Here it is, the first beta release of dod_ludendorff.

This map is based on the events on the 7th of March 1945 in Germany. Where an advance unit of the 9th U.S. Armored Division, reached the last intact bridge (over the Rhine), just after the German defenders twice failed in their demolition attempts.

Your goal is to capture the bridge at Remagen, by controling the 5 flags.

Download (9 Mb zip-file):
http://www.langal.dk/gl/html/news/ludendorff/dod_ludendorff_b1.zip

See screenshots here:
http://www.langal.dk/gl/html/news/ludendorff/screens.php

If you wanna run it on your server, please let us know so we can play along and be there for your feedback.

This map is created by two danish first timers, MadMilo and Hintzmann.

When you find the bugs or have any comments please lets us know and post 'em below.

Have fun :-D

www.langal.dk

I'll set up a playtest for you at 3pm Eastern, on our main server:


8.9.5.30:27015 -|UPA|- Gaming Network


I will also have the map running on our Competitive server, for those of you who cannot get onto the Pub:

69.16.210.39:27015 -|UPA|- Competitive Teamplay Server


EDIT: It was a success, and I will post some feedback once I hear from more of my clanmembers. Nice map!

Haven't played it, but from the screen shots I think the fog could be changed. I like that you can't see really far, but its fade is unrealistic. Make the "start" much closer to the player so the fade is more gradual.

He needs the fade to handle fps. Ok...brilliant concept and I think it'll work if snipers are limited and you work on a few other things:

1) You really should clip the bridge support superstructure...combat up there is more unreal-like than DoD.
2) I like how you did the allied spawn w/drop off so no axis can get near the spawn. I think you need something similar for axis spawn
3) The water are is so huge and the area surrounding it is large as well...it really doesn't add much to gameplay considering all the action is on the bridge or just under the bridge. I'm not advocating making that area inaccessible but gameplay needs to be really tested.
4) Speaking of water...I like the river flow (is that the right way it flows?) but you should probably do something to alert players that they're going to die eventually...that and there's an advantage for the allies...you can go out on the bridge or the right-side busted pier, jump into the water and make that barge and use it as a sniping platform...do something similar for axis.
5) I fear the attacking team will do this: Cap all the flags but the last flag and then use snipers and MG's to just continually kill people as they spawn...you can also hurl rifle nades directly into each spawn area. Consider the houses as spawn points for the allies and put some cover in the tunnel (like a train or something) for the axis.
6) Increase the lighting in each tower so you don't have to use a flashlight to see around...and I think those towers will be used to spawn-camp the crap out of each spawn...you might actually consider making those off-limits to all players. That would help with fps (which wasn't bad considering all the water and the long lines of sight).
7) Axis side at point where you hit the actual bridge...there's a gap between the ground behind it and the bridge (go prone to the left of the sandbags and look to your right)...the displacment terrain isn't low enough (near the sign about the map being a beta map). Those bags are also slightly in the air (you seem to have placed a lot of your models a unit or two above the ground).
8) The fog in the map itself needs to be matched to the skybox fog so the distance at which the bridge fades out so does the skybox behind it. (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/lude1.jpg)
9) Most of the driftwood on the beach is hovering upwards of three feet into the air.
10) There seems to be a movement penalty on the mud flats next to the water.
11) Axis side, right side near water...the stone wall which goes into the skybox is floating (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/lude2.jpg)
12) Same side...but up on the road...you can get stuck between the stone wall and the bushes just at the point where the base of the felled tree is (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/lude3.jpg)
13 Allied right side on the edges...the detail texture on the grass is used for skyboxes...look carefully and you'll see minature tree's instead of grass and bushes. Given you really can't see the grass in that area (unless you noclip) you should just not have any because it adds to performance issues.

