hurt entity. You can set the damage to electricity to make it seem more realistic. You may also need an env_sprite for a spark, and you can probably make the wire jump around somehow (but I don't know the exact entity for that... sorry).

In the fourth picture, of the Allied first flag, the two models of broken buildings look really out of place where they are. I don't know if you can fix that by adding more debris and detritus, but as they are, it doesn't make sense.

Fozzy the bear
12-21-2007, 01:56 AM
I remember looking at Goodwood and thinking this chain linked fence looks to HL2ish or modern, even though I know they had chain linked fences in the 40s.

Ol' Noodle Head
12-21-2007, 07:55 AM
By all means, if you need an object there for cover or to deploy a weapon on, use something more natural like an upturned cart or a car.
If you go with a cart, please use something besides the overused, Omnipresent DoD Wagon. Surgeon made a great model, it begs to be used.

I'm very excited to see this map developing so faithfully. It's going to be fun! Listen to Jed, though. Some of the things that made sense for the map back then don't make a hill of beans of sense in Source. Thanks again for your work!

Woutsie
12-21-2007, 09:45 AM
Nice one

STEVEN SEAGAL
12-21-2007, 01:44 PM
I think you've done a really good job capturing the layout of the original but its too much like the original - you need to evolve it a bit and really tighten up the environment.[/QUOTE]

I like how itís close to the original. I wouldnít stray to far from it. Avalanche and Anzio source are pretty much six and one half dozen of the original, and they have been successful. The orange building and red brick textures make me feel right at home. All we need now is some tanks at the flags ;) jk, but this map has been around throughout the entire life of DOD, I donít understand why it never made it to retail :mad: but thank god we have etfninja!!!:D

Guyver
12-21-2007, 05:48 PM
I like it, but I agree with Jed. :)

etfninja
12-22-2007, 10:52 AM
Jed those things you mentioned are pretty much placements from the old caen. I am still working on that a bit and I will be changing them by destroying that building a bit. But I definatly see where you are coming from.

I appreciate pointing that out so I can fix that.

-ninja

hydeph
12-28-2007, 01:53 PM
I think the scale is way off, some buildings seem to be 1/3 of their original size, corridors and streets seem cramped, and bombed out buildings look huge.

The center area of combat is utterly too narrow and short.

try playing caen, realize some of it's many limitations and expand on it using Source's full capabilities.

Wile E Coyote
12-28-2007, 04:41 PM
I LOVE I LOVE I LOVE YOU
I MEAN IT.

And yes listen to Jed. Keep the layout. Disguise things to look like they are there for a reason/ random chance - not put there intentionally just for gameplay purposes. It's Source baby, put it to good use! :D

Cpl. Punishment
12-28-2007, 04:59 PM
I think the scale is way off, some buildings seem to be 1/3 of their original size, corridors and streets seem cramped, and bombed out buildings look huge.

The center area of combat is utterly too narrow and short.

try playing caen, realize some of it's many limitations and expand on it using Source's full capabilities.

Most, if not all, Source maps are slightly scaled down from their original incarnations. I don't care if the streets are two units wide if the map plays well. And it looks like it is going to be awesome.

Wile E Coyote
12-28-2007, 05:34 PM
I think the scale is way off, some buildings seem to be 1/3 of their original size, corridors and streets seem cramped, and bombed out buildings look huge.

The center area of combat is utterly too narrow and short.

try playing caen, realize some of it's many limitations and expand on it using Source's full capabilities.I played caen for years; this scale seems dead-on to me. It's remakes like goodwood that are way too wide and big.

NotAgOat
12-28-2007, 07:00 PM
Seriously awesome work, but like everyone said already, the two random walls needs work. I can't wait for a beta/release.

Guyver
12-28-2007, 07:27 PM
I don't know if it was mentioned in the "Caen for Source" topic, but will this map have TNT spots, ninja?

EDIT:

and set some exploding walls

That means TNT, right?

Im CruNk
12-28-2007, 10:03 PM
yo cant wait for this ****t, made an account just to give props on the re make!

etfninja
01-02-2008, 01:55 PM
Guyver -- Yes there will be all original tnt spots and hopefully all original blow up areas from rockets.

Im Crunk -- Glad you are excited. Appreciate your support!

Guyver
01-02-2008, 08:14 PM
Guyver -- Yes there will be all original tnt spots and hopefully all original blow up areas from rockets.



Oooo...GREAT.:D

dobbles81
01-03-2008, 12:13 PM
I played caen for years; this scale seems dead-on to me. It's remakes like goodwood that are way too wide and big.

Goodwood should not be considered a Caen remake in my opinion. The game play is way off. Those alleys aren't alleys, they are narrow roads. Way off on the scale. Additionally, I think the map is visually unappealing. Its like playing the cal_coire map instead of the coire version that came out with CAMP. I would LOVE for this map to be finished. I hope when it is, it will get a few 24/7 servers for us Caen junkies.

