Has anyone noticed that the vast majority of maps out there take place in towns of some sort? I know that historically the battles took place in cities, but can't we be a bit more imaginitve? There's no installations (dod_bunker, I WANT IT!), rural fighting (para_hedgerow, I WANT IT! Waldo check your bloody PM's), or just plain new stuff (dod_festung). Cities are good, but it gets old. Can't we try and come up with some alternatives for city fighting? I am aware that there are a couple out there, dod_charlie, dod_flugplatz, and dod_stuka, but we need more. That's only 3 out of almost a hundred or more.

I CON CUR!

As do I. Hl loves corridors so I'm outstounded at the fact I have yet to see an internal bunker/castle map.

I think what we need is more historic maps, maybe if mappers took ideas from actual battles they could come up with new maps and not the same old city scene. I want to see maps like hedgerow too, been so long i can't even remember the map now and i wish it was on dod 1.0 so i could remember what it was like.

What I want and im sure others do are desert maps, like tobruk or gazala, or even kasterine pass, which should be simple to make.

Actually most of WW2 took place out of citys, its just that most major battles happen in cities, and i think they're just easier to make. And if you can show me some good desert textures, ill get to work on a desert map, but as of now they're all for the most part crap.

But for mostly close quarter maps like festung, i dont think DoD is realy meant to be played like that (come to think of it, festung is the only map that i can think of that is decent indoors). But you never know, im sure theres some mapping formula out there thats just waiting to be discovered and be a hit.

Yeah I agree totally I like variety in maps not just city after city. Small towns are ok. I loved para_hedgerow and dod_festung. Europe has a lot of small towns and little rural areas and those are fun when they incorperate country and a little town. THe pacific would be the ultimate outside map but I guess I'll have to wait for SoV, HL2, or MOH:RS.

I had actually made an internal castle only map, but got bored while I was making it.

dod_sicily and dod_radar :P

DoD can be fun in close quarters. Hell half the fun I've had on dod_dog1 is sneaking through the underground levels as an Allie and blasting whoever I can get. It's just a question of how well done the close quarters map is.

And yeah, there's more to variety than just military installations and bunkers (those are just my favorites). There's maps like Hegerow, Coldline, Hill, and Dam. And Afrika maps would be a lot of fun and damn cool. Plus for once the Allies would blend into everything and have the camo advantage. :D

Cheeto, you seem to have forgotten all about dod_forest...

We need more forest, rolling hills type of maps. For something realistic, Treelines with a few shallow foxholes not bunkers divided by some open spaces with lots of nice little ambush spots and blind areas to sneak up a toss a nade on someone. Log to hide behind, crawl areas for cover and concealment. Of course Teamwork would play an integral part in capping the map. Make flag caps two man minimum. So teams of guys would have to work together to cap the map.

Alot of the western European battles were fought in hedgerows, forests, small villages to capture etc. So some open spaces with a small village in the middle as the goal plus some flags on either side would represent a lot of combat. How about a dam or a mountain pass?

Something cold and snowy would work for the eastern front. But many more city battles were fought there. After freezing in the wide open spaces of the russian farmlands. Again capturing a village in the middle would be very representative.

P.S. I tried mapping and I sucked at it so no mas for me.

Except the problem is that HL isn't powerful enough to get those wide open spaces or uber-realistic forests. HL2 is, but we don't have that now.

True but it could be broken up with the tree lines and so forth. The dod_june11 map I believe seems like a really big map to me. And it could be a pretty good example. Less objectives in buildings and such. Add some foxholes some mortars and artillery strikes. I like the ideas in one of the threads about a snowy map. But you could do it in a fall or spring/summer look too.

Got a link to June11?

I like what Xerent did with dod_flash2 (I think that's what it was). He released a wad for each season so we could decide the time of year, and it didn't affect server comparions either. :D

I don't like forest, but i think it has potential, its like the first try the dod team at making a beach map, and they ended up with charlie. Forest has a town in it, a nice town at that but fighting will never happen there. The allied spawn is way to far from the front lines anyway and i hate having to walk the distance then get shot and walk again, thats my opinion anyway.

June11 a great map surprised me that it could be done, you can find it at houstondod.