The more I think about it...you should just make the beach area and the water off-limits. Very few combat soldiers could survive a water fall from a bridge of that size, there's nothing tactical about swimming because the water current pushes you away from teh bridge. It's also a HUGE map so all that area down there will be places for snipers to camp. I'd put a barrier to keep people off the water and then put a kill brush over it.

kinda reminds me of the bridge in hl2.....


Especially this pic http://www.langal.dk/gl/html/news/ludendorff/04.html

Originally posted by FuzzDad
He needs the fade to handle fps.

I know pulling the end back would allow more visibility and make fps worse, but what about moving the start closer? It seems like all it would do is add more depth to the hundred feet or so in front of you (in real life fog starts at 0 distance, your eyes). That is, unless the actual fog is hard to render, but I don't know much about that.

Yea...he could do that instead of the abrupt cutoff...that and match the fog in-game to the skybox so you don't havethis:

http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/lude1.jpg

the screens looks good for me , downloading now
agree with all criticism

I love it, snipers make it no fun though, but I was having a good time with my M1 picking off shadows. When theirs no snipers its awesome.

a map this big demands 32 spawn points.

The [FON] guys love the map...heck some of them even liked it just the way it was. =)

Reminds of dod_brume...

Anyway, I think Fuzz pretty much stated it all...keep up the good work!

looks interesting, I'll give it a peek, thanks.

its running on our server.

we gonna test the map later on


greets cos

Looks promising from the screenshots, like the bridge textures a lot :) If you'd like to play it on a UK server we'll be hosting it as part of our map rotation on:-

82.138.242.217:27036

Any feedback I have will be posted here.

[MrDoDS] www.themrmen.net

First off all we want to say thank to all of you who have this map up and running for play test on your servers. And damm Bocasean you are fast, 12 min after we were posting you wrote and within a half hour the map was up and running.

And FuzzDad you are not slow either and it is really really really great feedback you have given us. Thanks for the feedback to all of you.
My buddy and I will discuss the feedback and return soon with some response.
But keep the feedback coming.

I the mean time we have a lot of question for you. Some have been answered. But what do you think?
How is the game play? Is it good or bad? Is it equal for both teams?

The Cap-areas … too many, too few, are they placed right, numbers of players to cap, time to cap etc.
Is this a sniper map (we hope not), and if so what can be done?
FPS are they okay or bad?

Anyone knows how many spawn points on the map? I have two 32 players servers. It gets ugly when half of them sit in the spawn can't join the game.

Please advise...

Thanks, Kurt

The map got 24 spawn points.
:)

running on our server :) (with snipers removed)

195.242.236.134:27015 !! INX-Gaming.co.uk >> dodirectory.com - 66 Tick

Will include it in map pack #24 - probably out this weekend ;)

I can't even begin to understand why this map has 24 spawn points and not 32, especially considering it's huge size, I really hope that gets changed.

Also, I was wondering if it's possible to put a horizantal layer of fog just over the water, so that you couldn't see it unless you were below the bridge on the 2nd and 4th flag cap level? I don't know if that would help with peoples performance or not, just a thought.

Nice map (you came on our server last night ;) )

It would be even better if it supported 32 players, let everyone join in the fun....not getting stuck in the remaining spectator slots :rolleyes:

We only made 24 spawnpoints due to a total blunder (sorry),
it will be corrected i our next beta release.

Added to [SAS] Clan Source Servers

Originally posted by madmilo
We only made 24 spawnpoints due to a total blunder (sorry),
it will be corrected i our next beta release.

Ok, nice to hear that :D

Downloading now.

I have to say that the bridge looks really impressive. I've always wanted to make a map with a long bridge on it, and my only abortive attempt at mapping in Source used a bridge structure similar to yours. However, my bridge sucked; yours clearly doesn't. The bridge design is pretty realistic - did you use the original bridge at Remegen as your source material, or something else?

Thanks Billy Pilgrim.
Yes we got tons of drawings and pictures of the original bridge, and I have spent weeks measuring and rebuild the bridge three times. Unfortunately we had to cut the length of the bridge (to two thirds), and thats why we got a small deviation in the bridge pier area.