Im CruNk
01-03-2008, 02:39 PM
Just my luck im getting sent back to work up north for next couple months... oh well atleast i have something to look forward to when i get home.

etfninja
01-12-2008, 12:17 AM
Well I got a chance to work on it for 2 or 3 days and here is whats new!

Not too much problems with the map except for prop_static models appearing black when rendering with lighting. I cant test it without compiling it with rad. An example is one of the windows on the apartments in the 7th screenshot. I have a couple props that do that in the church. It seems to happen when 2 or more brushes go through the model. I try to fix it by turning of shadows and shadow by vertex. But it doesn't always work. Does anyone know a sure fire way to fix this?

Allied base, (need to fix that black brush) I redid a couple buildings at the allied base and set them at 15 and 25 degree angles. You get to allied back alley through the building w/ the overhang. I need to add allied supplies
http://clanetf.com/caen/4/dod_caen_b020001.jpg

Walking out of allied base. Redid the bulding with the fire coming out, made it exposed woodwork with the smoke trail out.
http://clanetf.com/caen/4/dod_caen_b020002.jpg

Outside of allied base. I redid the alley way so you have to pass through the blown up building to get to allied back alley. Also cleaned up the rubble piles as someone asked me to.
http://clanetf.com/caen/4/dod_caen_b020003.jpg

Looking at the allied first. Made this building have exposed woodwork. You can get in there from the allied side. Touched up brush and displacements in the building across from it
http://clanetf.com/caen/4/dod_caen_b020004.jpg

Looking at allied 3rd. Replaced the windows in the first building, Added details to the cafe after it
http://clanetf.com/caen/4/dod_caen_b020005.jpg

Corner Cafe looking from allied 3rd
http://clanetf.com/caen/4/dod_caen_b020006.jpg

Looking at axis 1st and 2nd. I redid the blown up wall to look more realistic. removed a bit of the ground for a crater like appearace. Destroyed more of the apartment building infront of the church so more of it was visible.
http://clanetf.com/caen/4/dod_caen_b020007.jpg

Looking at axis 3rd from 2nd. Updated the look a bit, still need to add more rubble models
http://clanetf.com/caen/4/dod_caen_b020008.jpg

Starting the axis base. It will be castle wall themed with a bridge and water. I plan to destroy the buildings a bit as well as add rubble and german supplies. Lots more to be done here.
http://clanetf.com/caen/4/dod_caen_b020009.jpg

Axis 1st rubble building. Roof up ahead needs fixed. buildings in the distance need detailed.
http://clanetf.com/caen/4/dod_caen_b020010.jpg

View of axis church looking towards the base. I need to replace the wireframe windows with stain. Anyone know a good texture?
http://clanetf.com/caen/4/dod_caen_b020011.jpg

Guyver
01-12-2008, 01:24 AM
YAY.


It's lookin' SWEET. :)

Grippy
01-12-2008, 03:30 AM
If the origin of your prop_static is in a wall, it will appear black in-game.
So for black prop static, you must redefine the lighting origin with an
info_lighting.

To configure your prop_static to use an info_lighting, see the key value lightingorigin in properties.

For black wall, turn them in func_detail, or try to remake them.

Furyo
01-12-2008, 07:57 AM
That's not looking half bad at all, keep it up :)

R0ke
01-12-2008, 10:18 AM
it looks pretty good

Rolk
01-13-2008, 03:46 PM
Wow, looks really good! Pumped for it!

etfninja
01-14-2008, 01:24 PM
I have a problem. When I load dod_caen I can move though doors fine. I uploaded it to a deticated server to test and when you move through doors it has an echoing problem that makes the doors creek like in an autoloop almost. Note this only happens on a dedicated not when I load it on my computer.

I need to fix this because the doors are very loud and annoying. Could this be because of two rotating doors are named the same? Note all the movable doors are brushwork not models

thanks

GUNDY
01-23-2008, 01:46 PM
Any new updates?? I want to play this map!

Guyver
01-23-2008, 11:55 PM
Did you get the problems worked out, ninja?

etfninja
02-06-2008, 07:26 PM
Some small minor updates. Sorry for the long wait but I had alot of problems with my computer.

I would like to mention there will be a private beta testing to anyone who wants to play the map.

In saying that this, the beta test will only be for people willing to give DETAILED feedback in 3 or more sessions. In a couple days I will post a link to sign up!

I will need to test for errors, problems as well as a 5 v 5 and 10 v 10 to check for ping issues.