As for a battle in a mountian pass that Yabanjin brought it, kaserine, i beleive i could be mistaked took part in or near a mountain pass only pictures iv seen look like its in a wide pass. Iv always wanted to do it but without good desert textures such as sand, cliffs, rocks its nearly impossible to do. For those that don't know kasrine pass was one of the first major battles between germans under the command of rommel against the allied forces in africa. Allies were decimated there.

Russian maps, did someone bring that up, lol I thought i read it well i don't feel like searchin for it so ill just say my mind, no use in makin one when theres no russian nation beleive me i want to but just wouldn't feel right, a stalingrad map would be awesome. A train track going across center of map, 2 industrial zones one on both sides of tracks, residential zones on another sector of the map and a small portion of a train station, some roads leading into town centers. Also a river at the russians spawn. Basically its what i can remember from the movie Enemy at the Gates.

Id like to see a large Church at the top off of a hill with a bombed out cemetery with mausoleums and caskets blown out of the ground on a rainy day dark Sky's spooky:D

without the church and not dark or any cemetarys and with some mud u could be talking about hamburger hill.

ZUZU, I've been meaning to ask... What is your obsession with the dead?

my map volonne (of 1.3b through 3.1 days) was a mostly non city. I would love to update it for 1.0, however my time of late is totally swamped with work and other projects. I wonder, has anyone tried to get it to work in 1.0 as ugly as it is? ;)

Does anybody remember dod_norway (http://www.dodmaps.com/reviews/dod_norway/REVIEW.HTM)? That was my favorite custom map for 1.3b, if only they would update it for 1.0.

There is, in fact, a trend towards maps of a non-city nature that's been going on since hedgerows, and it's seeing an acceleration:

we have dod_coldline
dod_forest
dod_campagne
dod_dayofdays
dod_valley
dod_stuka
dod_frad3
dod_hill_classic
dod_alostbu
dod_havok
dod_raate
dod_commando
Another secret one I happen to know

And I think I've forgotten some, but the point remains, more and more are coming out, and its definately a good thing. The problem is that creating huge outdoor areas just isn't feasable with the engine.

In any case, I too am a fan of the maps that don't take place in cities, and I hope they continue to be made. But most if not all of the above are good maps, so check them out.

Trigger: That site rox. Great reviews, reviewers, previews, everyone there is just plain cool. :D

Originally posted by Capt Winter
its like the first try the dod team at making a beach map, and they ended up with charlie.

errr NO

Yeah I was gonna quote that too...

Haven't you ever heard of Dog1, Omaha, and Overlord? 3 previously official maps.

Originally posted by Captain Higgins
ZUZU, I've been meaning to ask... What is your obsession with the dead?

90% of the time I play at night 11 to 1 or so west coast time so I use the skull head skins for ether axis or Allies spooky :D
I just got into it even as a kid I had a Munster's lunch box lol!!

Here are some ingame shots of the skins I use

GO HERE !!! (http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=12&uid=1054556&gid=2244846&)

Thats just stupid!

Theres some WIERD people on this forum. But if helps, you're not as wierd as that person who has the sig with a guy covered in blood. Thats just f**ked up.

But "The Munsters" was cool.

My initial creation of my hedgerow map, dod_campagne, (formerly known as dod_countryside, when the project was begun way back in March 2002) was a direct result of the multitude of city and town maps. Actually, come to think of it, I have never created a city/town map for DoD, even my earliest (unreleased, and never will be released because they suck) attempts at mapping for DoD took place in the countryside, mountains, rivers, et. al. My next project (if there is one) will certainly not be a city/town map.

I love this thread! Albeit a mapping n00b, my first real map that I am working on (10% ??) is a 5 flag map that is set in Western-Germany based on some post WWII (1955) photos that I have from my father-in-law that drove a tank for the US Army. I don't have a name (help??), but basic layout/theme is this:

A large space that is divided by a lower level valley/river. No crates/barrels, just nature and stuff you would find normally. Like there is not a big beefy concrete bridge, but a dock with a boat tied to it to get you across the river (stream, really). Lots of trees and bushes, dirt roads, animals, farm buildings, fields, hay, etc... Nothing blown up yet, but that urge is hard to fight!