Good work! I'll check it out when I get back from work.

MadMilo and I have been talking about your realy good feedback, FuzzDad.
And here is our thoughts about it.

Originally posted by FuzzDad

1) You really should clip the bridge support superstructure...combat up there is more unreal-like than DoD.


We will not be cutting this way off, because this map doesn't realy have many ways around. But we agree it is not very dods. What we do not want, is a bunch of snipers sitting up there just to get a better KD. Now it has a penelthy of -20% health just to come up there. We may raise this to maybe -50%.
We do not think KD-freaks will pay this fee. Less players will go this way, with a higher fee. But we will not restrict this route. It should be accessible for a good team-player to go up there and take out other snipers or MG's.

We have also considered making a fall damage, so you cant jump out into the water from the top of the bridge without dieing. Also a fall damage from the bridge but not one that kills you. And free of charge if you jump out from the piers.


2) I like how you did the allied spawn w/drop off so no axis can get near the spawn. I think you need something similar for axis spawn


Good point, we will try and make the Axis spawn inaccessible for Allies.


3) The water are is so huge and the area surrounding it is large as well...it really doesn't add much to gameplay considering all the action is on the bridge or just under the bridge. I'm not advocating making that area inaccessible but gameplay needs to be really tested.


You are right the area doesn't bring much to game play. I have seen online that beginner players offen choose riffel or snipper and go out there. But they aren't realy helping the team. But i have also seen assault sneak up there and wait for the right moment to go capping the last flag. I don't think we will change anything about this issue.


4) Speaking of water...I like the river flow (is that the right way it flows?) but you should probably do something to alert players that they're going to die eventually...that and there's an advantage for the allies...you can go out on the bridge or the right-side busted pier, jump into the water and make that barge and use it as a sniping platform...do something similar for axis.


I don't know if it flows up or down the river :-(
I think the players will find out fast that this is a dangorous place. The sound from the river is realy large, and the river is pulling 'em. They will think twice next time they go there, but it is possible to swin acrose.
From the UPA we got an idea off making a small sandbar with a few bushes on the Axis side of the river. I think we will go with that.


5) I fear the attacking team will do this: Cap all the flags but the last flag and then use snipers and MG's to just continually kill people as they spawn...you can also hurl rifle nades directly into each spawn area. Consider the houses as spawn points for the allies and put some cover in the tunnel (like a train or something) for the axis.


Spawn in houses and cover in tunnel is a great idea. We will defently go with that. Maybe put an alternate route out of the spawn area.


6) Increase the lighting in each tower so you don't have to use a flashlight to see around...and I think those towers will be used to spawn-camp the crap out of each spawn...you might actually consider making those off-limits to all players. That would help with fps (which wasn't bad considering all the water and the long lines of sight).


More light in towers :-D
We could block off the windows in the towers point toward the spawn areas. This will help a little bit about spawn-camping.
But we do not consider making the towers off-limit.


7) Axis side at point where you hit the actual bridge...there's a gap between the ground behind it and the bridge (go prone to the left of the sandbags and look to your right)...the displacment terrain isn't low enough (near the sign about the map being a beta map). Those bags are also slightly in the air (you seem to have placed a lot of your models a unit or two above the ground).


This will be fixed.


8) The fog in the map itself needs to be matched to the skybox fog so the distance at which the bridge fades out so does the skybox behind it. (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/lude1.jpg)


This is most a problem when you are standing on the Axis side and look at the bridge.
We agree that it looks strange. We could change the color so it mached the skybox, but then you woulden't be able to see the mountain area in the skybox. Another solution is to make the hill in the skybox on the allies side bigger, although there wasn't a mountain on that side.

We havent desided on this one.


9) Most of the driftwood on the beach is hovering upwards of three feet into the air.


This will be fixed.


10) There seems to be a movement penalty on the mud flats next to the water.