Here are the latest screens
http://clanetf.com/caen/5/dod_caen_b020000.jpg

http://clanetf.com/caen/5/dod_caen_b020001.jpg

http://clanetf.com/caen/5/dod_caen_b020002.jpg

http://clanetf.com/caen/5/dod_caen_b020003.jpg

http://clanetf.com/caen/5/dod_caen_b020004.jpg

http://clanetf.com/caen/5/dod_caen_b020005.jpg

http://clanetf.com/caen/5/dod_caen_b020006.jpg

http://clanetf.com/caen/5/dod_caen_b020007.jpg

http://clanetf.com/caen/5/dod_caen_b020008.jpg

Guyver
02-06-2008, 07:36 PM
Lookin' mighty fine. :)

Formologic23
02-06-2008, 07:36 PM
Cool, but can we post pics in link form so I don't have to keep scrolling down? Or thumbnail view?

Anything but these huge pictures.

ultranew_b
02-06-2008, 08:07 PM
Looks good ! Church is nice !

Streets (roads and sidewalks) need to be dirtier, seem too clean. Just adding a few rubble decals could make a big difference. Maybe some displacement rubble mounds as well.

I realize you could be just testing layout, etc.

DVD
02-06-2008, 08:31 PM
Looks good! You've got a nice base from which to work with.

How about a 3D skybox with trees and terrain? The city (in a couple screenshots) looks like it's surrounded by nothing. Also, if your streets are displacements, you should use the alpha blending tool to create some dark smudges to make it less clean, or just use decals like ultranew_b said.

AcidBurn
02-06-2008, 08:33 PM
nice work

but the thing that has turned me off about source from the begining is the same old maps we've all played a zillion times

Guyver
02-06-2008, 10:36 PM
nice work

but the thing that has turned me off about source from the begining is the same old maps we've all played a zillion times


That's correct in some cases, but not this one. There is a high demand for a true Caen remake for Source and that's what he's trying to do.

dobbles81
02-07-2008, 08:57 AM
That's correct in some cases, but not this one. There is a high demand for a true Caen remake for Source and that's what he's trying to do.

also, theres plenty of new maps out there in terms of the camp maps and they rarely get played. most people seem to love playing avalanche over and over and over.....

in terms of the map, i 2nd the notion that it looks too clean. as a non mapper, if thats something that waits until the end, my apologies, but the streets and stuff just have all these nice clean edges.

also, as i think about it, can i ask you mappers a question? are there no other sandbag models to use? i would love to see sandbags thrown around a little more 'crappily.' all we ever get is that nice stack thats like 3 foot high and 6 foot wide. it just seems so silly in these bomb ravaged landscapes that all these piles of sandbags still sit there perfectly.

Ol' Noodle Head
02-07-2008, 09:45 AM
Problem is, dobbles, we haven't had a lot of custom modellers and skinners, but a ton of mappers. So, we've been stuck with the bags we got.

AcidBurn
02-07-2008, 10:22 AM
wasnt meaning to put down his work
maps take a ton of work and time and i hope no one took my comment the wrong way

dobbles81
02-07-2008, 01:30 PM
Problem is, dobbles, we haven't had a lot of custom modellers and skinners, but a ton of mappers. So, we've been stuck with the bags we got.

gotcha. i can't complain as i am not smart enough to do any of it!

Cpl. Punishment
02-07-2008, 03:42 PM
in terms of the map, i 2nd the notion that it looks too clean. as a non mapper, if thats something that waits until the end, my apologies, but the streets and stuff just have all these nice clean edges.

To answer the other question, many people choose to wait until the end before they do the fine detail work. In some cases, people will release their first beta, and then decide to add more detail for the next version.

etfninja
02-07-2008, 05:07 PM
Its true, I haven't got to putting rubble and dirt in the "clean" area but I defiantly planned to.

As for modeling I tryed for a solid week to make a basic model and the texturing and conversion was just to much for me to handle.

I have very very high water indices aka T-juncs number so I am probably going to spend a couple days optimizing some of my complex brushwork.

I found a good link that explains it, I just wonder why this isn't included in any optimization guides. It seems like it can be a big problem.

Check the post by Demented (http://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?a=viewthread&b=4989&t=443,1143827248,11534&s=0&id=974951)
Something that he doesnt mention is that you can use mat_wireframe 1 to see these "water indices/T-Junc" lines in dods.

I have one question. Is there a way to compile without textures so that I can see the wireframe easier?

Sly Assassin
02-08-2008, 02:09 AM
Nice work, I'm loving the church it's a work of a master ;)

In reply to your question, I don't think there is away to compile without textures persay, you could always copy your current map and make a placbo texture of black or white or something that would make the wireframe stand out more and coat all your buildings in it.

Also when doing your rubble, make sure to make sure of the rubble models and set a low render distance on them (I'm sure you know this already) this way it'll add that 'destroyed' feel to the piles.

etfninja
02-09-2008, 04:15 PM
I posted some new stuff at the new dod forums if you want to check it out. Imma miss these forums. The new ones are so dark :(

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651972

Beta Testing Will be covered at my clans website Legendarygamers.net (http://www.legendarygamers.net/) I will be posting more info on beta testing there soon, as well as the new forums.

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