One side of the valley is the edge of a forest. This is where the Allies are camped. This Allied camp side of the map contains a Allied camp flag and a Allied something-else flag (jeep / help?).

The other side of the valley contains a farm. This farm is being used by the Axis as a command post. The farmhouse contains that back flag. In the barn is an tank/88/whatever that is being stashed/used/whatever - that is the Axis 2nd flag.

So basically game play wise, Allied take over the farm or Axis push back the Allied assault.

From a mapping standpoint looks like the main challenge is to give a sense of open space while realistically obstructing your views. Example, how I deal with the river where it meets the side of the map is a challenge. I cannot simply but in a huge concrete bridge to obscure that view!

Anyway, I wanted to type this out just to see how it sounded.

Also, if you want to see some of the photos that are inspiring the design, see http://www.hoggettfarm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=576

Any 'lessons learned' on dealing with large open spaces will be highly appreciated.

those undead models are prettty cool, music was spooky too. :)

Originally posted by CptMuppet
Yeah I was gonna quote that too...

Haven't you ever heard of Dog1, Omaha, and Overlord? 3 previously official maps.

Yea sry what I meant was forest is as far to my knowledge the first forest map dod team has made, and i knew there were previous d day maps thats why i said first try at making d day map and they ended up with charlie, the point i was trying to make was, in my opinion hopefully dod team will make a better forest map sometime in the future, my messeage doesn't really make any sense now though. I know most people like it, like some people hated dog1. I liked dog1 though.

Originally posted by Whoopy42
Another secret one I happen to know


Hmm...He knows a secret map.. get him!

last year. we had the same discussion if I recall well. Too much town maps, not enuff open maps.

I did a project around a V2base (conveniently) named dod_v2base. it's a small V2base with some challenges. Axis defend, allies assault it and should blow stuff up. I released it at that time.

another map I liked but IMHO was pretty much underestimated was dod_bleakhill. The maker of that map made one large open space: the rocky side of a hill. The way he did it was unbelieveable. Altough it was a pretty heavy map to load.

I don't recall the name but I remember this one map that was like four small hills with some tanks, almost only open space. It didn't rock but it caught the eye of many a mapper back then.

PS: I like dod_forest. Lot's of people hate it. But I like the middle part the most: the one with the mortars. I had some great fights in that map.
PPS: I like dod_charlie too. But then again, I think the map is more allied biased. I think a big issue with open space is the balance: it's a lot harder to balance a map with open spaces then a map with confined hallways.

My next map and the one i am working on atm are not in cities...

dod_op.juno.
dod_SchneeGraben.

I'm working on some open styled maps atm, I'm making a series that starts off on a beach assault and leads on from there, so there will be hedggrow fights and so forth in later maps. I like the idea of fighting in areas that aren't just towns or cities.

Originally posted by Cheeto
Has anyone noticed that the vast majority of maps out there take place in towns of some sort?The answer is simple: it is easyer to do it in Hammer. 90° angles only.

But there are some good maps that are a mixture of coutryside and city: dod_glider and dod_flash for example. dod_verdun_b4 too. Trust me these maps need more work.
In fact we have the choice: city/countryside/mixture.
Too many city maps make the game boring. We need to be more creative. And not be afraid of the mass of work or the r_speeds.

[crazy plug] Ha Ha! Just wonder if we could make a map in HL2 containing dod_charlie + dod_dayofdays + dod_glider + dod_chemille, LOL. HL2? Yeah, I'm talking about something I did not even see :rolleyes: [/crazy plug]

I know that historically the battles took place in cities, but can't we be a bit more imaginitve?Only 40% of the fights in WWII took place in urban areas.

Originally posted by Mythic_Kruger
[crazy plug] Ha Ha! Just wonder if we could make a map in HL2 containing dod_charlie + dod_dayofdays + dod_glider + dod_chemille, LOL. HL2? Yeah, I'm talking about something I did not even see :rolleyes: [/crazy plug]



Not such a crazy idea, it could be done to some sort of extent, just making the tie in between the different landscapes on either maps and lighting etc would be the harder part.