Yeah, isn't it great :-D


11) Axis side, right side near water...the stone wall which goes into the skybox is floating (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/lude2.jpg)


This will be fixed.


12) Same side...but up on the road...you can get stuck between the stone wall and the bushes just at the point where the base of the felled tree is (http://mysite.verizon.net/warewind/images/lude3.jpg)


We will make it non-solid.


13 Allied right side on the edges...the detail texture on the grass is used for skyboxes...look carefully and you'll see minature tree's instead of grass and bushes. Given you really can't see the grass in that area (unless you noclip) you should just not have any because it adds to performance issues.


I can't see those mini-trees, maybe I'm just blind, but can you make a screenshot of this. We will of course fix this.


The more I think about it...you should just make the beach area and the water off-limits. Very few combat soldiers could survive a water fall from a bridge of that size, there's nothing tactical about swimming because the water current pushes you away from teh bridge. It's also a HUGE map so all that area down there will be places for snipers to camp. I'd put a barrier to keep people off the water and then put a kill brush over it.

Again this map doesn't have many routes, so we will not make the water and beach off-limit. But we will put a fall damage, when you jump into the water.
We will also lower the speed of the trigger_push in the water around the piers so it will be more easy to get up the ladders.
You are right about the area being a place for snipers to camp. Now they cant se much of whats going on up on the bridge, but they can easy clear of the piers. Maybe we should make it harder for those snipers and put some cover on the piers.

Thanks for your feedback FuzzDad, it means a lot.

Here are my suggestions:

- You could user a filter_activator_class to "hurt" snipers that try getting on to the support superstructure? Just an idea!

- It may be cool to put a func_illusionary white grainy "scrolling" texture underneath the water so it gives the illusion the water is flowing

- The water flowing sound is cool, but it gets louder in the spot where the ambient_generic is for no apparent reason! Maybe add a few ambient_generic's in different locations with slightly lower volumes to distribute the water sound a bit.

- The "wood" texture you have across the bridge is way too shiny, at least on my computer it is anyway. It just doesn't look right. I'm not sure if its just my computer borking up or if its the map (the texture should go shiny for DX9, I believe so DX7 and DX8 users won't see it as shiny)! If you put the following into a text file and save it as woodfloor8a.vmt or something in your materials directory it should sort it:

"LightmappedGeneric"
{
"$basetexture" "Wood/woodfloor008a"
"$surfaceprop" "wood"
"$bumpmap" "Wood/woodfloor008a_normal"
}


Everything else has been suggested already!

Keep up the good work, it is one hell of a map and I love it!! I can't wait for the future versions and see more maps from you guys. Its good to see some new and innovative content coming in to DoD: Source!

1) You can get on the super structure w/o hurt by jumping down from the tower.
2) In pubs people go up there, prone w/either kar or a sniper weapon, and pick people off as they come into view out of the fog. Players learn to move slowly across the bridge looking up and forward.
3) The few servers I played on became campfests and gameplay was really slow because they either had no sniper limits or they allowed a lot of people up on the superstructure.

I think the deal is...going up there is fun for the guy who goes up there but not fun for the guy getting whacked...so that guy then goes sniper class and tries to out-prone the other sniper(s) and soon, if not limited, you have 8x8 snipers and only a few guys capping flags.

My only real request is you keep game-playing the map. I like that you're thinking outside the normal DoD map structure and if you can make this work we'll have another type of map to play (which is all goodness).

This has become my favorite custom map, gameplay is fun, and I enjoy using the M1 alot.

If you add fall damage to the water jumpers, then you're exacerbating the camping sniper problem. The more harmless pathways we have available, the easier it is to counteract camping.

Please leave the water as is, sir!

Went down a storm on SAS last night, in fact made a couple of appearances during the evening as after the first extend (we only allow to extend once) on the next map ppl were starting votes to go back on to it.

Good mix of action as long as the server limits mg's and snipers, I like the way the middle flag can be capped from the serviceway under the main bridge road.

A warning to the team that an enemy has entered the towers near spawn would be nice, maybe not a trigger_hurt just sound a siren or something.

Anyways congrats on the map, my fps was about the same as any stock map (40-60 with a PCI-E ATI X800GTO2) although I'm not sure if you compiled this with HDR on but I would suggest you should try without.

As you all mentioned, there is two main problems with dod_ludendorff_b1:

1) people sniping on top of the super structure
2) spawn kill from the top of the enemy towers.

We have an idea to prevent too much sniping on the top of the super structure.
- How about a random strong wind pushing snipers down from the super structure?
Its good for the gameplay, it is realistic and it is fun. Almost like Kinder Surprise Eggs :-P
I don't know how to make it, but I will properly need a random timer calling every x min., a warning wind sound and one maybe two trigger_push.

We have another idea to prevent spawn killing from top of the enemy towers.
As you mentioned FuzzDad online people tend to "Cap all the flags but the last flag and then use snipers and MG's to just continually kill people as they spawn..."
I don't think people is evil spawn campers from hell.
But when they get to the enemies towers they have two choices,
either make a risky attempt to cap the area and revealing them self or try to hold back the enemy,
waiting until more of your team mates has arrieved.
In the real attack the 7th March 1945, Allies ran quickly for the two eastern towers on the Axis side and the cleaned out the towers, before moving on.
- How about making the two towers a part of the cap area?
If you are lucky to get into the enemys towers you either cap it or not.
If you start caping it, the towers is cleaned out of enemies.
If the enemy doesn't prevent you, the map is won within a few seconds.
If you don't start caping the towers or the enemy prevent you by entering the area, you have to clean out the towers.
To prevent making it to hard to defend the towers, the lower part of the tower shouldn't be a part of the cap area.

So the cap area could start of from the bridge floor and all the way up to the top of the towers.
Or just only include the part of the tower at the bridge floor.

- What do you think about these two ideas ?


By the way here is screenshots of the last two builds ... b100 and b101.
http://langal.dk/-ekstern/dod_ludendorff/ss/

IMO the "don't cap the last flag" tactic is a staple on most competitive servers because you get tick points for the flags AND you get a good k-d ratio. You really need to rethink allowing unfettered and direct-line-of-site into the spawns. You may have tested the game with friends who don't play that way but trust me...on pubs k-d is KING and as soon as one team can push the other they'll spawn-camp the crap out of the other team.

And...adding random wind pushes might seem like fun but in a MP game you don't EVER want to be killed by the map (only by other players). In this case it's understandable that a fall into the river off the bridge would hurt but if you allow access to the superstructure AND you put in random wind gusts you'll make more people mad than if you just didn't allow people up there.

I dont think making clearing the towers an objective would work as teams only use their own towers to get on to the structure of the bridge.

And to be honest I didnt have a problem with snipers on the bridge, just went on me belly under the trains or used the serviceway.

This map gets great comments every server I've seen it played on. Most comments are "wow, never would have thought that a straight path would be playable but this map pulls it off" usually some reference to the fog is made about as to 'why' the map works as good as it does. As a BAR I even had fun on this map. Nice work man, the bridge looks cool!!



Add some spawn protection and I think you'll make it 100% better.


Thanks for the cool map!

--Ozz

TO PREVENT SNIPING THE SPAWNS FROM THE TOP OF THE TOWERS

is easier than you think, you all are just trying to get too fancy with these new options available in HL2. :D You've forgotten good old fashioned mapping tricks

simply make the edge of the wall too high to look over into the spawn, and impossible to climb on. On the non-spawn side add a step or shelf for people to stand on to see over onto the bridge. Eliminate all windows on the towers that can look into the spawn side. Have soldiers spawn off the sides of the roads behind small hills OR inside buildings.

I played on a server where a sniper was actually getting inside the tug boat and then sniping people. I don't know if you want to allow this or not but it was a real pain in the ass.

I was just playing this a few hours with 12 vs 12. It was fun, but the map is just way too big. The bridge really needs to be about half its size in length. I realize you're going for historical accuracy, but you have to keep gameplay in mind. There were a lot of snipers too, not as effective as a lot of maps, but they still got annoying..and about half our guys were snipers, which hinders capping.

Everyone playing said they really liked it, so I think it'll be a good map if it can just be tweaked as far as the length of the bridge.

Even though its a good map, as big as it is..IMO, you really need a full server. If I was looking for a game and saw only 10 people on this map, I doubt I'd join, b/c half of them would be snipers, so there wouldnt be much action. Youd be walking forever and rarely seeing the enemy.


I realize you're trying to go for a hisorically correct bridge size, but IMO most people wont join this map with only a few playing. If you're worried about snipers sniping from one base to the other, use more fog.

Size of the bridge is fine, it's a good map because you need more players. On a pub having too many snipers would be a large problem, so why not just limit them to 2-3 people? I believe the map maker can modify class limitations within the map by themselves, and then the only way to change that would be a server side decision.

About the length of the bridge.
The bridge on the map is already one third shorter, than the real Ludendorff bridge.
The length of the bridge has been one of the biggest issues, during our planning of the map.
We know it's hugemungus, but it just would't be right if we cut it down further.
Comments on this issue, is of course still welcome.

Built-in class limits is certainly a interesting solution, but is it possible?
Does anyone know how to do that?
And if it's possible, what should the limits be?
Any suggestions?

To the rest of you, great feedback, we are already working hard on b2.
But please keep the feedback comming.

;-)

That's a whole 'nother subject, and everyone will disagree. I think a 2 sniper limit is perfectly reasonable but some people will throw a fit if you don't set it at 1 or even remove them all together.

Looking forward to playing this map...is a b2 close? Because I'd rather wait for that before recommending it to our server - if an update is in the pipe.

(btw, I'm a big fan of humongous maps :) good job on sticking to your vision)

We've had a playtest with a fairly full server and the map is not far off perfect if you ask me. Length of the bridge is not an issue, you've put enough obstacles on the bridge to break it up and keep it interesting. As for sniper limits, we find most custom maps suffer with the sniper class so we have it set to 0 for our custom map server. Fortunately for us we have admins around most of the time who can up the limit manually if required but we find that is rare. Forcing the sniper limit through the map is an option but shouldn't be a priority - maybe keeping them off the bridge supports for too long is more important at the moment.

Good work though guys, this is a map everyone is going to know about soon ;)

Originally posted by Ol' Noodle Head
btw, I'm a big fan of humongous maps :)[/B]

Me too :p

Thanks for the credit guys, it means a lot... and keeps us going.
Good thoughts about sniper limits, despite we still don't know how to do it (if we decide to limit snipers).
B2... well we are working on it, incorporate all your great ideas.
But a release date, I really can't give you. Within the next 30 days... that's all I can say.
We really want to avoid to many beta releases, so we are a bit cautious about this. ;-)

Okay I am sick of Teensy, Tiny maps when the game engine is capable of sooo much more. The size of this map is perfect! Gameplay issues need to be worked on, but so far I'm liking this take on the bridge at Remagen.

Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
TO PREVENT SNIPING THE SPAWNS FROM THE TOP OF THE TOWERS

is easier than you think, you all are just trying to get too fancy with these new options available in HL2. :D You've forgotten good old fashioned mapping tricks

simply make the edge of the wall too high to look over into the spawn, and impossible to climb on. On the non-spawn side add a step or shelf for people to stand on to see over onto the bridge. Eliminate all windows on the towers that can look into the spawn side. Have soldiers spawn off the sides of the roads behind small hills OR inside buildings.

What he said. Great map btw :D. I like the size of the bridge, but I wonder whether a better way to finish would be to move off the bridge and onto the bank. ie. place final flag on either side of bridge forcing teams to secure a bridgehead?

Originally posted by Wile E Coyote
The size of this map is perfect!


Only time will tell.


Walk..run..walk..more walking..see one enemy..die. repeat, repeat, repeat.

Were you on SAS Server 4 last night MadMilo?

If so thanks for the visit and sorry for shooting you off the axis second flag, hurts to be shot in your own map.

Congrats on the map m8, it is proving more popular then dods_dust and marijuana!

I certainly was, and I had a great time.
I'm being shot all the time on every map, so why not my own,
I'm a grow man, I can take it ;-)
Hintzmann and I are very thrilled, that you like the map.
Thanks!

Like it lots, anytime you want a server for playtesting, pop by our forums and pm me

www.sas-clan.inx-gaming.co.uk

This is the most poplar map on my server at the minute, which shows how well this was thought out for a first map.

Very popular on our server as well. We have a 32 player server and not everyone can play which causes problems, When is the next beta coming out with 32 players?

I have just played it on a server with snipers, and my entire team camped. It was my worst Dod experience ever....well, maybe not but it wasn´t fun...

It looks really nice, but with snipers, it is bloody unplayable. I will just stay away from it when it comes up on a server that allows snipers, and most do.

The problem is NOT the snipers. Snipers are part of the game.

The problem is the fact that most pubbers how no clue how to play the team game, and this map demands it. I just got done playing it on our server, and I was one of 2 snipers on my team. I was also only 1 of only 3 players who EVER made it past the center of the map.

It's not that it's hard to make it past....it's that most pubbers will NOT even bother trying. I made it past the center every single time, but by the time I made it all the way to the Axis 2nd, they had re-capped the center again. Then, by the time I made it to the Axis 1st, they had re-capped the 2nd again. The cycle repeated itself over and over and over again.

The map is tediously difficult on Pubs if one team (in this case, the Axis), is pushing ahead and another team is camping. In most maps, the distance between flags allows one or two guys to cap out, even if the rest of their team is horrible.

The size of this map and the distance between flags makes it very difficult to play without quality teamwork, which is hard to come by on a Pub. I don't know if it's possible, but I would consider making a smaller, easier Pub version and leave the excellent full-size one for competitive servers.

Just a thought.

Think making the middle cap take 2 players would help? Just an idea.

Originally posted by Bocasean

The size of this map and the distance between flags makes it very difficult to play without quality teamwork, which is hard to come by on a Pub. I don't know if it's possible, but I would consider making a smaller, easier Pub version and leave the excellent full-size one for competitive servers.

Just a thought.


Great idea!

Originally posted by Defpotec
Think making the middle cap take 2 players would help? Just an idea.

I think all the flags except the last ones should be double caps. Just make big cap zones. I hate it when people make really tiny caps so you barely can get two guys in there without blushing. I didnt react to that the cap zone were a bad size on this map, but then I didn´t get to cap more than the middle a bunch of time....

dod_ludendorff in beta 2 will be harder for snipers.
It will be easyer to atack and harder to defend.
It will reward teamwork and punish camping and inactivity.
You will see 32 spawn points, bigger spawn fields and 3 flags who requires two players to cap.
We hope some of these initiatives will move the gameplay in the right direction.
We are releasing b2 sooner than you can imagine.
;-)
Thanks for brilliant feedback guys, you are actual making dod_ludendorff better by every post you write in here.

Originally posted by Bocasean
It's not that it's hard to make it past....it's that most pubbers will NOT even bother trying..... In most maps, the distance between flags allows one or two guys to cap out, even if the rest of their team is horrible. No truer words were ever spoken. I still further believe that in many cases it is a question of "crossover" players - crossing over from Counter Strike, a game that although it has objectives is NOT completely objective-based. It's also half last-man-standing. Which of course has no place whatsoever in DOD, but of course that's the play style they are used to ;)

The beta 2 of dod_ludendorff has been released.
Please write your feedback here:
http://dayofdefeat.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63325